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[Mech#4]

After a recent ambush battle, I think I will change my opinion of Plague somewhat. After casting it on 2 bunched up units of Iron Breakers and having them reduced to just about 1/3 health left I think it works very nicely.

I've had it perform not nearly as impressively against weaker units, orc boyz and the like, but it really does seem to deal most of its damage only against heavily armoured targets.

If someone would like to see how I deal with an ambush as Skaven vs Dwarfs, here's a link to the .replay file on Dropbox. I play on normal with large unit sizes.

Spoiler:  Army Lists (click to show/hide)

Queek Headtaker:
Warlock Engineer (No spells)
Plague Priest
2 Stormvermin Halberds
1 Stormvermin Sword/Shields
1 Plaguemonks
4 Clanrats Spears/Shields
4 Clanrats Swords/Shields
1 Gutterrunners Throwing Weapons
1 Poisonwind Globadiers
1 Skavenslaves Slings
1 Rat Ogres
1 Warplightning Cannon

Thorgrim Grudgebearer:
2 Ironbreakers
1 Giantslayers
1 Hammerers
2 Slayers
1 Longbeards Greatweapons
1 Longbeards
1 Dwarf Warriors Greatweapons
1 Miners Blasting Charges
1 RoR Rangers
1 Rangers Greatweapons
1 Rangers
2 Quarrellers Greatweapons
4 Cannons

Spoiler: Notes on watching replay (click to show/hide)

Since I play with mods there's some you'll most likely need to see the replay play out as it should. Nothing too major.
1: I'm playing with the beta patch.
2: I use the persistant summons mod. This affects the Skaven spawns.
3: Runic Forge: A Rune Crafting Mod for the Dawi.  This might affect the dwarfs if they have some items from it. I'm not too sure.

To play the replay, you'll need to put it into your replay folder, located in C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Warhammer2\replays on Windows 10.

That should be all the mods that affect units. If it doesn't work, mention it and I'll give a list of all the mods I use.

[EnigmaticHat]

I would highly advise making handing off Queek's army to another lord and filling his up with stormvermin halberdiers.  Your army is fine, its just... Queek gives half upkeep on stormvermin which makes them about as affordable as clanrats.

Also unless you need to kill large, single model units, I'd swap out the warp lightning cannon for a catapult.  The catapult is unbelieveably effective against armored infantry.  Its also bizarrely precise: it can hit flying units, or lob shots almost point blank over the heads of allied infantry as long as they're on slightly lower elevation.  See, magic is nice, but Skaven siege operators have mastered the most violent and powerful school of forbidden knowledge: trigonometry.

[umiman]

I would highly advise making handing off Queek's army to another lord and filling his up with stormvermin halberdiers.  Your army is fine, its just... Queek gives half upkeep on stormvermin which makes them about as affordable as clanrats.

Also unless you need to kill large, single model units, I'd swap out the warp lightning cannon for a catapult.  The catapult is unbelieveably effective against armored infantry.  Its also bizarrely precise: it can hit flying units, or lob shots almost point blank over the heads of allied infantry as long as they're on slightly lower elevation.  See, magic is nice, but Skaven siege operators have mastered the most violent and powerful school of forbidden knowledge: trigonometry.

I personally found the warp lightning cannon to be way scarier than the catapult.

The catapult is absolutely useless against large units. Warp lightning cannon shreds them.

The catapult is only good against clumps of infantry, like all catapult units. Warp lightning cannon is good against everything and will shred infantry lines too.

For almost all factions except the Dwarfs, most of their scary, threatening units are small model size, not clumps of units. Dragons, cavalry, lords, heroes, monsters, giant fucking lizards, etc. These are priority one targets. This is what your artillery should nuke. Warp lightning cannon is ideal for this.

Catapult, like all catapults, can't really aim for shit. They miss like 1/2 their shots. It's why they're only useful against large groups. Warp lightning cannon is deadly accurate and will down a pegasus from across the map. This is huge, and is why even though the catapult technically does more damage I don't think it's as good, it keeps missing.

Warp lightning only has one flaw compared to the catapult. It's like guns. Can't arc its shots. So when the enemy lines hit, you can't really do anything. That being said... most times the catapult can't do anything at that close range too. If anything the lightning cannon can actually hit the large units attacking your front line, which might make it better.

The warp lightning cannon is like having 4 Luminark of Hysh's in one unit.

[Retropunch]

I think 2 catapults and one cannon is the optimum (plus a warlock engineer). My catapults hammer infantry/big groups whilst my warp lightning cannon hits the big units. There's sort of no reason not to have that in each army - they deal such high damage that you're crippling yourself without.

I find that catapults can fire relatively close - I can normally keep firing throughout as long as my battle line has moved a bit forward. I normally tend to truck them into a better spot later on if there's one near by.
I'd also recommend putting the warp lighting cannon to one side - it can be easily moved round to hit the stuff from the side (keeping it useful), and being side on assists with fewer misses.

[EnigmaticHat]

The warp lightning cannon has a crippling weakness: all three cannons will unerringly aim at the flag of the unit its firing at.  Its the difference between killing like... 5 dwarves, or wiping out half the unit's health.

Even against monstrous infantry, the warp lightning cannon is pretty wasteful.  Since you're unlikely to hit more than 1 due to the way those units stand, your absolute best scenario is killing one every shot.  Against a unit type that typically has bad defensive stats and 12 models, that's not impressive.

IME the only case where the lightning cannon will do better in single player is firing at units that only have one model.  So... against high elves for example, warp lightning cannon is never better (unless you're up against 5+ flying creatures but siege weapons aren't what wins you that fight anyway).  Against lizardmen on the other hand its indispensable.

So, early and midgame, in Eye of the Vortex, that's... one faction I would bring a warp lightning cannon against.  I guess if I was playing as Clan Rictus I'd bring a couple to fight Morinth to take out her starting Hydra.  In the lategame the formula completely turns around tho.  The armies from the last two rituals are going to be swarming with monstrous creatures, and also a cannon can take out those nasty lvl 5 garrison towers about twice as fast as a catapult.  Although because of angles a catapult will be much better at clearing the walls, and the only one of the two useful against things on the other side of a wall.  I've tried to use lightning cannons defensively by having an infantry unit stand in a gate and the cannon fire through it... would not recommend.

This may be an issue of difficulty tho.  On normal battle difficulty, Skaven aren't worried about lords, cavalry, light infantry, archers... most things really.  If you can beat it by selecting two spears + shields clanrats and right clicking on it, its not a threat.  Its pretty much just "what do I do against armored infantry," that's your only real problem.  Stat bonuses in this game apply much more heavily to weak units and high model count units than to strong units and low model count units.  So at higher difficulties, elites and low model count units become vastly more important.  Because if you take an already better unit and bump up its melee defense using a multiplier rather than addition... weak units just won't be able to hit it.  I guarantee you on normal difficulty I have never met a calvalry unit that cannot be beaten by clanrat spears with shields, usually 1v1.  I imagine that becomes far less viable on legendary battle difficulty (which is why I personally bump up caimpaign difficulty and leave battle difficulty alone).  Same disclaimer as before: all of this is singleplayer.  In multiplayer my strat would be "don't play Skaven".

[Mech#4]

I would highly advise making handing off Queek's army to another lord and filling his up with stormvermin halberdiers.  Your army is fine, its just... Queek gives half upkeep on stormvermin which makes them about as affordable as clanrats.

Also unless you need to kill large, single model units, I'd swap out the warp lightning cannon for a catapult.  The catapult is unbelieveably effective against armored infantry.  Its also bizarrely precise: it can hit flying units, or lob shots almost point blank over the heads of allied infantry as long as they're on slightly lower elevation.  See, magic is nice, but Skaven siege operators have mastered the most violent and powerful school of forbidden knowledge: trigonometry.

Nope, I make armies with usually only 1 unit of Stormvermin. They're the lords bodyguard. It's a hold over I have from 6th edition Skaven rules where you could only take 1 unit of stormvermin in the entire army. I like making do with less of the elite units then absolutely neccessary. The army is like this because I had recently confederated with Clan Mors and that's what Queeks army was like, hence the 8 units of Clanrats, it's unchanged from what the A.I. recruited.
The catapults nice but I'd take it more for its contaminated effect then the damage it can do. -10 leadership is good to push wavering units over to fleeing.

[Tack]

See, magic is nice, but Skaven siege operators have mastered the most violent and powerful school of forbidden knowledge: trigonometry.

we shall take-take their slide-rules

[EnigmaticHat]

See, magic is nice, but Skaven siege operators have mastered the most violent and powerful school of forbidden knowledge: trigonometry.

we shall take-take their slide-rules

Find sine-sine for Horned Rat!

I love Skaven so much.  As is they're horrifying, but if you made them maybe two or three steps less genuinely dangerous they would be ineffectual children's cartoon villains.

oh my god.  I'm literally a Redwall villain

[nenjin]

Skaven are easily my favorite baddie GWS race. It used to be orks, before GWS forgot how to have fun and just put more spikes on literally everything.

[Hanslanda]

Skaven are easily my favorite baddie GWS race. It used to be orks, before GWS forgot how to have fun and just put more spikes on literally everything.

This. Skaven are literally capable of being a world ending menace, but they're so hilariously incompetent and backstabbing that they usually fuck up badly. They're the Hillary Clinton of WH factions.

[Mech#4]

There's been an update to the Festag Beta Update. Several changes have been made affecting lord skills as well as some buildings.

Spoiler: Change List (click to show/hide)

This update contains a variety of skill changes and additions to specific Legendary Lords in the Mortal Empires campaign that didn’t make the original Festag Beta Update in December 2018. The update also includes some changes to buildings, a range of bugfixes and a number of Race, Character, Item and Unit balance changes. The balance changes listed below show all balance changes since Curse of the Vampire Coast launched.
Instructions – Read Me!

It is highly recommended that you start a new game after opting into the beta. Since a large number of skills have been reworked, any points invested in skills before the update are likely to be lost on an existing save game.

Since we already have an existing beta named “public_beta”, to avoid confusion we will rename this and have two betas that can be selected from:

    “norsca_beta” – This is for those that want to stay on the most recent update prior to Vampire Coast to continue with multiplayer save games, which would no longer be compatible post-Vampire Coast release. This beta was previously known as “public_beta”.
    “coast_beta” – This is for the Festag Update patch – the update will give you all the content and fixes listed below.

Instructions for opting into and downloading the update are as follows:

    In Steam games library, right-click “Total War: WARHAMMER II” and select “Properties”.
    In the Properties window, select the “BETAS” tab.
    Select “coast_beta” from the list.
    Total War: WARHAMMER II will update to the Festag Update patch.

General and Miscellaneous Fixes

    Fixed an exploit where clicking on a hidden Skaven Settlement would show movement range of any garrisoned army.
    The camera can now be panned in the diplomacy screen.
    Lokhir Fellheart can now complete the Final Battle Vortex victory objective (will require a new Campaign to take effect)
    Fixed encounters at sea occasionally spawning Dark Elf armies containing Vampire Coast units
    Fixed Alith Anar assassination missions generating targets further away from the player than intended
    Fixed Alith Anar assassination missions resetting incorrectly under certain circumstances
    Fixed Norsca Marauder Chieftains having two Rage abilities simultaneously
    Fixed several magic items not dropping after battle, or dropping when they were not supposed to
    Fixed the Scroll of Lykos magic item expiring and disappearing
    Added missing Walls building chain in Wurtbad for Greenskins
    Added missing Troll Lair building in Karak Kadrin for Greenskins
    Fixed duplicate Beast Lairz building for Greenskins in Karak Angazhar
    Fixed Wood Elves not being able to trade with Tomb Kings & Vampire Coast after assigning the correct council seat
    Wood Elves technology / Office effects that provide armour no longer state that it increases by a % but by a flat amount
    Old Grumblers, Warriors (Great Weapons) and Longbeards (Great Weapons) no longer have the one-handed technology effect apply to them

Skill Changes
Grombrindal

    Reimplemented the missing Flash Bomb ability (now in Character skills section)
    Reimplemented the missing Mighty Beard of Defence skill (now in Character skills section)

Isabella Von Carstein

New skills:

    Fell bats: At Dawn They Sleep

+12 Melee attack

+12 melee defence

    Dire Wolves: Release the Hounds

+12 Melee attack

+12 melee defence

    Vargheist: The Ravening Beast

+12 melee attack

+25 armour

    Varghulf: Time of Arising

+12 Leadership

+12 Melee attack

    Terrorghesist: Midnight’s Children

+12 Leadership

+12 melee attack
Throgg

    Changed “Cyclopean Fiends” skill to “Monstrous Fiends”
    Added effects that buff all Trolls units to the following skills:
    +12 Leadership (King of Trolls)
    +15 Melee Attack (Monstrous Fiends)
    +15 Melee defence (Monstrous Fiends)
    +20% missile resist (Mutant Regeneration)

Alberic

    Added the missing Protector of the Realm effects to the skill Champions of Bordeleaux

Beastlord

    Replaced the duplicate Bloodlust skill from the Personal Combat chain with Deadly Onslaught

Volkmar

    Reimplemented the missing Second Nature skill

Vampire Coast Tech and Female Vampire Coast Lords

    Replaced remaining 3 tier Personal Combat chain skills with 2 tier variants

Red Duke

    Red Duke now has the same mount in Battle and Campaign when using the Hellsteed and Barded Nightmare mounts

Settra

    Restless Minions skill now also applies to the Khepra Guard Regiment of Renown

Bloodline Strigoi

    Monstrosities of Morr no longer stacks accross multiple Lords resulting in Crypt Horrors being unrecruitable

Building Changes
Vampire Crypt

    Varghulf now only appears once in the ‘required to unlock units’ section

Balefire

    When damaged this building will now have half the Corruption effects as when it is not damaged (previously produced more Corruption when damaged)

Dark Elf Slaves

The following settlement chains now have a Dark Elf slave capacity, allowing slaves to be sent to provinces with these settlements:

    High Elf Colony Settlement Major
    High Elf Colony Settlement Minor
    Lahmia Special Settlement

Black Arks

To rectify an issue that was causing Black Arks to recruit/replace higher level Lords than could be recruited from a province, all buildings that previously increased the Lord recruit rank in a single province have now been rebalanced to apply the effect to all provinces.

For example, the Dark Elf building Palace of Dread Knights no longer increase local Lord recruitment by 2 but increases Lord recruitment by 1 in all provinces; these effects are now intended to stack across multiple provinces.

This change is a significant buff in terms of how this building can affect late-game recruitment, so to avoid any one faction not receiving this effect we have added a Lord recruitment effect to the following buildings too:

    Vampire Counts – Necromancer’s Tower
    Brettonia – Cathedral of the Lady
    Norsca – Vikti Temple
    Vampire Coast – Pirate Wharf

Balancing Changes (includes all changes between Vampire Coast and this patch)
Units
Bretonnia

    Green Knight: Hit reactions ignore chance from 0 to 50, knock interrupts from 0 to 50, +20 ap melee damage, +10 base meleen damage.
    Pegasus Knights: increased mass from 700 to 1000, -100 cost.
    Grail Guardians: -50 mp cost
    Knights Errant: +4 charge bonus
    Defenders of Fleur-de-Lis: +4 charge bonus
    Grail Relique:  Icon of Devotion-ability’s effect range changed from 40 to 55 meters.

Dark Elves

    Kharibdyss is now aquatic.
    Raven Heralds: -100 cost

Dwarfs

    Thane: now has access to Rune of Slowness in multiplayer.
    Master Engineer: no longer has access to Rune of Slowness in multiplayer.

Empire

    Mortar: -50 cost
    Flagellants: increased Strength of the Penitent-ability’s physical resistance effect from +12% to +15%.

Greenskins

    Krimson Killerz: +20 men on Ultra, +150 cost, -5 armour, -1 health per entity, -1 charge bonus, -2 ap melee damage, +0.6 melee attack interval, tweaks to splash attack characteristics.

High Elves

    Alastair the White Lion – Dragon mounts: added siege attacker.

Lizardmen

    Bastilodon (Solar Engine): slightly improved accuracy of projectile.

Norsca

    Marauder Ice Wolf Chariots: can now run at 95 speed.
    Marauder Champions: +4 health per entity
    Marauder Champions (Great Weapons): +4 health per entity, +2 run speed.
    Kihar the Tormentor: added siege attacker
    Fimir (both): added siege attacker
    Fimir Balefiend (both): added siege attacker

Skaven

    Plague Monk Censer Bearers: +1 melee attack
    Stormvermin (Halberds): +2 melee defence.
    Queek Headtaker: -50 mp cost

Tomb Kings

    Tomb Scorpion: Hit reactions ignore chance from 0 to 40, knock interrupts from 0 to 40, mass from 3000 to 2400, -2 melee defence, -5 melee attack, +5 bonus vs infantry.  added Siege Attacker.
    Casket of Souls: -50 mp cost
    Khatep – Casket of Souls: -50 mp cost

Vampire Coast

    Deck Droppers (all): -10 flying speed, reduced turn speed.
    Deck Droppers (Handguns): -2 ammo, slightly reduced accuracy, -2 ap projectile damage, -1 base projectile damage.
    Deck Droppers (Bombers) & Salt Lord’s Scuttlers: +2 ammo
    Zombie Pirate Deckhands Mob: -2 health per entity
    Zombie Pirate Deckhands Mob (Polearms): -2 health per entity
    The Tide of Skjold (Zombie Pirate Deckhands Mob): -2 health per entity
    Zombie Gunnery Mob: -2 health per entity
    Zombie Gunnery Mob (Handguns): -2 health per entity
    The Black Spot: -2 health per entity
    Zombie Gunnery Mob (Bombers): +5 charge bonus, +2 ammo, +4 melee attack, +40 number of men (on ultra), -2 health per entity.
    Zombie Gunnery Mob (Handcannons): +50 cost, +40 number of men (on ultra), -8 base projectile damage, +7 ap projectile damage, -2 health per entity.
    Animated Hulks: +15 armour, +4 melee defence, +10 leadership
    Bloody Reaver Deck Guard: +1 melee defence
    Depth Guard (Halberds): +1 melee defence
    Gallows Giant: projectiles no longer expire before reaching max range.
    Necrofex Colossus: +100 cost
    Shadewraith Gunners: -100 cost
    Death Shriek Terrorgheist: +0.5 entity height, entity is now 57% wider, so a bigger target and harder to pull out from melee.
    Luthor Harkon – Death Shriek Terrorgheist: now uses the same entity size as the regular Death Shriek Terrorgheist (previously used a dragon-sized entity).
    Luthor Harkon (all): removed All Hands Hoay!-ability In multiplayer battles. -100 cost.
    Aranessa (all): removed Hornswaggle-ability in multiplayer battles. -100 cost
    Vampire Fleet Admirals (all): removed Hornswaggle-ability in multiplayer battles.
    Cylostra Direfin – Rotting Leviathan: Added Siege Attacker.
    Count Noctilus: +100 cost

Vampire Counts

    Terrorgheist: +0.5 entity height, entity is now 57% wider, so a bigger target and harder to pull out from melee.
    Blood Dragon Vampire Lord (all): removed Undeath Resurgent-ability in multiplayer battles.
    Blood Dragon Vampire Lord – foot: -5 armour, +100 cost
    Blood Dragon Vampire Lord – Barded Nightmare: -10 armour, +100 cost.
    Blood Dragon Vampire Lord – Hellsteed: -5 armour, +100 cost
    Blood Dragon Vampire Lord – Zombie Dragon: -8 melee defence, +100 cost
    Red Duke – foot: +100 cost, added Frenzy-ability.
    Red Duke – Barded Nightmare: +100 cost, added Frenzy-ability.
    Red Duke – Hellsteed: +10 armour, +100 cost, added Frenzy-ability.
    Red Duke – Zombie Dragon: -4 melee defence, +100 cost, added Frenzy-ability.
    Vampire (Shadows) – Hellsteed: +10 armour
    Vampire (Death) – +10 armour
    Lahmian Vampire Lord – Hellsteed: +10 armour
    Lahmian Vampire Lord – Zombie Dragon: added siege attacker.
    Necrarch Vampire Lord – Zombie Dragon: added siege attacker.
    Von Carstein Vampire Lord – Zombie Dragon: added siege attacker.
    Wight King – Skeletal Steed: +10 armour
    Isabella von Carstein – Hellsteed: +10 armour
    Mannfred von Carstein – Hellsteed: +10 armour

Wood Elves

    Treeman: Hit reactions ignore chance from 0 to 70, knock interrupts from 0 to 70.
    Orion: +10 melee defence
    Wildwood Rangers: +4 leadership
    Wardens of Cythral: +4 leadership

Abilities
General

    Helm of Discord: -10m effect range.

Dwarfs

    Red Ruin (Ungrim): changed to unlimited uses, duration from 50 to 35 seconds, +9 cost in multiplayer, added recharge in melee condition.
    Axe of Dargo (Ungrim): -16 ability duration, -90 ability recharge, added recharge in melee condition.
    Rune of Slowness: changed to -18% movement speed, removed charge bonus effect.
    Flash Bomb: removed recharge in melee, -9 seconds duration.
    Rune Helm of Zhufbar: -4 leadership, removed deactivation condition.

Greenskins

    Get on Wiv’ It (Azhag): removed charge bonus effect, added +8 leadership effect instead.
    Gitsnik (Grimgor): -18 ability duration, -90 ability recharge, added recharge in melee condition.

Vampire Coast

    Captain Roth’s Moondial: -50m target range.

Wood Elves

    Horn of the Wild Hunt (Orion): +3 duration, removed speed effect, +36% charge bonus changed to +54% charge bonus.

Spells

    Denizens of the Deep: +4 seconds recharge time.
    Drowned Dead: +1 power cost.
    Drowned Dead Upgraded: +1 power cost
    Invocation of Nehek: -1 seconds duration.
    Invocation of Nehek Upgraded: -1 seconds duration.
    Vindictive Glare: +1 power cost
    Vindictive Glare Upgraded: +1 power cost

Some of the more notable things, and things that I'm pretty sure weren't in the previous version of the beta patch, is some skills for Throgg that buff troll units (previously, I think the lord skill changes had removed such buffs). Adding the missing wall building chain to Wurtbad, Troll Lair to Karak Kadrin and fixed double Beast Lairz in Karak Angazhar for Greenskins. Also changed so Wood Elves can trade with Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast after assigning a council seat.

There's also a change to lord recruitment level. Tying into an issue people had with Black Arcs replacing higher ranked lords in the recruitment pool, the lord level increases some buildings give are now applied to every province. The example given was the building Palace of Dread Knights which previously increasesd lord recruitment rank by +2. It now increases it by +1 but this affects every province so lords you recruit should be of significantly higher level later on in the campaign.
This has also been added to some other faction buildings, listed below:

    Vampire Counts – Necromancer’s Tower
    Brettonia – Cathedral of the Lady
    Norsca – Vikti Temple
    Vampire Coast – Pirate Wharf

[IcyTea31]

PTW. I'm far from an expert or even particularly skilled in this game, but I can probably contribute into conversations sooner or later.

[EnigmaticHat]

This game is my first introduction to Warhammer... its not what I expected from 40k's older sister.  Like its dark, yeah, but... a lot of fantasy is dark.  Nothing about it is that extra special dark, and it actually seems like the common people of the "order" races live fundamentally decent lives outside of the various invasions and apocalypses.  The unit descriptions emphasize that the humans of the empire have long enough periods of peace that they actually stop believing in certain types of Evil.  That's already so different from 40k where the imperium will never let its citizens forget that evil lurks around every corner, and the things that evil wants to do in Warhammer (body horror, genocide, slavery) are casually done by the good guys in 40k.

Like don't get me wrong, I'm digging it.  Its like Tolkien in the age of sail.  The Empire seems to be the Holy Viking Empire (deifying a Conan the Barbarian dude instead of ancient emperors as happened in Rome), which I'm fine with.  And the "chaos" races seem to be a metaphor for wilderness, anarchy, and decay.  Essentially what the world is if humans don't tame it.  So the whole game is basically a dramatization of Man's ancient quest to build a house and keep everything else out of the house.  Which is a better definition of good + evil than most fantasy stories have, in the end.

Anyway I like the setting its just... not what I expected from from being introduced to 40k first.

[Grim Portent]

They're inspired by different sources, 40k took a lot of inspiration from things like Mad Max, Alien and Judge Dredd and so on. Dystopian sci-fi was very much in when the basic concepts of 40k were being laid down, while Fantasy was inspired by D&D, historical trivia and pulp fantasy.

Fantasy is mostly just 'the good guys hate each other more than usual for fantasy, and we don't shy away from Ogres eating children or mutant babies being abandoned in the woods' type dark, with a lot of black humour thrown in.

[IcyTea31]

It's a quest to build a house and keep everything else out of the house, as you say, but you should realize that you're building it on the ashes of the mansion you burned down the last time something got in. The overarching theme of Fantasy is that the greatness of the past can never be truly rebuilt, and something is lost every time the pieces are put back together; it's an unavoidable spiral towards utter decay, but maybe, just maybe, we can slow it down if we fight for what we believe in.

In contrast, the overarching theme of 40k is that we've reached the end of that spiral, everything is truly lost and nothing matters anymore. We've forgotten what we fight for and thus have become only barely distinguishable from our enemies. We keep fighting not because we want to, but because it's the only thing we still know how to do.