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[mainiac]

And nah, mainiac, far as I'm aware it's run the course several times already. Think they've just started up another one or somethin'. They can't seem to find anything more damaging, somehow.

But they can get denials of guilt, which are far more useful.

[FearfulJesuit]

I think, too, that looking at the Pope's visit through the American left/right dichotomy isn't necessarily the most enlightening view. The Pope does not care one whit where he falls on the American political spectrum- why should he? Catholic doctrine and rhetoric is a product of two thousand years of its own tradition and development, almost all of it outside the United States, and the development of the modern American political spectrum doesn't have much to do with it. It's not terribly surprising that the head of an institution that has sharply criticized both sides of modern American politics (and sees things through a different lens) would be interested in making both sides uncomfortable. I may not agree with Francis's stance on gay marriage- but that's not the point.

And, as pointed out, I don't think the issue here for the Pope is gay marriage per se, but religious freedom and the right of dissenting civil servants to conscientiously object. Personally, my stance is "if you want to work for the government, play by its rules," and like most liberals I think Davis is making a mountain out of a molehill. However, considering that Francis's experience with government power is likely quite different from that of the average American (Dirty War-era Argentina wasn't exactly a place where you wanted to conscientiously object), the meeting's not exactly out of the blue.

[smjjames]

@Frumple, I just mean that she needs to be able to defend herself. Though the republican candidates haven't gone into much detail beyond 'worst Seceretary of State EVAH' that she can concretely defend against.

While I doubt there will be any Seceretary of State related questions in the October 13th debate directed entirely at Hillary, I'm sure there will be foriegn policy stuff that connects in some way to her tenure as Seceretary of State.

Not that the republicans are going to believe a word that she or Bill says anyway.

[mainiac]

Well she did murder Vince Foster after all.  With her bare hands.  As he begged for his life.

[penguinofhonor]

smj: Bill did defend her over the emails at one point. Hasn't she defended herself publicly? If she's been avoiding it that's a little weird, but I don't see a problem with Bill answering questions about her. I'm sure a lot of the other candidates' spouses have been asked about them. They just don't get as much publicity as an ex-president.

Is there a reason you brought up Carly Fiorina as a counter example? Do you think this is a gender thing? I'm not saying you do, but when people compare Hilary to Fiorina it's usually a gender thing.

I thought it was a really good interview. I just wanted to make sure that wasn't just my pro-Bill bias.

[smjjames]

smj: Bill did defend her over the emails at one point. Hasn't she defended herself publicly? If she's been avoiding it that's a little weird, but I don't see a problem with Bill answering questions about her. I'm sure a lot of the other candidates' spouses have been asked about them. They just don't get as much publicity as an ex-president.

Is there a reason you brought up Carly Fiorina as a counter example? Do you think this is a gender thing? I'm not saying you do, but when people compare Hilary to Fiorina it's usually a gender thing.

I thought it was a really good interview. I just wanted to make sure that wasn't just my pro-Bill bias.

I wasn't talking about the emails (and I agree that she's pretty much said all that can be said on it), I just thought she needs to defend herself more on the republican accusations, which can be done during the debates. Although the route she has taken, the high road, is probably a good one for now.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So apparently while he was here, the Pope met with Kim Davis. And reportedly backed her.

Suddenly, all those US progressives that have been wearing Pope t-shirts are going, "Wait wha??"

I can't believe I'm saying it, but I'm so glad he came here now. People need to get in their heads what religion means, not compartmentalizing it out of political ideology.

[smjjames]

So apparently while he was here, the Pope met with Kim Davis. And reportedly backed her.

Suddenly, all those US progressives that have been wearing Pope t-shirts are going, "Wait wha??"

I can't believe I'm saying it, but I'm so glad he came here now. People need to get in their heads what religion means, not compartmentalizing it out of political ideology.

I'm pretty sure he only made the compartmentalization (and the political divide) worse since the far right people are just going to push harder now that they think the Pope gave them his blessing.

Honestly, I think he shouldn't have waded into American politics at all.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So apparently while he was here, the Pope met with Kim Davis. And reportedly backed her.

Suddenly, all those US progressives that have been wearing Pope t-shirts are going, "Wait wha??"

I can't believe I'm saying it, but I'm so glad he came here now. People need to get in their heads what religion means, not compartmentalizing it out of political ideology.

I'm pretty sure he only made the compartmentalization (and the political divide) worse since the far right people are just going to push harder now that they think the Pope gave them his blessing.

Honestly, I think he shouldn't have waded into American politics at all.

Ah, but you see, the far-right have already denounced Pope Francis as a Marxist devil-worshiper.

Ironically, this includes Kim Davis, who is a Oneness Pentecostal, and therefore denies the doctrine of the Trinity but instead declares God one whole being, which is literally heresy to the RCC. By contrast, many Oneness Pentecostals decry the RCC as servants of the Antichrist.

No matter what happens at this point, religion loses and therefore I win.

[RedKing]

No matter what happens at this point, religion loses and therefore I win.

MSH confirmed for atheist Antichrist. So devious, he even denies his own existence.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

No matter what happens at this point, religion loses and therefore I win.

MSH confirmed for atheist Antichrist. So devious, he even denies his own existence.

No joke, if Satan asked me to do his bidding I'd probably be down.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

No matter what happens at this point, religion loses and therefore I win.

MSH confirmed for atheist Antichrist. So devious, he even denies his own existence.

No joke, if Satan asked me to do his bidding I'd probably be down.

Seconded.

[Frumple]

To be fair, the thing is one of the biblical entities most amicable towards humans. Plenty of damnation, but comparatively little genocide and murder and whatnot, and usually pretty up for actually helping people out. Maybe not in the most beneficial of ways, and occasionally a bit of possession and/or insanity, but compared to a pillar of salt a bit of sin and no starvation is a pretty good deal. There's worse things to make a compact with, and for most people the ultimate price is something that they would have already paid.

Also got that whole antichrist the peacemaker thing lined up, supposedly. That'll be as neat a hat trick as being obama, islam, atheism, and hundreds (thousands, etc.) of different people, organizations, and ideologies, all at the same time. Kinda' makes me think they lowballed the number of heads in revelations, honestly. Probably going to need more heads.

[Loud Whispers]

No matter what happens at this point, religion loses and therefore I win.

MSH confirmed for atheist Antichrist. So devious, he even denies his own existence.

No joke, if Satan asked me to do his bidding I'd probably be down.

I wouldn't be able to do his bidding, I'd be too busy making jokes about Dante and et tu Brute and battle philosophers

[smjjames]

Carson goes and invokes hitler at someone he says it's clear who he is saying is like hitler. Probably Clinton, maybe Trump. http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/30/politics/ben-carson-nazi-germany-hitler/index.html There is a real facedesk moment at the end of the article though:

Meanwhile, as he was leaving the event, a reporter asked Carson how he would respond to Hurricane Joaquin if he were in the White House.

"I don't know," he replied.

I mentally facedesked (or maybe double facepalmed) when I saw that he had said that. Come on, there are some basic common sense answers that he could have given. If he had made that blunder during a debate, it would really have killed his campaign.