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[scriver]

So yeah I've been trying the Vamp Counts post-rework and they are Awesome. Every bloodline is distinct both visually and in stats (except maybe strigoi?). Necrarch vampires carry staves and have terrible melee stats, whilst Lahmians are female and duellists with a mixed vampires/shadow magic tree. Plus they get their own unique yellow tree. Necrarches can end up having either 3 cost Invohek or 6 cost Invohek upgraded, which is obscene.

So far I'm having some massive fun with it. Haven't yet found out what the descendants of Arborash or Vlad look like but yeah. Big fan.

I've been playing them too.

My main issue is that the old campaigns still have those campaign sub goals thingies which fucks with me so bad. I want to not give a damn and focus on what I want to go (confederate with the other Legendary Lord factions and Moussilon) but I want to fulfil then so much. It's messing with my enjoyment.

[EnigmaticHat]

I don't know how the game decides how badly you won/lost, but it seems a bit fucky.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"close"

[Retropunch]

I don't know how the game decides how badly you won/lost, but it seems a bit fucky.
//
"close"

I've found the exact same thing - I think it really, really can't work out battles for Skaven. I've had battles that went really badly which got a decisive and battles that were just like yours with a close victory. I wonder if it takes into account leadership or something - skaven often run off at around half health (unless you've got a lord with them etc.) and then come back so it might be that they're counting them as 'lost' units or something.

Anyway, as much as I love Skaven it's a pain having to fight every battle manually. The only trick I've found is to get ambush stats really high - the computer obviously values ambushes extremely highly and can auto-battle it way better than I can - I've found Skaven comparatively weak in an ambush as you can't use artillery well, which negates a major strength and if you're awaiting reinforcements you can often take heavy losses before they arrive.

[Teneb]

The AI considers Skaven and Tomb Kings to be extremely weak when it comes to auto-resolve. There are mods to handle that, but even then you need to be careful.

[USEC_OFFICER]

The same seems to apply to Vampire Counts too. I think the game counts leadership a little too highly, so swarms of low leadership troops are penalized even if you have enough to overwhelm the enemy and gank them from all sides.

[Retropunch]

I think the game counts leadership a little too highly, so swarms of low leadership troops are penalized even if you have enough to overwhelm the enemy and gank them from all sides.

Agreed, it's the only thing that makes sense. I suppose if they didn't give leadership high priority you'd end up with the default strategy being stocking up on tons of skavenslaves and roflstomping everything in auto. I do wish they'd balance it out a bit though as currently Skaven has to be pretty much completely manual - I've absolutely obliterated sieges  with a decisive victory (with my tactic being literally walking my skaven straight to the front door) that auto has put me at a decisive defeat with barely any damage to the defenders.

As I mentioned, ambush is great for levelling it out though - I always auto my ambushes and win every time. 

[sambojin]

After watching a fair amount of multiplayer matches on youtube, its probably best to assume every win is a Glorious Victory! Possibly for the Empire.

Or the Waaaaggghhh! Never underestimate the fact that your victory or defeat may actually be a Glorious Victory for the Waaaaggghhhh! Ever.

[EnigmaticHat]

I'm found the best strategy for Skaven ambushes is to deploy at either the front or back of the enemy column.  Either they fight you and get the worst engage possible, or they back up to reform and get blasted by artillery while your reinforcements come in.

I've gotten to the end of my Skaven campaign and I'm honestly not sure if I have the heart to finish the last 20 turns.  I have a significant presence in all regions except Ulthuan, I razed Lothem to the ground, I have so many armies and heroes.  My turns just take so damn long and while I love my armies I've had so many fights with the same units against the same basic opponents.

Spoiler: commentary on Skaven units (click to show/hide)

My basic strategy as Skaven was to lock down the fight and then blow everything up.  Occassionally I would achieve victory through melee flanking instead but blowing everything up is plan A.

I don't know what other faction's arty is like, but Skaven arty is amazing.  I'm honestly not sure what I would do if I was High Elves or Dwarves and had to fight an army with 3+ units of plagueclaw catapults.  Hope the battlefield had trees I guess.  Warp lightning cannons aren't quite as good but they're notable as Skaven's best answer to lizardmen.  Opening fire on a Slann priest or Feral Bastilladon with those things is just brutal.

An unexpected highlight of the campaign was the humble skavenslave.  See, they have one of the best abilities in the game: "expendable", meaning non-expendable units don't get morale penalties for seeing them die.  But THEY get morale boosts for nearby friendlies, so if you stick them in the front of an army they'll last surprisingly long especially with a leadership aura.  They also have almost no upkeep, and because they have 30 more models (I play with 120 as the largest unit) skavenslave slingers do comparable damage to night runner/gutter runner slingers.  Pretty much every army I fielded got 5 skavenslave slingers by default.  They've killed dragons and giants, skirmished with advancing armies, cleared castle walls and absorbed oh so much damage.  Its not uncommon at the end of a fight for me to have 1k+ but the only damaged units are a couple clanrats and all of my skavenslaves.

The skaven strategy of expendability over toughness partners well with skirmishing.  Night runners don't have much opportunity cost because their unit size and offense is only slightly worse than clanrats although they're far worse at absorbing damage.  Using an army heavily weighted towards (non-slinger) night runners against an enemy army featuring a lot of infantry results in hilariously one sided fights.  The thing is that if the enemy brings a couple cavalry you can just have one night runner unit lock each cavalry unit in combat and then cripple them with ranged damage.  Sure those night runners will end up routing but you're skaven, who cares?  Oh and apparently dark elves love heavy infantry so skirmishers against them are practically invincible.

The general opinion of Skaven units online is pretty low, and I'm not sure I agree with that assessment.  Yeah their stats and weapons suck but they have a huge number of models per unit.  Plus their basic infantry is cheap and gets shields.  My go-to strat with Skaven is to make the primary damage of my army things like artillery, warp lightning, globadiers, and huge amounts of ranged fire.  Basically if you only use attacks nothing can survive, then it turns it a numbers game.  The majority of the army just seeks to lock down the front for as long as possible, and maybe get some flanking in.  Stormvermin are another standout in the roster, not only do they have the typical Skaven 120 models but they're the only elite halberd unit I know of that doesn't lose models compared to the basic infantry.  Add that to armor and melee stats that would be mediocre in the hands of other factions and you have a force to be reckoned with.  They can go toe to toe with most infantry, for a time at least, and they do a number on monsterous creatures and calvalry.  The only thing I'd say is I've gotten poor results from shield+sword stormvermin, I mean you can get the same weapon combo on clanrats for half the upkeep so who cares?  Anyway, all that being said I still wouldn't try to fight even numbers of enemy units as Skaven.  It can work but its a losing strat and in the lategame most of my armies went around in pairs.  For that reason I wouldn't try to use Skaven in multiplayer, not that I play MP anyway.

In the early game I would form a massive line melee line with clanrats and try to flank, get two units to each enemy unit and beat them that way.  The more I played the more I began to favor depth over width.  The enemy would have to go through skavenslaves, then clanrats + globadiers, then my rear line with my catapults and a couple of units of defending infantry.  Thus maximizing the time they spend exploding.  Which BTW catapults in this game will happily launch their projectiles at near-melee ranges, sometimes even if they're locked in melee (although they can't shoot the unit that's in melee with them).

[umiman]

Most of Skaven's power come from very specific, very expensive (relatively), and very powerful units. These include Death Globe Globadiers, Warpfire Throwers, Warp Lightning Cannons, their mages, and so on.

The rest of Skaven's army really just exists to bog down the enemy unit those units nuke them. They don't really do much on their own.

While this translates pretty well in singleplayer, which is what matters the most, online it's the same issue as Dwarfs. As in... once you kill some high value targets like their artillery, they're useless. This is very easily achieved in MP battles due to all the various ways of sniping targets. Flying units, mages, empire witch hunters, etc. etc. Too many ways to get rid of Skaven's only way to fight.

[Retropunch]

Yeah, I struggled with other races but have absolutely roflstomped everything with Skaven. Yeah, they're rubbish if you just play them as a usual army, but you'd be stupid to do so. Tying everything dangerous up with night/gutter runners and blasting everything else with arty whilst your expendable/troops swamp them down is great fun. That combined with the menace below/vermintide for taking out enemy artillery and ranged units means that I've been able to handle pretty much any battle.

My strategy currently is to keep a hell pit abomination back until everyone is engaged, bring it round the back and then just smash into the enemy flank along with a vermintide or two and a menace below - everything immediately routes and then I can chase them down at my leisure.

[EnigmaticHat]

Something that took the entire caimpaign for me to figure out is that cones can be aimed freely from the target point.  So you can target, say, skaven scorch at the right side of a unit, and then just turn it to the left and sweep the whole unit off its feet.

In singleplayer you can boost certain Skaven units past their normal potential with the red battle skills and combat buffs.  For example stormvermin with all the relevant skills + an overcast battle frenzy and clan mors clanstone can fight pretty much any infantry in the game, at least until the buffs run out.  You can make gutter runners kite monsterous creatures, and I bet if you got every possible speed buff you could make them kite cavalry.  Both standard leaders and warlock engineers have buffs that can make normal missile units fire faster so stacking a bunch of those on slingers can be crazy.  All in all tho, I mostly stacked -upkeep and +ammo on siege weapons, cause its simple and it works. 

But yeah, in multiplayer I would... um.  Recruit 10 siege engines and 9 plague priests with vermintide?  I dunno, with only 20 unit slots there's not much to work with.  You could bring a bunch of stormvermin+rat ogres and be a shittier version of every other faction.

[Mech#4]

My Skaven armies generally consist of:

Lord
Plague Priest
Warlock Engineer
Assassin
2-3 slaves
3 Clanrat Spears
1 Stormvermin Halberds
2 Night Runners Throwing stars
2 Gutter Runners Throwing stars
2 Plagueclaw Catapults

Last three slots some mix of Warpfire Throwers, Globadiers or Rat Ogres. I may swap out the slaves for some Plague Monks, especially if it's my main army with Lord Skrolk. A warplightning cannon instead of a catapult.

With ambushes I usually divide my army in two and ambush from both sides at the same time, surrounding the enemy and flanking with warpfire throwers and globadiers. My artillary are usually placed a fair distance off looking down the enemy column from the front or back.

During the campaign I also tend to have a throwaway warlord leading an army made up of about 3 clanrat units and the rest slaves. The extra bodies are used to swarm the walls during sieges, either using ladders or going through holes in the walls.

I find magic is a big help for Skaven armies. Pestilent Breath is fantastic for grouped enemy units while Wither is great for basically anything. Those are the two spells I use the most. Plague is alright but I find it doesn't deal that much damage. Bless with Filth is kind of eh. Vermintide and Pestient Birth are nice (especially with the mod that stops summons from degrading).
Warplightning is great for units on walls and in tight groups, Death Frenzy would be nice against armies that cause fear like the undead. I'm not that impressed by Scorch and haven't used Crack's Call enough to really say much about it though I think you need to overcast it to get good usage. Skitterleap is fun to use on assassins and with other buffs I've gotten assassins that move at light cavalry speeds.

[Tack]

Something that took the entire caimpaign for me to figure out is that cones can be aimed freely from the target point.

Another fun hack, holding alt lets you free aim artillery fire.

[Retropunch]

I go a lot heavier on the storm vermin in my armies - I swap out clanrats for them whenever I can as they're able to handle a lot more punishment and deal some moderate damage rather than clanrats which sometimes seem to be just expensive skavenslaves. I've found that stormvermin + Lord with a few buffs are a great front line that can hold it down whilst my death globadiers and warpfire throwers can get in place and my plague priest censer bearers flank.

A hell pit abomination does great work for one slot - it's not great compared to other monsters, but I add as many speed and charge buffs as I can on it and just use it to smash into the side of the main line of enemy units in sort of hit and run type tactics. It's pretty much the only unit I micro around and take it where it's needed.

[Teneb]

Something you can do as Skaven is have one main stack being constantly followed by another with 19 skavenslaves to act as the chaff Skaven deserve to have.