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[notquitethere]

Flabort

NQT are you doing a compilation spreadsheet of reads again? Can you see anything interesting?

I haven't done the reads thing yet, but I've been looking at the votes.

Jim has been really sluggish with his voting, voting for the first time 50 minutes ago. Tiruin has yet to make a case or form a suspicion. I'd be looking to lynch/vigkill/investigate/etc. these two.

You and Wolf have drawn the most votes in the game, but some of those votes (judging by your reactions) could be distancing. The Pisswolf combo has the most posts in the game (followed shortly by UXLZ), which speaks well of them. That said, the only game I'd seen that's bucked the no-scum-post-most rule was a Paranormal game. Scripten is conventionally the least suspicious having managed to press the most cases. I'll have better stuff to go tomorrow.

I'm against lynching Deathsword right now, simply for the reason that your push on lynching him is based off of his replacement request.
Pisskop, again.

I think you're wilfully misinterpreting Pisskop here. I've just taken a look at some of Deathsword's other games and he very frequently replaces out (including replacing out as scum in both CYOM games). It wasn't hard to find out. Every game isn't entirely different, otherwise we wouldn't be able to talk about meta and scumtells and the like. There are patterns. We don't have to lynch Deathsword, but lynching Pisskop in a fit of pique after misinterpreting a PM is hardly the best way to proceed.


Cheeeeeetar

Situations in which I want him left alive: He's a war vet and claimed vigilante so scum target him.

Situations in which I don't want him left alive: He's a non-dopp vigilante who will at best die tonight anyway.

Both your situations he's town and will draw a scumkill. Uh, you realise it's a good thing for town to know who scum are most likely to target at night, right? What part of let's lynch a player who's most likely going to draw the scum kill makes any sense whatsoever???

So actually... unvote Flabort, vote Pisskop. He's canvassing for me to lynch somebody who is up for replacement due to an inability to post. He is doing this privately rather than publicly- the mere desire to lynch somebody purely because of inactivity is scummy, but so is the private 'hey guy lets go lynch this guy okay?'

Hold on a second. I don't read that as Pisskop asking you to lynch Deathsword. He wants your opinion about the matter. What unreasonable about that?


Pisskop

Since I'm here.
  Yes, the vig is better as the game gets older.  He has more power to end a life, but also sacrifices his usefulness and lets the game progress as it would have.  If he dies without using his power he'll be a sad panda.

  However.  He has a limited number of shots, usually, and can act as an investigator of sorts (in that the target dies and flips their role).

Have even you read the OP? Vigilantes get unlimited kills.


UXLZ

If we assume 4 scum and 3 third-party roles, a town vig (in a 16 player game) would have a 7/15 chance (purely statistical and assuming no D1 Lynch) chance of hitting the right target. I think their usefulness increases as the game goes on, and (this is purely hypothetical) if I was a town vig I'd probably wait a night or two to actually kill someone unless I was particularly suspicious, so as to avoid shooting the sheriff. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the role, though.

Their usefulness increases if we begin to get secondary lynch candidates. If you're unsure about the role, reread the OP. It's important to know what all the roles can do in this game.


Toly

TolyK, do you know who's playing this game?

Hey you: yeah you reading this. You're paying attention, that's pro-town. Send me a PM.

Hiding things in a wall of text might be a valid strategy, I'm not sure. Obviously, TolyK isn't actually playing, this is just a ploy of mine.


Deus

NQT: we gain more information from lynching someone other than flabort only if there are no other roles with a night kill in the game. If there are and flabort is just gambling that there are, they'd either have to not shoot anyone tonight in order to prevent him from claiming responsibility or out themselves on day two, which would benefit the scum a lot more that it would us.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here. You do know that killers have unique kill descriptions in Paranormal, right? A Dopp kill looks different to a Vig kill.


Flabort

Deathsword/Flabort, why are you voting Pisskop? Wolf's gambit might not have been as well executed as he'd like, but it does strike me as something a town-Wolf would have done. What did you hope to achieve in claiming vigilante.

I had hoped to gain some standing with the town, after I lost it all by being "underhanded", although I didn't try to be underhanded and didn't think I was being underhanded.
As far as why I'm voting him, see above.

Conventional mafia wisdom says that this was a bloody stupid thing for you to have attempted, but you might survive today so maybe it was worthwhile. What do you think of the difference between Pisskop and Wolf's play?[/b]


Tiruin
First a disclaimer: I think you're wonderful. A real cool kid. I'm not trying to be mean. We clear? OK, let's go:

Hmm, perhaps my tracing record has been lacking to you, hmm?
The # of posts is more due to RL things at the moment--I don't have the same level of activity before due to working on many other things (though well-organized) at the moment.

You seem to have misunderstood me here completely. I was implying that 16 was plenty of posts. Over twice my own number of posts. More than sufficient. My criticism was this: although you posted plenty, you hadn't done any serious scum hunting and you hadn't managed to vote anyone. This is scummy in my eyes. This is why I am voting you.

However, 'who is scummy' seems to poke me again on your attitude of wording things, NQT >_> Like many other times before. Though I guess its also sometimes my mindset. Because you do this when town or scum I:<
...You could just say 'who seems scummy to you'

These things are synonymous. To be scummy is to seem scummy.

    Cheetar -- leaning town, due to suggestion of a valid idea by which I cannot detect any fallibility in regards to it (unless we're playing Hivemind scenario...did this ever happen in a game with Dopps?)
    notquitethere -- :I Hard to read. Is NQT. Same standing with generally everyone else I didn't rank as 'leaning town' with paraphrasing.
    pisskop -- Uncertain. His demeanor is...very much pushing towards neutrality, as inferred by how he started the game as a replacement, and with the orientation of 'I saw what 4mask did', as well as having analyzed it given his initial attitude. I'm however leaning on giving him the benefit of the doubt, being a newbie. Relating my experiences with behavioral studies, it could also pertain to an innocent trying to 'fix up' what's wrong with how he saw the previous events, due to that past case of analyzing his predecessor. Further study is required.
    Jim Groovester -- ...Same as pisskop, but I need a re-read to refresh my radar.
    TheDarkStar -- ^
    Persus13 -- ^, however leaning town due to certain anomalies within his attitude pertaining to verbal and linguistic acuity. This matches with Toaster. His notation regarding flabort--which I consider is of significant mention pushes for further ideas on what is happening, instead of judging as is. Further study is required.
    Shakerag -- ...um. I'm unsure. He seems to be buddying with people, though not in the Mafia context of 'buddying', by that letter to Toaster?
    mastahcheese -- Leaning town. This is due to his attitude and manner of regarding others, as well as his posting habits (despite being busy IRL)
    ToonyMan -- same as above
    Deus Asmoth -- ^
    flabort -- Uncertain. His attitude is..awry, and very much contradictory at times. In reference to the earlier D1 event, its a strange case if he was scum with the intent of getting townpoints because of how his demeanor reacted to 4mask, but knowing the inbetween (ie RL idea as said before the game started in different threads...which could do with a bit of dealing with before playing...), my reads are pretty much modified after knowing that context.
    UXLZ -- Uncertain as the above, though partly leaning town due to how active he is--and not with why he's being active, but more on how he is...working with details at present. My parser of English requires further calibration, as does my radar here.
    Scripten -- On course of uncertain location. Requires calibration.
    Tiruin -- Hi! I'm town!
    Deathsword -- Uncertain reading. Requires calibration.
    Toaster -- Fuzzy read. Requires calibration.

So you didn't manage to find anyone that looked scummy. 7 town leaning players and the rest 'uncertain'. Interesting. You know who finds it difficult to suspect town players (AND/OR doesn't actually read the thread)? The mafia. That's who Tiruin. THE MAFIA. Why are you playing like the mafia Tiruin? WHY?

Also if the argument of 'why aren't you voting' comes up again--its the weekend and the extension happened. Just trying to put most things into organization here. <_<

I want your vote on my desk by the end of Monday.


Jim

Do you suspect Tiruin or are you pressuring her like your vote on ToonyMan?

You've moved your vote around a lot (or at the very least, enough for me to notice). Any clear suspects?

I was just pressuring Toony (though, like all such votes if he'd behaved too weirdly in light of the vote I'd have kept it and pressed harder), but Tiruin is genuinely scummy. Her follow-up post showed a classic scum sign with her complete inability to form suspicions. Also, I've made a grand total of... TWO votes. Toony and Tiruin. Having two votes isn't really 'a lot' now, is it?

[Cheeetar]

Cheeeeeetar

Situations in which I want him left alive: He's a war vet and claimed vigilante so scum target him.

Situations in which I don't want him left alive: He's a non-dopp vigilante who will at best die tonight anyway.

Both your situations he's town and will draw a scumkill. Uh, you realise it's a good thing for town to know who scum are most likely to target at night, right? What part of let's lynch a player who's most likely going to draw the scum kill makes any sense whatsoever???

Letting somebody live because they're a high priority target for a nightkill (assuming they're telling the truth) is not optimal, because it leaves open the possibility for scum to leave them alive to draw our suspicion to them, and they can also argue that they were left alive purely so scum would have an easy lynch the following day. At the time, I saw Flabort as the scummiest player, and I wasn't going to let his weird silly claim get in the way of my wanting to lynch him.

So actually... unvote Flabort, vote Pisskop. He's canvassing for me to lynch somebody who is up for replacement due to an inability to post. He is doing this privately rather than publicly- the mere desire to lynch somebody purely because of inactivity is scummy, but so is the private 'hey guy lets go lynch this guy okay?'

Hold on a second. I don't read that as Pisskop asking you to lynch Deathsword. He wants your opinion about the matter. What unreasonable about that?

If he wanted my opinion, he could ask me publicly. This kind of timid private 'would it be reasonable if I were to want to lynch this person? I'm not sure if that would be scummy or not and I don't want to reveal my alignment by the way I play' thing is very obviously scumplay to me.

[pisskop]

Cheeeeeetar

Situations in which I want him left alive: He's a war vet and claimed vigilante so scum target him.

Situations in which I don't want him left alive: He's a non-dopp vigilante who will at best die tonight anyway.

Both your situations he's town and will draw a scumkill. Uh, you realise it's a good thing for town to know who scum are most likely to target at night, right? What part of let's lynch a player who's most likely going to draw the scum kill makes any sense whatsoever???

Letting somebody live because they're a high priority target for a nightkill (assuming they're telling the truth) is not optimal, because it leaves open the possibility for scum to leave them alive to draw our suspicion to them, and they can also argue that they were left alive purely so scum would have an easy lynch the following day. At the time, I saw Flabort as the scummiest player, and I wasn't going to let his weird silly claim get in the way of my wanting to lynch him.

Nonsense.  We dictate who he kills, and we pick another choice.  We can even elect two people to send him a private message and one of those two best be dead tomorrow.  There are many ways to ensure we get our vig shot (multiple, as pointed out above) without it being anything less than a complication.  Even moreso with PMs

So actually... unvote Flabort, vote Pisskop. He's canvassing for me to lynch somebody who is up for replacement due to an inability to post. He is doing this privately rather than publicly- the mere desire to lynch somebody purely because of inactivity is scummy, but so is the private 'hey guy lets go lynch this guy okay?'

Hold on a second. I don't read that as Pisskop asking you to lynch Deathsword. He wants your opinion about the matter. What unreasonable about that?

If he wanted my opinion, he could ask me publicly. This kind of timid private 'would it be reasonable if I were to want to lynch this person? I'm not sure if that would be scummy or not and I don't want to reveal my alignment by the way I play' thing is very obviously scumplay to me.

No, If I wanted your opinion, and to compare it to half the game's players I would have asked 8 of you via pm.  Which I did.

[flabort]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Flabort

NQT are you doing a compilation spreadsheet of reads again? Can you see anything interesting?

I haven't done the reads thing yet, but I've been looking at the votes.

Jim has been really sluggish with his voting, voting for the first time 50 minutes ago. Tiruin has yet to make a case or form a suspicion. I'd be looking to lynch/vigkill/investigate/etc. these two.

You and Wolf have drawn the most votes in the game, but some of those votes (judging by your reactions) could be distancing. The Pisswolf combo has the most posts in the game (followed shortly by UXLZ), which speaks well of them. That said, the only game I'd seen that's bucked the no-scum-post-most rule was a Paranormal game. Scripten is conventionally the least suspicious having managed to press the most cases. I'll have better stuff to go tomorrow.

I'm against lynching Deathsword right now, simply for the reason that your push on lynching him is based off of his replacement request.
Pisskop, again.

I think you're wilfully misinterpreting Pisskop here. I've just taken a look at some of Deathsword's other games and he very frequently replaces out (including replacing out as scum in both CYOM games). It wasn't hard to find out. Every game isn't entirely different, otherwise we wouldn't be able to talk about meta and scumtells and the like. There are patterns. We don't have to lynch Deathsword, but lynching Pisskop in a fit of pique after misinterpreting a PM is hardly the best way to proceed.

snip

Flabort

Deathsword/Flabort, why are you voting Pisskop? Wolf's gambit might not have been as well executed as he'd like, but it does strike me as something a town-Wolf would have done. What did you hope to achieve in claiming vigilante.

I had hoped to gain some standing with the town, after I lost it all by being "underhanded", although I didn't try to be underhanded and didn't think I was being underhanded.
As far as why I'm voting him, see above.

Conventional mafia wisdom says that this was a bloody stupid thing for you to have attempted, but you might survive today so maybe it was worthwhile. What do you think of the difference between Pisskop and Wolf's play?[/b]

Good work getting my attention by dividing this into two sections, but I would have seen them anyways.

4maskwolf is the more experienced player, at least as far as I can tell, and his in-thread day style is far more refined and less jumpy/dodgy and also has a better grasp of the rules (such as knowing how many kills a Vig has listed in the OP).
Pisskop is more of an in-your-face aggressive player than 4mask is, although he doesn't have the know-how yet to tell when he's saying something that could get him in trouble. He's more likely to say what's on his mind, and more likely to accuse you for the little things and push his lynch targets. This is a good thing, mostly, but without experience it also causes a great deal of self-inflicted harm.

[Deus Asmoth]

Pisskop, did you PM everyone in the game or just the people you'd previously PM'd about Deathsword? If the former, why not just do it in the thread? If the latter, why only them?

Cheetar, if you got the same PM I did, then pisskop was asking your opinion on Deathsword's activity, not asking you to lynch him.

So I'm getting started on reading the thread through from where I was before Saturday and I'm clearly doing something wrong with Lurkertracker. I should just be copying the url of the first page to look at the whole thread right?

PPE: NQT, My point was that if flabort was just fakeclaiming vig in the hope that there would turn out to be another one in the game, that vig would have a choice between not killing anyone, killing someone and letting flabort claim credit or reveal themselves on day two in response to flabort doing that and then get more than likely killed night 2.

[UXLZ]

No, If I wanted your opinion, and to compare it to half the game's players I would have asked 8 of you via pm.  Which I did.

My PM didn't contain that specific question, though.

[Cheeetar]

Cheetar, if you got the same PM I did, then pisskop was asking your opinion on Deathsword's activity, not asking you to lynch him.

I quoted what I received- it's in my post. Pisskop specifically asks how comfortable I am lynching an unreplaced Deathsword.

[pisskop]

No, If I wanted your opinion, and to compare it to half the game's players I would have asked 8 of you via pm.  Which I did.

My PM didn't contain that specific question, though.

That's something Flabort skipped over.  But shhhh.  He's too busy trying to lynch the strongest advocate for keeping him alive to notice.
  Yes, I sent Flabort the same exact thing I sent you, hours ago like you, and he didn't respond like you.  The other version I sent out later to people I didn't talk to as much.

Pisskop, did you PM everyone in the game or just the people you'd previously PM'd about Deathsword? If the former, why not just do it in the thread? If the latter, why only them?

I PMed 7 people.  It included everyone in 4mask's original PM group, as well as 4 others.  3 Got Cheetar's message, and 4 got what you got.
  I picked from people I was willing to believe were town as well as people I thought were neutral leaning and scummier.  I picked people who I thought would respond, and who I had no knowledge of their mafia game experience prior to this.
  I did not post it publicly because I wanted to compare everyone's responses.  I got 3 of them, and all helped me some.  Flabort's response, while overdone, is a complete example of what everyone would have said publicly, if they responded at all.

Cheetar, if you got the same PM I did, then pisskop was asking your opinion on Deathsword's activity, not asking you to lynch him.

So I'm getting started on reading the thread through from where I was before Saturday and I'm clearly doing something wrong with Lurkertracker. I should just be copying the url of the first page to look at the whole thread right?

PPE: NQT, My point was that if flabort was just fakeclaiming vig in the hope that there would turn out to be another one in the game, that vig would have a choice between not killing anyone, killing someone and letting flabort claim credit or reveal themselves on day two in response to flabort doing that and then get more than likely killed night 2.

If flabort is fakeclaiming, or if another vig exists, I would recommend they shoot him dead.  If one does not exist, I propose we give him a list of people to shoot.  If a person on that list fails to die we lynch him tomorrow.
  However we make, decide, or deliver that list, it can be done and is favorable to lynching Flabort night 01.  I believe he is town for several reasons, including prior PMs, including his effort put into his posts.

EBWOP:
  -Now cheetar, you do me injustice by not including the rest of that line.

  -If Cheetar would come to reason, I would gladly vote DarkStar with him.

[Cheeetar]

<snip>
Nonsense.  We dictate who he kills, and we pick another choice.  We can even elect two people to send him a private message and one of those two best be dead tomorrow.  There are many ways to ensure we get our vig shot (multiple, as pointed out above) without it being anything less than a complication.  Even moreso with PMs

Okay: What happens if we get a doppelganger vigilante, and they choose to kill who we tell them to that aren't doppelgangers?

<snip>
No, If I wanted your opinion, and to compare it to half the game's players I would have asked 8 of you via pm.  Which I did.

You wanted my opinion on whether it would be reasonable to lynch Deathsword. Why, if not to try to push a lynch on Deathsword?

Edit Before Posting:
In the above post, Pisskop saying Flabort should not lynch him because Pisskop does not see Flabort as scummy.. Specifically: "He's too busy trying to lynch the strongest advocate for keeping him alive"- wanting Flabort to not lynch him because he doesn't want to lynch Flabort. This is scummy.
He is also bargaining with me for a lynch- he'd be fine voting with me, so long as it was for this other guy who Pisskop had previously not been voting for. Why isn't he pushing his lynch on Deathsword? Does he just want any mislynch?

Also: How do you mean not including the rest of that line?

[Jim Groovester]

Jim has been really sluggish with his voting, voting for the first time 50 minutes ago.

Are you sure I'm the person you're talking about here? I voted several days ago.

Having two votes isn't really 'a lot' now, is it?

I suppose not, but I didn't know that detail off the top of my head and didn't bother to check. Your votes looked like pressure votes so I asked about it.

Letting somebody live because they're a high priority target for a nightkill (assuming they're telling the truth) is not optimal, because it leaves open the possibility for scum to leave them alive to draw our suspicion to them, and they can also argue that they were left alive purely so scum would have an easy lynch the following day. At the time, I saw Flabort as the scummiest player, and I wasn't going to let his weird silly claim get in the way of my wanting to lynch him.

Are you opposed to giving him the chance to verify his claim? If you were scum and you believed flabort's claim, what would you do?

Nonsense.  We dictate who he kills, and we pick another choice.  We can even elect two people to send him a private message and one of those two best be dead tomorrow.  There are many ways to ensure we get our vig shot (multiple, as pointed out above) without it being anything less than a complication.  Even moreso with PMs

I am completely opposed to any plan about dictating to the vigilante who he kills.

No, If I wanted your opinion, and to compare it to half the game's players I would have asked 8 of you via pm.  Which I did.

My PM didn't contain that specific question, though.

Care to quote it then? If the PMs are ever so slightly different then that might be worth a look, although I'm hesitant to have the rest of Day 1 wrapped up in stupid PM discussion.

Is deathsword's activity consistent with his playstyle?
  He claimed his time was taken up by Operation Overlord, but his posting there is relatively infrequent.  What do you think of his placing out?  How does his unnamed replacement sit?

I have asked for Meph's permission to ask about his activity level in both this and his current game relative to his meta before asking this.  Please only refer to his current games with relation to frequency.

As an added question; how comfortable are you lynching an unreplaced Deathsword?  What would be the reason for your position?

Why didn't you say this in thread?

No, If I wanted your opinion, and to compare it to half the game's players I would have asked 8 of you via pm.  Which I did.

You asked half the people in the game?

Never mind then. Big whoop, he asked people about Deathsword's meta.

Edit Before Posting:
In the above post, Pisskop saying Flabort should not lynch him because Pisskop does not see Flabort as scummy.. Specifically: "He's too busy trying to lynch the strongest advocate for keeping him alive"- wanting Flabort to not lynch him because he doesn't want to lynch Flabort. This is scummy.
He is also bargaining with me for a lynch- he'd be fine voting with me, so long as it was for this other guy who Pisskop had previously not been voting for. Why isn't he pushing his lynch on Deathsword? Does he just want any mislynch?

Also: How do you mean not including the rest of that line?

Okay, yeah, that's pretty scummy.

Gosh, making this post has been a rollercoaster of changing opinion!

[notquitethere]

Flabort

Good work getting my attention by dividing this into two sections, but I would have seen them anyways.

That was actually unintentional. I usually try to maximise the chance people will actually read things I direct at them.

4maskwolf is the more experienced player, at least as far as I can tell, and his in-thread day style is far more refined and less jumpy/dodgy and also has a better grasp of the rules (such as knowing how many kills a Vig has listed in the OP).
Pisskop is more of an in-your-face aggressive player than 4mask is, although he doesn't have the know-how yet to tell when he's saying something that could get him in trouble. He's more likely to say what's on his mind, and more likely to accuse you for the little things and push his lynch targets. This is a good thing, mostly, but without experience it also causes a great deal of self-inflicted harm.

OK, so Pisskop is inexperience. Now can you tell me why him asking about whether Deathsword's play was characteristic/worth voting etc. is a good reason to lynch someone. To get the most out of day one, we want to maximise our information. Do you disagree? Killing a suspicious player that we know nothing about increases our info more than killing a jumpy player that we know a lot about and can pin to an action tonight. Am I wrong?

What do you actually think about players like Tiruin, Deathsword, TDS (and to an extent, Jim) who've not contributed very much to the game?


Deus

PPE: NQT, My point was that if flabort was just fakeclaiming vig in the hope that there would turn out to be another one in the game, that vig would have a choice between not killing anyone, killing someone and letting flabort claim credit or reveal themselves on day two in response to flabort doing that and then get more than likely killed night 2.

I don't really see that happening, by I can see where you're coming from now.

So I'm getting started on reading the thread through from where I was before Saturday and I'm clearly doing something wrong with Lurkertracker. I should just be copying the url of the first page to look at the whole thread right?

No, always put the first post of the first day of the game (so it doesn't count pre-game chatter). This is the first post. Paste it into the 'thread url' field. Remember to check the clear db first box.

I'm looking forward to seeing your final D1 case.


UXLZ

My PM didn't contain that specific question, though.

What question were you asked?


Cheetar

If he wanted my opinion, he could ask me publicly. This kind of timid private 'would it be reasonable if I were to want to lynch this person? I'm not sure if that would be scummy or not and I don't want to reveal my alignment by the way I play' thing is very obviously scumplay to me.

But that wasn't what Pisskop was doing though, was it? He asked half the players in the game the same question. That's not timid. And he wanted to know whether Deathsword's play was consistent with his meta (I actually checked. It is consistent for both Deathsword's town and scum play: Deathsword replaces out a lot but he finishes more games as town) and that's a reasonable question to ask. Trying to ascertain what a select number of players think isn't inherently scummy. I just don't get the case you've got here.

In the above post, Pisskop saying Flabort should not lynch him because Pisskop does not see Flabort as scummy.. Specifically: "He's too busy trying to lynch the strongest advocate for keeping him alive"- wanting Flabort to not lynch him because he doesn't want to lynch Flabort. This is scummy.

I read that more as a player frustrated with someone who they think should be on their side.

He is also bargaining with me for a lynch- he'd be fine voting with me, so long as it was for this other guy who Pisskop had previously not been voting for.

Who are you talking about here? I don't see it.

Why isn't he pushing his lynch on Deathsword? Does he just want any mislynch?

This is a bit silly. You say he's trying to persuade people to lynch Deathsword then you accuse him of not pushing his lynch on Deathsword. Come on, you're better than this Cheetar.


Jim

Are you sure I'm the person you're talking about here? I voted several days ago.

Sorry, I misinterpreted the lurker tracker. I think at the time, the last time you'd posted was something like 50 minutes prior, but as you point out you voted some days ago. I withdraw the complaint. Do you still think TDS is the scummiest player?

I suppose not, but I didn't know that detail off the top of my head and didn't bother to check. Your votes looked like pressure votes so I asked about it.

OK, that's reasonable. Do you think my vote on Tiruin (in light of my recent reiteration of it) still looks like a pressure vote?

[pisskop]

Spoiler: To Cheetar (click to show/hide)

<snip>
Nonsense.  We dictate who he kills, and we pick another choice.  We can even elect two people to send him a private message and one of those two best be dead tomorrow.  There are many ways to ensure we get our vig shot (multiple, as pointed out above) without it being anything less than a complication.  Even moreso with PMs

Okay: What happens if we get a doppelganger vigilante, and they choose to kill who we tell them to that aren't doppelgangers?

Well, Ideally we get a detective or reporter to watch him.  I strongly suspect the existence of the detective.  Very.  Strongly.
  And I am the reporter.

To be fair, there is no foolproof way to ensure he is 'town vig'.  If you would prefer I can post the PMs that convinced me of his towniness.

<snip>
No, If I wanted your opinion, and to compare it to half the game's players I would have asked 8 of you via pm.  Which I did.

You wanted my opinion on whether it would be reasonable to lynch Deathsword. Why, if not to try to push a lynch on Deathsword?

Because Everyone else, who responded via PM, gave me a paragraph on how they felt.  Why wouldn't you?  You have, in fact, given me quite a bit of material; at the expense of my not being able to get a response from anyone else (flabort did respond publicly, tbh).

Edit Before Posting:
In the above post, Pisskop saying Flabort should not lynch him because Pisskop does not see Flabort as scummy.. Specifically: "He's too busy trying to lynch the strongest advocate for keeping him alive"- wanting Flabort to not lynch him because he doesn't want to lynch Flabort. This is scummy.
He is also bargaining with me for a lynch- he'd be fine voting with me, so long as it was for this other guy who Pisskop had previously not been voting for. Why isn't he pushing his lynch on Deathsword? Does he just want any mislynch?

That sounds unfair, considering I have stated my suspicion of DarkStar and after Masta's PM response my my question I felt better about him.

Also: How do you mean not including the rest of that line?

I asked you why you felt the way you did about lynching Deathsword, in addition to how comfortable you felt if tht were to happen.

<snip>
Nonsense.  We dictate who he kills, and we pick another choice.  We can even elect two people to send him a private message and one of those two best be dead tomorrow.  There are many ways to ensure we get our vig shot (multiple, as pointed out above) without it being anything less than a complication.  Even moreso with PMs

Okay: What happens if we get a doppelganger vigilante, and they choose to kill who we tell them to that aren't doppelgangers?

Well, Ideally we get a detective or reporter to watch him.  I strongly suspect the existence of the detective.  Very.  Strongly.
  And I am the reporter.

To be fair, there is no foolproof way to ensure he is 'town vig'.  If you would prefer I can post the PMs that convinced me of his towniness.

<snip>
No, If I wanted your opinion, and to compare it to half the game's players I would have asked 8 of you via pm.  Which I did.

You wanted my opinion on whether it would be reasonable to lynch Deathsword. Why, if not to try to push a lynch on Deathsword?

Because Everyone else, who responded via PM, gave me a paragraph on how they felt.  Why wouldn't you?  You have, in fact, given me quite a bit of material; at the expense of my not being able to get a response from anyone else (flabort did respond publicly, tbh).

Edit Before Posting:
In the above post, Pisskop saying Flabort should not lynch him because Pisskop does not see Flabort as scummy.. Specifically: "He's too busy trying to lynch the strongest advocate for keeping him alive"- wanting Flabort to not lynch him because he doesn't want to lynch Flabort. This is scummy.
He is also bargaining with me for a lynch- he'd be fine voting with me, so long as it was for this other guy who Pisskop had previously not been voting for. Why isn't he pushing his lynch on Deathsword? Does he just want any mislynch?

That sounds unfair, considering I have stated my suspicion of DarkStar and after Masta's PM response my my question I felt better about him.

Also: How do you mean not including the rest of that line?

I asked you why you felt the way you did about lynching Deathsword, in addition to how comfortable you felt if tht were to happen.

Spoiler: Jim (click to show/hide)

Nonsense.  We dictate who he kills, and we pick another choice.  We can even elect two people to send him a private message and one of those two best be dead tomorrow.  There are many ways to ensure we get our vig shot (multiple, as pointed out above) without it being anything less than a complication.  Even moreso with PMs

I am completely opposed to any plan about dictating to the vigilante who he kills.

  You are entitled to that choice, but I disagree.

No, If I wanted your opinion, and to compare it to half the game's players I would have asked 8 of you via pm.  Which I did.

My PM didn't contain that specific question, though.

Care to quote it then? If the PMs are ever so slightly different then that might be worth a look, although I'm hesitant to have the rest of Day 1 wrapped up in stupid PM discussion.

Is deathsword's activity consistent with his playstyle?
  He claimed his time was taken up by Operation Overlord, but his posting there is relatively infrequent.  What do you think of his placing out?  How does his unnamed replacement sit?

I have asked for Meph's permission to ask about his activity level in both this and his current game relative to his meta before asking this.  Please only refer to his current games with relation to frequency.

As an added question; how comfortable are you lynching an unreplaced Deathsword?  What would be the reason for your position?

Why didn't you say this in thread?

No, If I wanted your opinion, and to compare it to half the game's players I would have asked 8 of you via pm.  Which I did.

You asked half the people in the game?

Never mind then. Big whoop, he asked people about Deathsword's meta.

The Other PM Version

Is deathsword's activity consistent with his playstyle?
  He claimed his time was taken up by Operation Overlord, but his posting there is relatively infrequent.  What do you think of his placing out?  How does his unnamed replacement sit?

I have asked for Meph's permission to ask about his activity level in both this and his current game relative to his meta before asking this.  Please only refer to his current games with relation to frequency.  If you do not wish to answer, that is fine.
I have sent out PMs to all players my slot has talked to via whispering.

Edit Before Posting:
In the above post, Pisskop saying Flabort should not lynch him because Pisskop does not see Flabort as scummy.. Specifically: "He's too busy trying to lynch the strongest advocate for keeping him alive"- wanting Flabort to not lynch him because he doesn't want to lynch Flabort. This is scummy.
He is also bargaining with me for a lynch- he'd be fine voting with me, so long as it was for this other guy who Pisskop had previously not been voting for. Why isn't he pushing his lynch on Deathsword? Does he just want any mislynch?

Also: How do you mean not including the rest of that line?

Okay, yeah, that's pretty scummy.

Gosh, making this post has been a rollercoaster of changing opinion!

I'm outie.  Tomorrow morning I'll be on.

[UXLZ]

What question were you asked?

This is the PM I received.

Is deathsword's activity consistent with his playstyle?
  He claimed his time was taken up by Operation Overlord, but his posting there is relatively infrequent.  What do you think of his placing out?  How does his unnamed replacement sit?

I have asked for Meph's permission to ask about his activity level in both this and his current game relative to his meta before asking this.  Please only refer to his current games with relation to frequency.  If you do not wish to answer, that is fine.
I have sent out PMs to all players my slot has talked to via whispering.

[notquitethere]

UXLZ, I can confirm I also received that PM. Not really worth lynching someone who'd claimed Reporter over. We can confirm what Pisskop does each night. I can see nothing that's to be gained in killing him.

[Scripten]

Is deathsword's activity consistent with his playstyle?
  He claimed his time was taken up by Operation Overlord, but his posting there is relatively infrequent.  What do you think of his placing out?  How does his unnamed replacement sit?

I have asked for Meph's permission to ask about his activity level in both this and his current game relative to his meta before asking this.  Please only refer to his current games with relation to frequency.

As an added question; how comfortable are you lynching an unreplaced Deathsword?  What would be the reason for your position?

This is the PM I received. Considering I displayed discomfort with the idea of lynching Deathsword while he is in the process of being replaced, I didn't see anything outwardly scummy in it. I do not believe that Pisskop is the best lynch for today, especially with the PR claim.