Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Sheb]

Outlawed Tesla? How does that even make sense?

[sluissa]

Basically tesla doesn't sell their cars through middleman dealers. Some places with powerful car lobbies have outlawed this.

[RedKing]

Actually, a lot of states have. Chris Christie signed a bill in NJ to ban them there. Though on further research, the NC bill was killed after a legal challenge. So yay?

And yeah, their argument is that the Tesla model (directly-owned stores rather than franchises) is somehow unfair to them and bad for consumers. See, when you go to a Ford dealership, Ford doesn't own that place. The dealer is a middleman (which is why you see a lot of dealerships that have multiple brands of vehicle under the same roof). Incidentally, that's also why cars are more expensive than they need to be, because the dealer is making a pretty heft mark-up in most cases.

This all came about because in the early days of the auto industry, the car makers didn't have the money to also be the car sellers. So they turned to franchises because it was cheap -- let some other mook pay the cost of the building and the workers, and you just sell him the cars. Franchises often got kind of shit on by the manufacturers (we sold you a bad car? oh well, fuck you), so they formed a trade association which became rather potent over the years (and then passed their behavior on to customers -- we sold you a bad car? oh well, fuck you).

Tesla is operating more like Apple, where they only sell in their stores, and they own the stores.

[smjjames]

Outlawed Tesla? How does that even make sense?

It makes sense to the republicans because climate change denial and also oil.

[wierd]

The counter argument of "whaaaaaa, that's not fair to middle men like meeeeeee!!" is to remind the dealerships that they can always leverage things like the First Sale Doctrine (which would at least be partially applicable to Tesla vehicles, because they use a LOT of software inside) to buy Tesla vehicles from either end users doing trade-ins, or from Tesla's store directly, to have them for sale on the lot. 

What they DONT get to do, is be the exclusive source for those vehicles, or have the right to the lowest sales prices/highest profit margin.

There are any number of real situations where a consumer may be willing to pay a higher local price than they would have to pay at another retailer.  For instance, Tesla may not want to install Tesla Motors stores in cities below a certain population density. (They arent pulling a Walmart here.)  Or, they may not be willing to arrange trade-ins for not Tesla vehicles since their stores are not dealerships.  In those cases, a consumer who only has a finite amount of expendable time may consider the time savings when purchasing to be of sufficient value to warrant the added cost of the sale-- Or may consider the added equity of the prior vehicle entering the transaction to be sufficiently great to nod at the nigher sales price for the Tesla vehicle. 

The profit margins will naturally be smaller, and competition between dealers to better offer these "hot products" will further cut into those, but Tesla is by no means the ONLY retailer. They CAN sell Tesla vehicles, they just cant get them at deep discount prices and then jack the prices up 500%.  What they CAN do, is become a Tesla certified/authorized repair/service center, then purchase and repair old Tesla vehicles for resale-- and purchase brand new Tesla vehicles from the Tesla store, and offer them at a modest markup (say, 10 to 20%).

But telling the actual TRUTH like that doesnt get simpering idiots in the electorate to sympathize with blocking Teslans stores, allowing them to retain the power to charge the 500% markup.

That's why they scream about how terribly unfair it is that they have to actually engage in market capitalism, instead of market cronyism.

[Shadowlord]

That was a confusing post.

[smjjames]

That was a confusing post.

Basically the auto makers and their lobbyists don't want to loosen their monopoly on the system they use.

And probably keep electric cars from threatening their internal combustion engine monopoly. Despite the fact that they could easily develop their own electric only cars if they really wanted to and there are plenty of hybrid cars already on the market.

Kasich: 'I don’t know if my purpose is to be president' According to the article, he also seems to suggest that he has already won, though by what metric other than his own, I have no idea.

Even in Ohio and Michigan where he is apparently pinning his hopes, he is being beaten by Trump, everywhere else, he is second to last or last.

[Shadowlord]

That was a confusing post.

Basically the auto makers and their lobbyists don't want to loosen their monopoly on the system they use.

And probably keep electric cars from threatening their internal combustion engine monopoly. Despite the fact that they could easily develop their own electric only cars if they really wanted to and there are plenty of hybrid cars already on the market.

It's not that I don't understand that, because I do, and already did. It was just... Confusingly written?

[smjjames]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/02/donald-trump-lawyer-ted-cruz-nevada-219681

More possible Ted Cruz sheneinighans. Not sure what 'suspicious' things Cruz wants people to be on the lookout for (especially when it's his campaign that's being accused of dirty tricks) and while I get it about not videotaping at polling sites, but if someone is doing something that is illegal, than yeah by all means videotape.

It might be that nothing comes of it, but it seems to be introducing unneccesary paranoia into the proccess.

[RedKing]

Saw where Cruz is now backing Trump's idea of a "deportation force" that would actively hunt for illegal immigrants. 


Couple of new polls, from Texas and Ohio:

Ohio (GOP):

Trump 31
Kasich 26
Cruz 21
Rubio 13
Carson 5

Trump's been holding server in Ohio at +5 over Kasich since late September 2015. While it wouldn't take a tremendous shift to put Kasich over the top, getting Trump below 30% with far fewer candidates in the field than in Iowa is going to be a challenge. He has a relatively high floor, thanks to the Trumpenstaffel.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ohio (Dem):

Clinton 55
Sanders 40

Texas (GOP):

Cruz 37
Trump 29
Rubio 15
Kasich 5
Carson 4
Bush 6 (poll was started prior to Jeb! dropping out)

Ben....bro....when you're losing to a guy who's not even running anymore, God's telling you it's time to hang it up.

Texas (Dem):

Clinton 54
Sanders 44

While Sanders has cut the lead in half in Texas, it's not a good sign that Hillary is still winning the Hispanic vote there 60-37. If Sanders could flip that ratio, he could win Texas. But he's only got a week to do so, and that would be a huge flip. And given the delegate total involved, Texas is key for him to narrow the gap as much as possible. A 10-point loss in Texas hurts more than a 12-point loss in Ohio.

[sluissa]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The counter argument of "whaaaaaa, that's not fair to middle men like meeeeeee!!" is to remind the dealerships that they can always leverage things like the First Sale Doctrine (which would at least be partially applicable to Tesla vehicles, because they use a LOT of software inside) to buy Tesla vehicles from either end users doing trade-ins, or from Tesla's store directly, to have them for sale on the lot. 

What they DONT get to do, is be the exclusive source for those vehicles, or have the right to the lowest sales prices/highest profit margin.

There are any number of real situations where a consumer may be willing to pay a higher local price than they would have to pay at another retailer.  For instance, Tesla may not want to install Tesla Motors stores in cities below a certain population density. (They arent pulling a Walmart here.)  Or, they may not be willing to arrange trade-ins for not Tesla vehicles since their stores are not dealerships.  In those cases, a consumer who only has a finite amount of expendable time may consider the time savings when purchasing to be of sufficient value to warrant the added cost of the sale-- Or may consider the added equity of the prior vehicle entering the transaction to be sufficiently great to nod at the nigher sales price for the Tesla vehicle. 

The profit margins will naturally be smaller, and competition between dealers to better offer these "hot products" will further cut into those, but Tesla is by no means the ONLY retailer. They CAN sell Tesla vehicles, they just cant get them at deep discount prices and then jack the prices up 500%.  What they CAN do, is become a Tesla certified/authorized repair/service center, then purchase and repair old Tesla vehicles for resale-- and purchase brand new Tesla vehicles from the Tesla store, and offer them at a modest markup (say, 10 to 20%).

But telling the actual TRUTH like that doesnt get simpering idiots in the electorate to sympathize with blocking Teslans stores, allowing them to retain the power to charge the 500% markup.

That's why they scream about how terribly unfair it is that they have to actually engage in market capitalism, instead of market cronyism.

That's all a little unfair to dealers. They are useless parasites, relics of a bygone era, but they don't make 500% markup. They often have to sell at or below their profit line in order to make numbers for the manufacturer. They get bonuses to make up for that a little from the manufacturers, but without good numbers they can also lose their francise.

[mainiac]

If stupid Rubio would only drop out, Kasich could easily win Ohio.    Meanwhile Rubio doesn't have a prayer in Texas with or without Kasich.

[RedKing]

If stupid Rubio would only drop out, Kasich could easily win Ohio.    Meanwhile Rubio doesn't have a prayer in Texas with or without Kasich.

This is probably true. Considering how poorly Rubio is polling in many places, it's going to encourage Kasich to stay in. But Kasich is a feast-or-famine candidate, it seems -- he's either in the low 20s (if it's an upper Midwest or Northeastern state) or the single digits (South and West). Those places where Kasich is in the toilet is going to encourage Rubio to stay in. And together, they'll split the establishment vote and enable Der Trumpening to continue unabated.

Kasich's advantage is that he hasn't pissed off any other camps, so there's still a chance to gain defectors. Trump-Cruz and Rubio-Cruz has been nasty enough that Cruz's supporters are unlikely to jump to those camps (although they're also unlikely to side behind Kasich, who they see as a RINO). Likewise, Rubio seems to have pissed off enough factions that he'll find it hard to gain support. And Trump....well, Trump gonna be Trump. It's would actually be amusing if Cruz fell apart and his supporters flocked to Carson just because they had no other alternative they could stomach.  Carson's supporters are unlikely to return the favor, as they view the mess in Iowa as a backstab that cost the Good Doctor his chance to win (not really, but these people are supporting Ben Carson, so they're not exactly grounded in reality to start with).

The real question is how long does the butthurt last? Let's say Cruz's campaign takes a fatal blow from Trump, or Rubio's from Cruz. And then the "dirty trickster" gets the nomination. Against Hillary Clinton, do they hold their nose and vote R, do they hop the aisle and vote for her, or do they stay home and prepare for the coming apocalypse?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So my pact to euthanize America by voting Trump in a Trump-Clinton election has actually started expanding among my friend group.

Let this motherfucker burn.

[RedKing]

Thank you for reminding me of option 4: Actively bring about the oncoming apocalypse.


EDIT: Spike Lee endorsed Bernie Sanders. Which would be nice, if anybody still gave a shit about Spike Lee.