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[Corsair]

((Greetings hep people, hope this is the right place for this, after I arrive on ship I will have a 15 tokens total to spend on powerarmour of some description and was wondering if there was anything along those lines I should be aware of for components/upgrades of and/or full suits of powerarmour. Also are you able/allowed to customise armours to a specific role [similar to how the battlesuits came with variants].))

[Nikitian]

@Syvarris See? Do you still think the Council deserves to run Tinker? Or to continue to exist?

Tinker is increasingly the rope I gave others with which to hang me.

February 07, 2014.  Increasingly.

Sudden insight: Piecewise loves Tinker. Because Tinker is his personal technique of you-know-what-kind asphyxiation. And by now he's simply addicted to he pleasure!
^{_{Here goes another assassin squad...}}
Wunderkinder Project discussion

Spoiler: Intro (click to show/hide)

...This is an increasingly difficult topic to address. Mostly because I still don't know what real-world rules apply to ERverse, but partly because sometimes I think I know about those real-world rules, and this shackles me down.

For example, a thought that has crossed my mind is that one cannot simply instil loyalty/duty in true scientists. True scientists are probably very curious and open-minded in nature; the concepts of duty and loyalty are best lodged in minds of warriors 'caste', and this is the one type of people we are possibly trying to avoid here. Then again, there are, after all, numerous examples of scientists showing certain kind of loyalty and duty in times of trouble for their country - WWII, for example.
...This is really hard.

Spoiler: @syvarris (click to show/hide)

I like this idea of semi-religion. Wherever it falls on the spectrum of "Modern Philosophy of Science", as Ozarck put it, to "Cult of the Machine God" (except the whole, you know, "abhor the progress" part of the latter), it is indeed what we are looking for. Paris's idea of using Wayfarers' experience and approach might especially have merit, since we now have a healthy chunk of believers on Hephaestus (~1/4th of construction crews/science teams members, give or take, probably).
Similarly, I thought that the primary concept we should teach is the pursuit of knowledge, indeed; but secondary concept should be something along the lines of ethics and/or duty - believing that whatever they do is for the Greater Good. The concept of 'the Adversary' that I wanted to introduce serves this same purpose, too; while I can see how it can theoretically cause certain thought stagnation, I hoped that it can help to put them in the sufficiently 'emergency' state of "War threatens homeland!" and bring out their best ability and duty, simultaneously. Might or might not work with perpetuality of this kind of 'emergency'; we might have to run a second generation with some Space Russian genes thrown in the mix for that 

Spoiler: @Parisbre56 (click to show/hide)

1)Open-mindedness is not really a danger when properly understood and controlled. Hence why I brought up that we should compound our teachings by a ton of rationale (and good one, at that). ^{_{Irrelevant fun fact: I once wrote an essay in English concerning a similar theme, if anyone cared to read my ramblings.}}
Short version: Open-mindedness is superior to closed mind when you have the higher rational ground. It does not stint your intelligence and creativity the way closed mind does, yet if there is very efficient, very deep and far-reaching reasoning behind your current position, you can always walk away from enemy propaganda.
Then again, of course, this puts you in constant danger of something even more relevant ever coming up.
2)Apocalypse Lab. And good faith. Because when the house in on fire, a madman who decides to flood his apartment might just be right, in a certain way.

And I am pretty fine with that paradox; I am not a big fan of laissez-faire attitude, in general, but if that works then who am I to say otherwise. I mean, we player characters are already mostly free of Steve's control, yet he still employs us to great extent?
If needed, ARESTEVE could work out the surveillance. Or I could build a specialised wetware AI for that particular need.

Spoiler: Finally (click to show/hide)

Now, speaking of "emergency" and bringing out the best of these children, I wonder if it's a good idea to push their cognitive abilities to the limit all the time. Sure, give ways to vent the stress (Re: Families and worldly interests), but - harshly drive out the keenest edge of their minds.
Now, I don't think that it should be done in a competitive way; in general, I'd say competition (this harsh and vicious) is detrimental to scientific types of people - this isn't some "survival of the fittest". Yet giving an interesting task to solve, something to keep the wits sharp and the mind well-trained, seems to ring true for great many if not all scientists. In a way, this could be yet another way to 'hook' them (some of them, anyway) on this sort of life - where else in the galaxy could they find a constant stream of difficult, interesting and worthy problems to solve?

As for the concerns... There is a cryptic hint from Piecewise that "there's some backstabbing in those genes~", which I am moderately concerned about. It might pay in the long run to work out some safety measures just in case.

((Greetings hep people, hope this is the right place for this, after I arrive on ship I will have a 15 tokens total to spend on powerarmour of some description and was wondering if there was anything along those lines I should be aware of for components/upgrades of and/or full suits of powerarmour. Also are you able/allowed to customise armours to a specific role [similar to how the battlesuits came with variants].))

There is not much in the way of customization possible, but the best we can offer for 15 token is an assaultsuit. Given that your character apparently has +2 Aux, he should be able to pilot it, and that is the absolute best sort of 'power armor' you can buy for 15 tokens. There also is old and near-obsolete Protectorate Suit and Syvarris's updated Milnoplate (the latter possibly being prototyped for the next mission), but they don't get you nearly that much bang for your buck. You could also try and wait out on Sean's new Assaultsuit variant with integrated weapons, but it might or might not be finished and prototyped in time for the next mission.

[syvarris]

Spoiler: Ubermunchkins conversation (click to show/hide)

@Paris

1)As Ozarck said, this is the danger of open-mindedness.  I don't think it's a large problem, because we'd intentionally be creating a close-minded religion.  These children would, for their entire lives, be taught that one central goal overrules all else; why would any philosophy which doesn't ascribe to the same insane point of view change their minds?  Especially considering the fact that they're pretty sheltered, in the safest place we have?  Anyway, even if some do develop this problem, we can always just deport dissenters. 

2)I'm not 100% sure about the risk here.  A dead world is obviously a bad outcome, because everyone's dead, ergo nobody is left to do science; Why would one of the kids create one?  A quiet world isn't necessarily bad for us (unless PW wrests control from players).  I think I'd like to play a character running a quiet world...

In terms of dealing with a hypothetical 'absolute truth' which is so irresistible that it must be believed, and which ends up having a negative effect on us... I've got no idea how to stop that.  Even having maximum security won't stop the kids; they're exceptionally smart, and can probably get around anything we set up.  Perhaps we could have intentional security flaws that are findable, but are actually false and only serve to detect traitors?

@Ozarck

I'm not sure?  Googling that term, it doesn't seem to be an actual codified thing, and the actual philosophy of science seems to vary between individuals.

Regardless, my idea probably isn't, because it's intentionally an irrational concept.  The religion should teach that scientific progress is more important than everything else.  Where a standard human would typically rank happiness as the most important goal, these children should rank learning in its place.  Where a normal person wishes to avoid sadness, these children should wish to avoid stagnation above all else.  They should be taught that a blind faith in scientific advancement will solve all problems, eventually.

This is because these children have a singular purpose and role: Advancing science.  Aside from that role, they are expendable and valueless.  They should be the best scientists we can create, and we don't need our scientists to be functional humans.  On the contrary, they should really be as inhuman as possible.

...Boy, I'm great at roleplaying a sociopath, aren't I? >.>

secondary concept should be something along the lines of ethics and/or duty - believing that whatever they do is for the Greater Good.

Yeah, I meant this to be implied.  If you value scientific progress above all else, and believe it to be the solution to all problems, then any ethical system aside from outright causing problems would naturally lead to furthering scientific progress.

I hoped that it can help to put them in the sufficiently 'emergency' state of "War threatens homeland!" and bring out their best ability and duty, simultaneously.

I think a better 'emergency' would be the UWM.  They have far more raw power than us, and are fighting for technological stagnation--which stands in for hell.  They are pretty much as close as possible to literal devil worshippers, from these kid's perspective.

Irrelevant fun fact: I once wrote an essay in English concerning a similar theme, if anyone cared to read my ramblings.

I care to.

Open-mindedness is superior to closed mind when you have the higher rational ground.

Problematically, though... we don't really have a higher rational ground, unless you cahnge the definition of 'rational', as I'm suggesting.  The UWM has a tech ban for a damn good reason, and overall is a far safer bet than the ARM, if you're a rational human being.  We're the Sith, not the rebel alliance.

As for the concerns... There is a cryptic hint from Piecewise that "there's some backstabbing in those genes~", which I am moderately concerned about. It might pay in the long run to work out some safety measures just in case.

Gaaaah, this is important and useful information!  What's with you people and secret PM conversations, it only helps PW fuck us over...

@Corsair

I'm gonna agree with Nik here, and say an Assaultsuit is a good choice.  I suggest you get a mobility variant, which trades some survivability for flight.

Another option is a Heavy Robotic Body (That thing Yaroslav was testing), which is basically the same as a mobility variant assaultsuit except it's small enough to easily go almost anywhere your comrades can go, and you can't exit it because you're a brain in a body, rather than a pilot in a cockpit.

[Ozarck]

Read the spoilers only if you care about philosophy and aren't already well educated about it. they aren't long, but they arne't interesting either.

Spoiler: On Philosophical Scientism (click to show/hide)

The Modern concept of Science is that it was essentially not only a path to knowledge, but, almost like a force of nature, it is the process by which all truth could be discovered and mastered. Science became the sole judge of Truth, and therefore of right and wrong, and faith in science as an absolute source of truth and method of arriving at all knowledge influenced pretty much every aspect of life. Sure the average person holds a variety of other views, but I know a great many people who hold this as, if not THE central aspect of their world, then at least one of them.

Spoiler: On Postmodern skepticism (click to show/hide)

I might be describing it a tad poorly, but it is a known historical worldview. Postmodernism, by contrast, tend to take Nietchze, Hume, and (The third guy escapes me ... not Hegel?)'s skepticism more seriously, and questions our ability to know truth, and even the possibility that truth COULD be known.

On A lighter note, I moved over to my computer desk, and every time I want to move the cursor, I reach for my other mouse, and wonder why I can't find my cursor. I've done this at least six times now.

[Radio Controlled]

Gaaaah, this is important and useful information!  What's with you people and secret PM conversations, it only helps PW fuck us over...

Because it's just so much fun!

[Sean Mirrsen]

PW fucking us over is kind of the name of the game, here.

[Comrade P.]

Gaaaah, this is important and useful information!  What's with you people and secret PM conversations, it only helps PW fuck us over...

So secret PM conversations is a thing. I guessed there was something to ER going unnoticed by the newer folks like me. Well this confirms it.

[Radio Controlled]

Nobody in ER knows everything about ER.

Not even the gm.

[Empiricist]

Nobody in ER knows everything about ER.

That is why we perform penetration testing on armor here on Heph. We believe that the secrets of the universe are encoded in their thickness.

[Comrade P.]

Nobody in ER knows everything about ER.

That is why we perform penetration testing on armor here on Heph. We believe that the secrets of the universe are encoded in their thickness.

I thought it was local analogue of waterboarding the GM. Like, trying to make him break down in order to do something you want.

[Empiricist]

Nobody in ER knows everything about ER.

That is why we perform penetration testing on armor here on Heph. We believe that the secrets of the universe are encoded in their thickness.

I thought it was local analogue of waterboarding the GM. Like, trying to make him break down in order to do something you want.

That too.

[Radio Controlled]

After talking with tryar, we've come up with a system for the limbs replacement thing. Here's what we've got:

- A box of sharkmist to grow limbs costs 10 tokens. We would basically buy one of these, and keep it on the sword itself and grow limbs, and just hand out packs of limbs for people to carry along on mission. Less risks and such, less weight to lug around. Limbs works for robots and fleshies (far as I know, need to double check).
- One needs a 3 token gurney box carrying all the tools to do the operation in the field. Is rather heavy, needs a robot to carry it. Medic would probably have to buy this himself.
- We'll look into designing a carrying unit that can carry this box, would cost something like 3 tokens. I'm thinking 4 legs that can be folded in, and with wheels on the side, so the legs would only need to be used on bad terrain/stairs, it can just drive around (and be much quicker, mind) the rest of the time. No concrete plans yet on what would control it, maybe a simple computer or remote control.
- Limbs can be made interchangeable left/right, and maybe arm/feet, though performance loss is to be double checked.
- Team fund might be involved into buying a box and then selling the limbs, but we'll see about that (maybe 1 token per 3 or so limbs
- organs might be possible, but that's probably for later, let's see if the system works for limbs

Tryar, anything I forgot you wanted to add?

[Parisbre56]

Team fund might be involved into buying a box and then selling the limbs, but we'll see about that (maybe 1 token per 3 or so limbs

I disagree with this. It is completely unbalanced since it gives you limbs for free with no risk. Limbs and organs taken from the vat should cost something. Maybe 1 token a pair or 4 tokens for 2 full replacement sets+organs.

Also, any carrier should take into consideration that we might have to perform surgery somewhere with unfavourable atmosphere and thus an add-on or a package that provides that should be provided.

[AkumaKasai]

Team fund might be involved into buying a box and then selling the limbs, but we'll see about that (maybe 1 token per 3 or so limbs

I disagree with this. It is completely unbalanced since it gives you limbs for free with no risk. Limbs and organs taken from the vat should cost something. Maybe 1 token a pair or 4 tokens for 2 full replacement sets+organs.

Also, any carrier should take into consideration that we might have to perform surgery somewhere with unfavourable atmosphere and thus an add-on or a package that provides that should be provided.

We already have pressure tents for only two tokens. They're unarmored, but they'll work.

[Radio Controlled]

I disagree with this. It is completely unbalanced since it gives you limbs for free with no risk. Limbs and organs taken from the vat should cost something. Maybe 1 token a pair or 4 tokens for 2 full replacement sets+organs.

So 1 token for 3 limbs is 'completely unbalanced', but 1 token for 2 is fine you say?