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I like it better than the last one

It's good, but I don't see the need with the discussion thread

It's not going to go anywhere good, just lock it now.

[Bohandas]

So if I want to stab someone, I should? That'd be the path of least resistance.

Also, please don't garble your posts like that. It doesn't add anything.

Sreised rouy tsuj nath xelpmoc reom far are you, osla. Esoprup bad the is tath, trats a for.
Secnequesnoc the to due elbaersim be to tneam lybaborp eerw you but, lyekil not is reutan rouy morf ngikearb, to tneam lybaborp eerw you nath eneomos bats lyluatca you if...
Ertteb ngithemos dnif to ertteb...

You may have suffered a left-hemispheric stroke. You should contact a doctor immediately.

[Orange Wizard]

RAM, why do you keep doing that? It achieves pretty much nothing, other than confusing us. Unless that's your goal, in which case I must attest that there are much more efficient methods.

[smeeprocket]

All people:

According to your respective religions, what is the meaning of life?

To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women, obviously.

That there, has and always will be what is best in life. Preach it!

[UXLZ]

@Arcvasti:

What do you think of my epiphany?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All (who believe a 'God(s)' is real):
Where do your think your 'God(s)' came from originally? Was It simply 'always there', or was there an actual creation?

Here's my perspective (it's worth noting, in general, that I'm a liberal Methodist from a generally cynical and intelligent religious family):

John 1:1-3, in the Greek, reads "en arche en ho logos, kai ho logos en pros ton theon, kai theos en ho logos." (I can't find a decent online Greek Bible, sorry. Only the transliteration.)

"In the beginning was (the) reason, and (the) reason was with God, and (the) reason was God."

The Greek logos denotes thought or reason and speech. It seems to me that therefore God would be the first thing to exist. There can be no universe without reason. Reason is what brought the universe into being as something comprehensible. The internal thought, logos, became the external word, logos.

This is a little bit speculative, and I'm not sure it answers all of my own questions.

It's also worth noting that no version of the beginning of the universe escapes the old lady's "turtles all the way down."

Noting oneself as intelligent is the height of folly.

Mmm... Might bring more meaning to the Tower of Babel, since that was heavily involved with speech (I believe)

Another thing worth noting is that this could also suggest that God, in a way, came from 'Humans'. Rather, if we take humans as having a special kind of 'reason' then when the first human came to be, so did God, as God was with our minds within our minds, It was our minds. Actually, holy crap (pardon the usage of 'holy' like that in a thread like this >_>), epiphany! 'God' is actually our ability to think, decide, reason, etc. It's suggesting that 'God' was born with the first human, they came into being at the same time. Think of it this way, God 'created' humans, and what defines humans more than our logos? 'Adam' was created by God less in the literal sense and more in the sense that God is what made Adam human.

Of course, this goes totally against normal teachings. It's still an incredibly interesting take on just what God actually is. Hell, we can actually apply this theory to nearly everything (that I can think of at the moment >_>) in the Bible. God being humankind's ability to reason, that is.

I guess that's another theory to add to my ever-growing list. Damn agnosticism. xD

In regards to the last part, I totally agree with that, hence this (part of a) post:

Even from a non-religious standpoint the creation of All That Is is a kind of an iffy topic. The true understanding that something has simply existed forever, or that something was simply created from true, utter nothingness is basically incomprehensible to humans. That the universe simply sprang from nothingness, or was always there, or that God sprang from nothingness then created the universe, or was always there and then created the universe, they are all equally impossible to comprehend. God just adds another factor into the equation.

[smeeprocket]

So I'm an atheist but I wanted to answer with the meaning of life.

In the grand scale of things, it means nothing at all. It isn't even a blip, it's completely inconsequential. Your existence will have no lasting impact.

In the other hand, the atoms that make you will go on forever, and you will be reabsorbed, so to speak, and reused in a variety of ways, redistributed piece by piece.

When you die you will cease to exist. There will be no understanding of this because it is nothing. You will have no reflections, no contemplation, your consciousness will end. I suppose it doesn't help that I find that immensely comforting, I feel like I should not, because that lends to wanting it to be true, not using evidence.

On a very small, minute scale, the things you do do matter though. They affect the people around you and the world you live in. We do not live very long, so that's the important part for us. We can not properly perceive the time the universe has been around or will continue for, I am fairly certain it is not easy for anyone to wrap their brain around that kind of time. The meaning of life is what you make of it, it is what you want out of it, what you can get from it. My goal is to try to make life better for others, because seeing someone suffering, when we have so little time to exist in the first place, that's not right. Something good should happen for people before they are brought to an end. Because that is what will make their life matter.

[Arcvasti]

@Arcvasti:

What do you think of my epiphany?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All (who believe a 'God(s)' is real):
Where do your think your 'God(s)' came from originally? Was It simply 'always there', or was there an actual creation?

Here's my perspective (it's worth noting, in general, that I'm a liberal Methodist from a generally cynical and intelligent religious family):

John 1:1-3, in the Greek, reads "en arche en ho logos, kai ho logos en pros ton theon, kai theos en ho logos." (I can't find a decent online Greek Bible, sorry. Only the transliteration.)

"In the beginning was (the) reason, and (the) reason was with God, and (the) reason was God."

The Greek logos denotes thought or reason and speech. It seems to me that therefore God would be the first thing to exist. There can be no universe without reason. Reason is what brought the universe into being as something comprehensible. The internal thought, logos, became the external word, logos.

This is a little bit speculative, and I'm not sure it answers all of my own questions.

It's also worth noting that no version of the beginning of the universe escapes the old lady's "turtles all the way down."

Noting oneself as intelligent is the height of folly.

Mmm... Might bring more meaning to the Tower of Babel, since that was heavily involved with speech (I believe)

Another thing worth noting is that this could also suggest that God, in a way, came from 'Humans'. Rather, if we take humans as having a special kind of 'reason' then when the first human came to be, so did God, as God was with our minds within our minds, It was our minds. Actually, holy crap (pardon the usage of 'holy' like that in a thread like this >_>), epiphany! 'God' is actually our ability to think, decide, reason, etc. It's suggesting that 'God' was born with the first human, they came into being at the same time. Think of it this way, God 'created' humans, and what defines humans more than our logos? 'Adam' was created by God less in the literal sense and more in the sense that God is what made Adam human.

Of course, this goes totally against normal teachings. It's still an incredibly interesting take on just what God actually is. Hell, we can actually apply this theory to nearly everything (that I can think of at the moment >_>) in the Bible. God being humankind's ability to reason, that is.

I guess that's another theory to add to my ever-growing list. Damn agnosticism. xD

In regards to the last part, I totally agree with that, hence this (part of a) post:

Even from a non-religious standpoint the creation of All That Is is a kind of an iffy topic. The true understanding that something has simply existed forever, or that something was simply created from true, utter nothingness is basically incomprehensible to humans. That the universe simply sprang from nothingness, or was always there, or that God sprang from nothingness then created the universe, or was always there and then created the universe, they are all equally impossible to comprehend. God just adds another factor into the equation.

I'm not entirely sure. "Made in His own image" definitely refers to the ability to reason. Certainly interesting.

RE: Meaning of Life:

Obvious answer:
42

Serious answer:
Personally, I believe that the[philosophical] purpose of life is to understand and learn as much as possible while not limiting the capacity of others to do the same.

[TD1]

What do y'all think of Swinburne's Cumulative argument?
(That religious experiences, when added to all other arguments for God's existence, show God to be more likely to exist than to not exist.)

I personally think Cole's Leaky Bucket Analogy bucket sums up the problem- many holey buckets together will still not hold water.

So, in other words, do you think religious experiences "Tips the balance decisively in the favour of God's existence," as Swinburne states?

[Arx]

many holy buckets together will still not hold water.

FTFY.

I think it would be unprovable either way, except for religious experiences. So I guess I'm in favour?

[Sheb]

Well, people report having religious experience when some area of the temporal lobe is stimulated, so we don't need a god to explain religious experience.

[TD1]

Indeed.

That's a major flaw in it for me as well. Persinger's God Helmet experiment showed people having religious experiences at the flick of a switch.

[Bohandas]

What do y'all think of Swinburne's Cumulative argument?
(That religious experiences, when added to all other arguments for God's existence, show God to be more likely to exist than to not exist.)

Religious experiences can be reproduced in a wholly mundane manner through the use of psychadelic mushrooms, psilocybin, peyote, and/or LSD

EDIT:
And this is to the extent that seeing god has even become one of the major cliches for the kind of thing that happens when you take acid, along with synesthesia and melting walls.

[scrdest]

Seems to me like citing conversion disorders as a proof of a new, completely invisible disease. Brains be cray.

[ggamer]

haha oh wow

sorry i've been gone since thanksgiving what happened to the old thread?

(You can pm me if it's too scandalous)

[TD1]

Cryxis locked it, flame war swept through the forums, which were brought down for a bit to deal with it, then when it was all cleared up Toady had asked for it to remain locked.

Edit: The flame war only had the faintest of links to the thread, though.

[Arx]

Started getting a little heated, Cryxis put a temp lock on it, Toady decided it should stay that way.

Re: Swinburne, these responses make it seem to me that to a believer it validates their position, but to a non-believer it's meaningless.