Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Radio Controlled]

I'm starting to reconsider the last category, seeing Toaster's suit, but I don't know what its disadvantage is.  It must have one.

It loses the claymores and electrified defense, as well as the amp-hands, which I appear to have not put it on the wiki; whoops.  Notably, it does have full armor, but the gun itself (which is shoulder-mounted) has only light armor.  It's a "LESHO but bigger" and comes with six rounds, and the BS needs to anchor before firing.

Heavy ranged firepower. Sexy. Care to tell why you took that one above others?

[Toaster]

Sure!

Melee was straight out, since Lars is a Con expert and no skill in uncon.  Mobility and Urban (who differ only in loadout) were cut because they're lightly armored, more hit and run types, which doesn't fit with Lars (who prefers to stand and fight, letting faith be his shield.)  Extreme Environment went out too because Lars would prefer armor against bullets and lasers instead of unknowns.

Civilian Engagement is interesting, since it has a large set of anti-personnel weapons built in (flamethrowers, gas), but it is focused against unarmored targets, which pretty much any weapon we have wrecks already; it'd be best used against a LOT of unarmored targets. Plus, collateral damage.

That leaves Standard, Heavy Laser, and Long Range.  Heavy Laser was my first thought, but the Raduga is so good that I stuck with that instead.  I thought about the other two for a while, then decided that the loss of close-range engagement in exchange for an extreme range option better fit the idea of Lars; he's a great gunner, so why not play to his strengths?  Additionally, he's now covered with several different types of weapon, with the Raduga, Shard Launcher, battesuit cannon, and PEW.

(Thanks to the IRC folks who let me bounce this off their heads)

[Radio Controlled]

Airstrikes coming, get hype:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

19:08   <Radio_Controlled>: PW, I'm curious, would it be possible to make airstrikes a purchasable item?
19:08   <Shaporia>: Thanks
19:08   <Shaporia>: It's inspired by house on the hill, the board game thing.
19:08   <Illgeo>: Is there any difference if brains for manips used with consent?
19:09   <Piecewise>: Radio: how would that work, gameplay wise?
19:09   <Piecewise>: Illgeo: Not that I know of.
19:10   <Illgeo>: Can you make an wetware from brains of clones of one person?
19:10   <Illgeo>: *a
19:10   <Radio_Controlled>: I'm not sure. Maybe people buy a voucher to call in airstrikes? I'm talking directed things (eg shoot down those battlesuits over there) not the kind needed for a STAN event.
19:11   <Radio_Controlled>: Like how infantry would call in air support.
19:11   <Piecewise>: Illgeo: To a degree
19:11   <Illgeo>: Will it have that person personality?
19:11   <Piecewise>: Traces of it, perhaps
19:12   <Piecewise>: Radio: It's an acceptable IDea, but we'd need to think of how to handle it so it makes sense
19:12   <Radio_Controlled>: Well, I was thinking we could have Hep build a couple high-altitude precision gunships.
19:13   <Radio_Controlled>: In case the Sword is unavailable or unable to get a tergetting solution due to cloud cover or whatever.
19:13   <Piecewise>: Alright
19:13   <Radio_Controlled>: Problem is, who would wanna buy that? So, maybe we can find a system where the entire team gets a token deducted off their mission pay in exchange for an airstrike.
19:14   <Piecewise>: There's an argument waiting to happen
19:14   <Piecewise>: (Perfect)
19:15   <Radio_Controlled>: I know, but otherwise i don't think people will wanna shell out for it, like how almost nobody buys grenades. If we make it cheap enough though, it might work?
19:15   <Radio_Controlled>: And maybe let it use a roll to represent how well the person call in the strike or something? Or just roll for the strike itself.
19:16   <Radio_Controlled>: Or assume it's always flawless.
19:17   <Shaporia>: Guy: "I need an airstrike far infront of me!" (2) Guy: "Airstrike!" (1) Guy: "Airstrike, coordinate grid 1286.3, -1897.1." (5)
19:18   <Radio_Controlled>: 'airstrike, danger close!' while they fly away from the ordinance.
19:19   <Radio_Controlled>: Like a high-altitude mine or something.
19:19   <Shaporia>: (1) The missile has guidance systems. It's locked on you.
19:19   <Radio_Controlled>: I'm thinking missiles and a laser of variable power.
19:19   <SeanMirrsen>: So basically the Party Wagon.
19:19   <SeanMirrsen>: (perhaps with sub-megaton missiles)
19:20   <Radio_Controlled>: Maybe, 1 token per voucher, but using more vouchers means you can call in bigger strikes, or at different targets at the same time.
19:20   <Shaporia>: Maybe it's the pilot's roll.
19:20   <Shaporia>: You pay more tokens for a better pilot for the mission.
19:20   <Radio_Controlled>: That thing would be drone controlled, or that's a player never doing anything.
19:20   <Shaporia>: Yeah, controlled by an NPC.
19:21   <SeanMirrsen>: I think you can have it just hover there, but using it gives away its position to anything you might have been using it against.
19:21   <Radio_Controlled>: What do you think pw?
19:21   <SeanMirrsen>: So it's a limited-time offer.
19:21   <Radio_Controlled>: It'd be pretty high-altitude. And stealthed, if posssible.
19:22   <Radio_Controlled>: And that's only if the Sword itself isn't available to do the strike itself.
19:23   <Piecewise>: I'll think about it. Its a good idea but I gotta think about a way to make it work right that makes sense in world as well as in gameplay
19:23   <SeanMirrsen>: I think it should be a separate thing from Sword strikes at all. Like a team resource that doesn't detract from the team's score if it's used.
19:24   <SeanMirrsen>: I.e. you pay to have your team's shuttle equipped with weapons and have it stick around. You can use it whenever, but if it attracts attention to itself you might be losing both an investment and a chance at a timely extraction.
19:24   <Radio_Controlled>: Thanks pw. I'll let it rest for now then, tell us what you think of it later.
19:25   <Radio_Controlled>: The shuttle would be separate from the one ferrying troops.
19:25   <Shaporia>: By the way, piecewise, do you mind if I used something like your potion system for a game I'm making?
19:26   <Radio_Controlled>: I wonder what roll it should use thouhg. Aux seems obvious choice, but that skill is maybe overused already.
19:26   <Radio_Controlled>: Maybe Uncon? General knowledge?
19:26   <Shaporia>: Handiwork?
19:26   <Radio_Controlled>: Or maybe Con, if it requires a laser designator.
19:26   <SeanMirrsen>: Not Aux. Maybe Fate. Since it's purely the computer handling the drone that's doing the work.
19:27   <SeanMirrsen>: So it's down to your luck whether the thing hits the target like you want it.
19:27   <Radio_Controlled>: Or no stats at all and just a regular roll.
19:27   <Radio_Controlled>: Though then we can see the same as with Hep defense, aka horrible aim.
19:27   <Shaporia>: And then someone rolled with a negative two to fate.
19:28   <Radio_Controlled>: Maybe only roll faith if the first roll went bad, to see just how screwed you are.
19:28   <Shaporia>: Rolls: (1) Aim. (1-2) Fate.
19:28   <Shaporia>: (1) Endurance.
19:29   <Radio_Controlled>: We should paint 'permadeath from above' on the shuttle.
19:29   <Shaporia>: Retro-fit Ivan's gauss rifle for it.
19:30   <Shaporia>: *refit
19:32   <SeanMirrsen>: "You punch in the command to fire two variable-yield fusion missiles from the drone at the monster in the distance."
19:32   <SeanMirrsen>: "As you see the missiles streak towards their target, you suddenly have a thought and ask your nearest teammate: "Wait, which is bigger, a kiloton or a megaton?'"
19:33   <Radio_Controlled>: "It is an illuminating experience."
19:33   <Caellath>: "Definitely a kiloton, maaaan."
19:33   <Caellath>: You realize your teammate is Rasta O'Malley
19:34   <Caellath>: Talking of which, someone should have already joined as him.
19:34   <Radio_Controlled>: Conveniently giving you a target for your next strike.

[Nikitian]

I just understood. We could now have a true "hoverboard" made with these new "forcefield" materials. Hell, maybe a even a grav-tank!

[Comrade P.]

I just understood. We could now have a true "hoverboard" made with these new "forcefield" materials. Hell, maybe a even a grav-tank!

Also, how about adding those effects to our man-tanks (Assaultsuit, battlesuit, HRB, this sort of things)? Imagine that manoeuvrability. Sure it will be hard to master, but it'll be worthwhile.

[Parisbre56]

I'd still like someone to develop zero friction skates for the battlesuit.

[Radio Controlled]

Tanks, oh my!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

19:29:17 <Radio_Controlled> So, while thinking about vehicles, I made a short part list.
19:30:00 "darkmyst:renegade" (!renegade@520.0.488.320.in-addr.arpa) joined.
19:30:18 <Radio_Controlled> body, propulsion, sensors, armor, energy/gas, communications, command/control, weapons, countermeasures.
19:30:23 <Radio_Controlled> What am I forgetting?
19:30:34 <Shaporia> Hmm..
19:30:36 <Radio_Controlled> Oh, and 'role'.
19:30:41 <Shaporia> Programs?
19:30:51 <Radio_Controlled> Under command/control.
19:31:07 <Shaporia> Pros and cons.
19:31:19 <Illgeo> Hey
19:31:26 <Radio_Controlled> Was kinda put under role, but good idea.
19:31:41 <Illgeo> WriterDwarf is adwarf?
19:31:48 <Radio_Controlled> And I'll make software a separate category maybe.
19:31:53 <Shaporia> Yeah.
19:31:57 <WriterDwarf> Yeah, I'm working on a ruleset
19:32:09 <syv> Hmm.  Maybe change 'Weapons' to 'Mounts'?
19:32:42 <syv> Firstly because we'll likely have different weapons mounted on similar tanks, and secondly because I've considered making a tank with arms.
19:33:05 <Radio_Controlled> Weapons included placement and such as subcatgories.
19:33:12 <Shaporia> mechmechmechmechmech
19:33:14 <Radio_Controlled> But good idea, it'll be more broad.
19:33:29 <Radio_Controlled> Maybe we should make a short list on the wiki to help tinkerers?
19:33:42 <Shaporia> Yeah.
19:33:43 <syv> &Shap Arm idea came out a discussion over whether we should use mechs or tanks.
19:34:05 <Radio_Controlled> That was a nice discussion, if a bit exhausting.
19:34:44 <Shaporia> I can't help but imagine a modern tank only with really big beafy arms holding an assault rifle.
19:35:24 <Radio_Controlled> One idea was, should I make the threads in 1 big part, of divide them into smaller sets?
19:35:34 <Radio_Controlled> so that a hit doesn't take away mobility fully.
19:35:54 <syv> Treads?  I think we should have multiple.
19:35:54 <renegade> Smaller sets
19:36:06 <Radio_Controlled> Yes, typo.
19:36:21 <syv> IIRC, I suggested three per side.
19:36:55 <Radio_Controlled> https://www.google.be/search?q=mammoth+tank&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=E7IyVdLRL--P7AaF7oDoBA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1517&bih=714&dpr=0.9#imgrc=mo8WlQ1ywsZCrM%253A%3BvgJfIbfDVAsD6M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fvignette4.wikia.nocookie.net%252Fdeadliestfiction%252Fimages%252Fd%252Fde%252FMammoth_tank.jpg%252Frevision%252Flatest%253Fcb%253D20130628152902%3Bhttp
19:37:09 <Radio_Controlled> For general idea of split treads.
19:37:23 <Radio_Controlled> Though again, more difficult maintenance maybe.
19:38:20 <Radio_Controlled> And maybe treads more on inside, like a land raider.
19:38:38 <Radio_Controlled> But again, if one does get shot up, good luck with field repairs.
19:38:51 <syv> Easy; Sharkplate treads.
19:39:12 <renegade> Multiple, sharkplate treads
19:39:20 <Radio_Controlled> If those are good material for treads, then yes.
19:39:29 <syv> I was thinking treads next to each other inside the armor.  No armor between them.
19:39:34 <Radio_Controlled> Can they take the weight though?
19:40:05 <syv> They're freaking perfect.  Stronger than steel, rubbery for traction, regenerative, cheap...
19:40:16 <Radio_Controlled> Probably can, seeing how ridiculous they are.
19:40:36 <Radio_Controlled> ninja'd. Yes, they do seem handy.
19:41:05 <Radio_Controlled> And if you can use sharkmist as ammor for a gause weapon, your tank can suck up ammo through the ground, heh.
19:41:30 <syv> I think it's non-magnetic, sadly.
19:41:46 <Radio_Controlled> Sort of railgun design with a pusher?
19:42:48 <syv> Maybe a kin.amp cannon, like what Comrade wanted to make.  It's more practical now that they don't need ammo.
19:44:02 <Radio_Controlled> Sounds overly complicated, I'd think a pusher sounds easier.
19:44:07 <Radio_Controlled> Also, ammo for the kinamp.
19:44:45 <Radio_Controlled> Though a pusher, when it stops, will put lots of stress of the barrel.
19:44:50 <syv> How could you make a simpler, better pusher?  Also, I thought K.As didn't need ammo in the new system.
19:45:04 <Radio_Controlled> They don't?
19:45:05 <Swordsmith04> They don't, last I checked.
19:45:13 <syv> Wiki doesn't mention ammo, at least.
19:45:21 <Radio_Controlled> Cool.
19:45:28 <Radio_Controlled> That changes things.
19:46:06 <Radio_Controlled> I meant that a pusher like that might damage your projectile or give an unstable flight path, but sharkmist can probably overcome these.
19:46:34 <syv> Although, exactly how effective a sharkmist round is against anything considered armor is... debatable.
19:46:55 <Radio_Controlled> Anti infantry, maybe.
19:47:17 <Radio_Controlled> But in a tank, you can have a big generator, so probably better to use that as infinite ammo weapon.
19:47:45 <Shaporia> Bigger generator == Bigger fun.
19:47:47 <Radio_Controlled> Lasers, I mean.
19:48:00 <Shaporia> Constant cutting laser?
19:48:06 <Radio_Controlled> Not the generator. Shooting generators, while unconventional, isn't the best idea.
19:48:15 <syv> Yeah.  Since it has infinite ammo, we could try making it an automatic weapon.  GAU-8 is a terrifying thing, we could do something like that.
19:48:35 <Radio_Controlled> @shap: probably constant big FEL thing.
19:48:54 <Radio_Controlled> The one with the weird name.
19:49:03 <Radio_Controlled> Oh wait, they both have that :p
19:49:27 <syv> Raduga?  Or Grazer?
19:49:39 <Radio_Controlled> Raduga, that's it.
19:50:01 <Radio_Controlled> ((I knew the name, just pulling Sean's leg))
19:50:13 <renegade> Sabot rounds? Or coat them in some high density, highly magnetic material
19:50:30 <syv> Raduga's no good against decent armor though.  Ballistics might be bad against BSPlate. But lasers are worse.
19:50:30 <Radio_Controlled> I'm wondering also if a laser could be used to defeat missiles and other kinetic weapons.
19:50:57 <Radio_Controlled> I was thinking, a laser on top of the main turret as support weapon.
19:51:26 <syv> &Radio Ahh.  Yes, that's smart.
19:51:32 <Radio_Controlled> Cut down infantry, wide angle when needed, maybe shoot down kinetics or broaden their impact area.
19:52:16 <syv> &Renegade complex ammo drives up the cost, and in the case of sharkmist removes the 'infinite regenerating ammo' bonus.
19:52:19 <Radio_Controlled> Main gun probably a sort of LESHO on the base model.
19:52:42 <syv> Why LESHO?  I don't see the allure.
19:52:46 <Radio_Controlled> FOr range and indirect fire capability.
19:52:59 <syv> We have spaceships for that.
19:53:09 <Radio_Controlled> And accuracy.
19:53:24 <Radio_Controlled> If you have those.
19:53:59 <SeanMirrsen>
ACTION is back (gone 00:25:17)

19:54:00 <syv> Mmh.  I think larger ammo supplies win over accuracy, for tanks.
19:54:20 <Radio_Controlled> Anyways, next to that one where that thing is replaced with something with shorter range and faster rate of fire.
19:54:26 <syv> Spaceships are pretty accurate; The sword melted a particular building with great accuracy.
19:55:08 <Radio_Controlled> Problem is that a lot of weapons in ER have medium as max, and medium is really short.
19:55:35 <Radio_Controlled> a kilometer in ER is 'long' as far as I know.
19:55:39 <syv> PSL is extreme max, with only -1 to hit.  And extreme is farther than we need anyway.
19:56:01 <Radio_Controlled> Also, syv, did you see the proposal about the gunships? Those tie into what you said.
19:56:02 <syv> Or maybe it was -3, actually.  Hmm
19:56:18 <Radio_Controlled> How is a PSL extreme? It's crystals.
19:56:18 <Shaporia> Why extreme long range is so hard:
19:56:29 <Shaporia> You start to have to take into account the curvature of the earth.
19:56:36 <Shaporia> Or, planet.
19:56:43 <Radio_Controlled> Computers to the rescue!
19:56:48 <syv> &Radio *Exploding* crystals
19:56:55 <Radio_Controlled> Yeah yeah.
19:56:56 <Shaporia> Wooo!
19:56:59 <syv> And yes, I saw the gunship proposal.
19:57:08 <Radio_Controlled> Not sure if exploding helps their range syv.
19:57:25 <Comrade_P> Gunship is most definitely a good thing to have.
19:57:36 <Radio_Controlled> Unless they explode in shorts bursts back to front.
19:57:46 <Shaporia> Also, would it be rude to just make the hover board myself before waiting for the prototype?
19:57:56 <syv> Oh, thought you were mocking my use of words.  I dunno why they're extreme range, that's just the range PW gave them.
19:58:00 <Radio_Controlled> With your own tokens?
19:58:16 <syv> I always assumed they were exceptionally high velocity.
19:58:19 <Shaporia> YEah.
19:58:20 "darkmyst:abbradar`" (!user@43-882-824-315.broadband.corbina.ru) joined.
19:58:25 <Radio_Controlled> Hey abb
19:58:34 <abbradar`> Radio_Controlled: hi!
19:58:35 <Shaporia> Heya abb.
19:58:39 <abbradar`> Hi all
19:58:48 <syv> Go ahead.  It's not like you'd get to keep a prototype.
19:58:49 <Radio_Controlled> Could you disable the thing the bot does when you type '@'?
19:59:09 <Radio_Controlled> If that's possible, it's a little annoying.
19:59:16 <Shaporia> Alright.
19:59:18 <Radio_Controlled> The autologs work great though!
19:59:36 <abbradar`> Radio_Controlled: someone already asked. I'll patch this out of her when I have time (maybe now, if my body won't disable itself from exhaustion)
19:59:46 <Radio_Controlled> Thanks.
19:59:51 <abbradar`> np
19:59:57 "darkmyst:Piecewise" (!Piecewise@hq-42-54-91-263.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) joined.
20:00:00 <Radio_Controlled> And no hurries, didn't know they'd asked already.
20:00:11 <Shaporia> Heta Piecewise
20:00:11 <abbradar`> Also, you have a great discussion here! ^_^ I'm too exhausted to take part, though
20:00:14 <Shaporia> *Heya
20:00:15 <syv> I just use &.  It's close enough, and I don't think anyone was confused by it...
20:00:35 <Radio_Controlled> Anyways, this tank would probably need a grenade launcher.
20:00:45 <abbradar`> I have auto-completion by Emacs, and it half-forces me to just write somebody:
20:01:02 <Radio_Controlled> Smoke nades, flashbangs, and frags might be useful.
20:01:17 <Radio_Controlled> Frags for discouraging flanking infantry.
20:01:39 <syv> &PW I figured out what armor packages I want for the production model Milnoplate.  Four of them.
20:01:43 <Radio_Controlled> Flashbang+smoke for concealment and quick getaway.
20:01:54 <syv> Full:23
20:01:54 <syv> Helmet:1
20:01:54 <syv> Torso:6
20:01:55 <syv> Flight(Torso,neck,shoulders,head):17
20:02:10 <Radio_Controlled> And maybe... nades with the corrosive gas.
20:02:21 <syv> Numbers are original cost, in tokens.  Not sure how much discount you're willing to give.
20:02:39 <Comrade_P> Hey piecewise, inb4 I found a pic: http://cs543106.vk.me/v543106497/6f48/56nnxXbMzn8.jpg
20:02:56 <Nikitian> Okay, I'm back and re-reading through the logs; for the moment, what's the question discussed?
20:03:01 <syv> &Radio I'm not sure about nades.  Maybe, just for infantry...
20:03:05 <Radio_Controlled> Tanks nik.
20:03:12 <Radio_Controlled> Tanks as far the eye can see.
20:03:23 <Nikitian> Cool! What chassis?
20:03:29 <Radio_Controlled> syv, most modern tanks and AFV's have a nade launcher.
20:03:33 <syv> I kind of like  how we've got 'infinite' options for the other weapon systems.
20:03:42 <syv> I know.
20:03:45 <Radio_Controlled> Mostly for support, not offense.
20:04:19 <Radio_Controlled> Nik, we're discussing new designs right now.
20:04:50 <Radio_Controlled> Syv, you have a better way of putting up a smokescreen quickly?
20:04:50 <Nikitian> Okay
20:05:07 <Nikitian> I can suggest one, if it works
20:05:25 <Nikitian> We've got those shade creatures from M6
20:05:47 <Piecewise> Into the avatar folder it goes
20:05:48 <syv> Sharkmist clouds?  No, I got nothing...
20:05:49 <Piecewise> Hello all
20:06:04 <Nikitian> Hi, Pw!
20:06:06 <Swordsmith04> hi pw.
20:06:09 <abbradar> hi
20:06:10 <Radio_Controlled> Cause a good smokescreen can pay off good dividents.
20:06:10 <SeanMirrsen> Welcome back PW.
20:06:39 <syv> Maybe the living sand, if PW would just let us control it without exo.
20:06:56 <Radio_Controlled> How big a screen could that even make?
20:07:23 <Radio_Controlled> Not like a couple smoke nades are expensive ammo-wise.
20:07:48 <Radio_Controlled> Nik, I dunno if those things would prove very practical.
20:08:06 <syv> Probably pretty big, you just need a lot of sand.  And if we can make 'infinite' ammo options for everything, we never need to resupply.
20:08:47 <Radio_Controlled> Your driver/braincase probably does.
20:08:59 <Comrade_P> Also, piecewise, what about that exploration game you suggested in ER OOC?
20:09:10 <Radio_Controlled> Unless it's fully AI (too unpredcitable) or full QEC (expensive).
20:09:14 <syv> Make it a sod brain.  Hell, make it two.
20:09:17 <Nikitian> Well, I mostly meant that we *might* find something useful and hi-tech for that specific purpose when researching those creatures, like a weaker version of that blacksand covering of the black-ops ship; dunno
20:09:37 <Radio_Controlled> Was thinking wetware controller myself. Still needs resupply then.
20:10:07 "darkmyst:Caellath" (!chatzilla@179.118.kzq.nlg) joined.
20:10:09 <Radio_Controlled> Besides, infinite ammo isn't needed as long as you can carry enough for the average mission.
20:10:43 <Radio_Controlled> Though a 'long operational time' variant that only has infinite ammo weapons is a useful idea.
20:10:48 <syv> Nutrient packs are small and efficient.  I remember individual packs being said to have months of nutrients, back on the anomalous planetoid.  I could be wrong though.
20:11:01 <Radio_Controlled> I'll admit I don't know that myself.
20:11:04 <Shaporia> Heya Cael.
20:11:08 <Piecewise> Comrade I'm working on it right now actually
20:11:24 <Radio_Controlled> Still, we'd be limited to lasers and sharkbullets then.
20:11:25 <Comrade_P> So it is going to happen for real?
20:11:51 <SeanMirrsen> And maybe a PEW for a heavy weapon.
20:12:19 <Radio_Controlled> That reload is kind crippling.
20:12:23 "darkmyst:syv" (!syvarris@ulhbec-201-717-727-278.mycingular.net) joined.
20:12:32 <Radio_Controlled> Need 4 for 1 shot every 15 sec.
20:12:39 <syv> What'd I miss?
20:12:51 <Comrade_P> Don't get me wrong, I super hyped for ER as well, its just that I have a thing for games like the one that was suggested.
20:12:51 <Radio_Controlled> 22:11   *** syv quit (Remote host closed the connection) 22:11   <SeanMirrsen>: And maybe a PEW for a heavy weapon. 22:12   <Radio_Controlled>: That reload is kind crippling. 22:12   *** syv joined #einsteinianroulette
20:13:01 <SeanMirrsen> It'll overload a tank-sized heatsink at that rate of fire.
20:13:16 <Radio_Controlled> So yeah, not really ideal.
20:13:33 <Radio_Controlled> A modern MBT has what, 1 shot every 3-5 sec?
20:13:51 <syv> It might work decently enough for a main cannon.  We were gonna have turrets and lasers, right?
20:13:56 <Radio_Controlled> You wanna load 20 on them?
20:14:00 <SeanMirrsen> A modern MBT has nothing on a constantly firing cutting laser.
20:14:30 <Radio_Controlled> For a main, cannon, I'd pick something that can reliably one-shot a battlesuit at the least.
20:14:43 <syv> As long as it only needs to kill one enemy armor unit per minute, it's fine.  And we probably won't be so outnumbered that's an issue.
20:14:48 <syv> Can't the PEW do that?
20:15:03 <SeanMirrsen> The PEW and the blaster cannon are the only two energy weapons I know that can do that.
20:15:05 <Piecewise> Seems like it comrade
20:15:13 <Nikitian> On PEW reload: Remember, we can simply put a better generator. It's that the regular HEP had the cheapest one that would do the job, being the infantry weapon and all
20:15:23 <syv> Plasma projector can too.
20:15:34 <SeanMirrsen> Plasma Projector is still ammo-based.
20:15:38 <Comrade_P> That's great!
20:15:54 <syv> But it's an energy weapon.
20:16:00 <Radio_Controlled> Remember, I don't think we should restrict ourselves to purely lasers.
20:16:11 <SeanMirrsen> It uses a physical medium to deliver the energy.
20:16:23 <Radio_Controlled> And syv, 1 shot a minute sounds horrible to me.
20:16:26 <SeanMirrsen> It uses lots of energy yes, but it needs something to turn into plasma.
20:16:50 <Radio_Controlled> It uses automanips for that I think.
20:16:52 <SeanMirrsen> RC, there are really not many options to one-shot a Battlesuit that have infinite ammo.
20:16:56 <syv> But plasma, in ER, falls under the category of energy weapon.
20:17:20 <Radio_Controlled> Sean: that what I'm saying, I don't think it always needs the infinite ammo.
20:17:45 <syv> &Radio Pretty much, what Sean said.  Unless you want to use a Sharkmist Gau-8 or PEW, we're not gonna get an infinite ammo anti-armor weapon.
20:18:24 <Radio_Controlled> And i think the sharkmist wouldn't have enough power, and the PEW fires too slowly.
20:18:37 <Radio_Controlled> So that's the conundrum here.
20:18:38 <SeanMirrsen> PEW is physically limited to a long reload by its operating principle (and we can't just make a better generator for it yet). The Blaster Cannon we'd need humongous capacitors for, and a very powerful generator. The Plasma Projector will also need that, plus it still uses up some sort of ammo.
20:18:58 <Shaporia> ohgodsomuchtechtalk
20:19:00 <SeanMirrsen> (and its shot can be evaded)
20:19:12 <Radio_Controlled> Shap, you are free to abandon ship.
20:19:29 <Radio_Controlled> Only real treadheads here.
20:19:42 <Radio_Controlled> (stole that word from pyro, by the way)
20:20:29 <Radio_Controlled> Hey piecewise, how big is a medium-long range guass/rail cannon that can always one-shot a battlesuit?
20:20:37 <SeanMirrsen> Only solution I see is to wait until Anton picks the HEP apart and makes a better energy weapon out of it.
20:20:39 <syv> I'm wondering if the Sharkmist really would be too weak though.  Gauss cannon destroys one BSplate per shot, and doesn't have a propulsion syste  anywhere near as efficient as a kin.amp.
20:20:41 <Radio_Controlled> Is it LESHO sized, or could we go smaller.
20:20:42 <Nikitian> Sean: Not to sound critical, but are you 100% certain it cannot shoot more often with a better generator? Because I recall that possibility when I originally experimented with it years ago
20:21:11 <Radio_Controlled> Hah, he really did abandon ship.
20:21:28 <SeanMirrsen> Nik: Yes, I asked. No powering the HEP with our fancy new powersystems.
20:21:51 <Nikitian> Well, our new fancy powersystems might be at fault, though
20:22:08 <Nikitian> I mean, the generator hooked up to it is a bit different from usual
20:22:30 <SeanMirrsen> I think it has more to do with the battery having a limited charge rate.
20:22:50 <SeanMirrsen> And it's not a battery as we know it, it stores energy in a special way.
20:23:05 <SeanMirrsen> Unique to the HEP's purpose.
20:23:40 <Radio_Controlled> Looked it up: abrams has fire rate of about 6/minute for main gun.
20:23:40 <Nikitian> I clearly remember the description of how it fires: we keep pumping energy into it, and when it's enough, it fires; it just takes an awful lot of energy to fire - a huge backpack of capacitors for a single shot (I tried making one back then)
20:24:00 <SeanMirrsen> That was back then.
20:24:10 <Nikitian> Well, yeah, it might have changed
20:24:12 <Radio_Controlled> Nik, sometime pw changes his mind about things.
20:24:14 <SeanMirrsen> ER canon is sort of fluctuating at inconvenient times.
20:24:16 <Nikitian>
ACTION eyes Piecewise

20:24:23 <Radio_Controlled> ninjas
20:24:59 <SeanMirrsen> Anton will be making research in that direction anyway, it's just too interesting a project.
20:25:23 <Nikitian> Well, I'll try to ask him nonetheless because why not
20:25:40 <Radio_Controlled> So, anyways: original design had a LESHO/rapid fire gauss cannon as main gun, a raduga on top in a highly mobile turret, and a nade launcher. Maybe a coaxial gun/small turret on front
20:26:32 <Radio_Controlled> Then, maybe optional gun turrets on the side of the main body/turret, mostly for in urban areas.
20:26:53 <Nikitian> Uh, what is the original design's shape/chassis? Because that might allow for additional main guns, for example
20:26:56 <Radio_Controlled> In total, that a max of 6 barrels.
20:27:07 <SeanMirrsen> No need for highly mobile Raduga turret. It can be just a reflector for a Raduga that fires upwards, or it can use a Raduga embedded into the main body, with apertures around it to provide firing ports in all directions.
20:27:12 <Radio_Controlled> NIk: like a regular tank, or maybe egg shaped.
20:27:45 <SeanMirrsen> I.e. like the FEL cruiser.
20:27:51 <syv> Ooh, I like Sean's point.  Embed two radugas in the body, and replace the side turrets with reflectors,
20:28:05 <Radio_Controlled> Well yeah sean, the turret would have the output, but body weapon in the turret.
20:28:28 <Nikitian> Okaaay; does it move with treads?
20:28:35 <Radio_Controlled> Yes.
20:28:36 <syv> Yes.
20:28:41 <Nikitian> ... just why?
20:28:44 <Radio_Controlled> Does raduga have enough output to fire through all 3?
20:28:56 <Radio_Controlled> Because legs are silly.
20:28:58 <SeanMirrsen> No, it fires out of any one.
20:29:07 <SeanMirrsen> It doesn't split the beam.
20:29:12 <syv> That's why I suggested two.
20:29:15 <Radio_Controlled> Then you don't really need the extra turrets.
20:29:30 <Radio_Controlled> I'm talking about engaging multiple foes at once.
20:29:36 <Radio_Controlled> Even if only to suppress.
20:29:38 <SeanMirrsen> You need them if you want to cover all angles.
20:30:02 <Radio_Controlled> Not if your main turret is 'small' enough.
20:30:07 <SeanMirrsen> Also if you want two Radugas to fire on the same side of the tank.
20:30:32 <Radio_Controlled> Still, lasers for side turrets isn't a bad idea.
20:30:39 <Nikitian> (I'll return to treads later) Okay, now what with the weapon loadout? Why so diversified when I remember you wishing for a homogenous supply system (or something that would need no supplies at all)?
20:30:56 <Radio_Controlled> Nik, we are brainstorming here.
20:31:07 <Nikitian> Ah, sure
20:31:11 <Radio_Controlled> No a priori wishes, we see what comes up.
20:31:54 <SeanMirrsen> Give it a kinetic-amped bumper for ramming. ;P
20:31:59 <syv> Oh, and I still disagree with LESHO/gauss main gun.  Shards outperform gauss weapons, both in armor penetration and ammo.
20:32:17 <SeanMirrsen> Even with nuclear-tipped rounds for Lesho?
20:32:18 <Radio_Controlled> Pretty sure a lesho packs more power.
20:32:26 <Nikitian> Funny thing, I'm going to agree with syv here
20:32:41 <syv> I specified gauss.  Lesho is a railgun.
20:32:59 <Radio_Controlled> And again, I don't know what the range is.
20:33:11 <Radio_Controlled> Honestly, I count those in the same category.
20:33:14 <syv> My issue with LESHO is that it has horrible ammo efficiency and fire rate.
20:33:36 <Radio_Controlled> But you kill everything you see.
20:33:44 <Comrade_P> And don't see
20:33:58 <syv> You do that with a PSL anyway, and have more ammo.
20:34:01 <Radio_Controlled> Also, solid non-guided ammo can help a bit with space.
20:34:08 <SeanMirrsen> You know, I remember another interesting energy weapon.
20:34:21 "darkmyst:Caellath" (!chatzilla@179.118.kzq.nlg) joined.
20:34:27 <Radio_Controlled> syv, we know it can kill a battlesuit (maybe) but that's it.
20:34:32 <SeanMirrsen> Anybody have any info on Lucas's chest blaster?
20:34:36 <Nikitian> Why not put LESHOs on a SPG variant of the tank?
20:34:38 <syv> You're never fitting thirty LESHO rounds in a propane tank.
20:34:47 <Radio_Controlled> What does it do to, say, an avatar?
20:35:03 <syv> Call in an airstrike.
20:35:12 <Radio_Controlled> Cause that's (partly) what a modern MBT does, defeat heavy armor.
20:35:13 <Nikitian> We could always upscale a PSL if we feel we need more firepower
20:35:16 <AoshimaMichio> Lukas's chest particle cannon is old technology
20:35:19 <syv> It's a tank.  It's supposed to kill tanks.  Not avatars.
20:35:28 <Radio_Controlled> And again, that's IF you have airpower available.
20:35:35 <SeanMirrsen> I am still curious as to what a PEW 'final shot' does to an Avatar.
20:35:40 <Radio_Controlled> Why not avatars?
20:35:50 <syv> Are we going to be foolish enough to not have airpower?
20:36:04 <Radio_Controlled> Will we always have the luxury of it?
20:36:24 <Radio_Controlled> Does the Us army always have airpower available everywhere?
20:36:28 <SeanMirrsen> The particle cannon was old technology, but it was neat technology. Anton wouldn't mind getting his hands on it.
20:37:15 "darkmyst:lambdabot" (!lambdabot@43-882-824-315.broadband.corbina.ru) joined.
20:37:18 <SeanMirrsen> Airpower alone does not capture cities.
20:37:21 <abbradar> @list
20:37:22 <SeanMirrsen> Nor hold them.
20:37:23 <abbradar> #list
20:37:24 <abbradar> enjoy
20:37:36 <Radio_Controlled> We haven't really seen UWM close airstrikes.
20:37:41 <syv> The UWM doesn't have tanks.  They have battlesuits for urban engagements, because you can't airstrike through a window.
20:37:51 <Radio_Controlled> Yes you can.
20:38:12 <SeanMirrsen>
ACTION makes a note: "Create window-portable airstrikes".

20:38:18 <Radio_Controlled> We have weapons right now that can kill everything on a certain floor of a building, and not destroy the building.
20:38:26 <syv> Not easily, effectively, and accurately, without severe collateral damage.
20:38:36 <Radio_Controlled> Yes, we do it now.
20:38:39 <syv> A particular person?
20:38:40 <SeanMirrsen> We call those weapons "teammates".
20:38:43 <Caellath> With future tech, I think they can do that with nearly 100% efficiency.
20:38:48 <Caellath> FUTURE
20:39:04 <syv> Then why are we landing at all?
20:39:13 <Nikitian> Well, let's try again; what do we need our tanks for? Urban combat against battlesuits &infantry, footslogging advance a-la fake-Hexbarax, or what?
20:39:24 <Radio_Controlled> Because you don't own a place until you have boots on the ground.
20:39:53 <Radio_Controlled> Also, realistically speaking, it won't always be just shooting 1 base and calling it a day.
20:40:05 <syv> Why?  You can kill any rebels from space, even if they're inside buildings in a crowd of civilians, apparently.
20:40:10 <Radio_Controlled> Imagine taking over planet like earth.
20:40:21 <Comrade_P> Exterminatus
20:40:32 <Comrade_P> The only right solution to Earth
20:40:38 <Nikitian> Actually, I think we have again reached the "need more data" point
20:40:58 <Radio_Controlled> It'd be a slog of months, years maybe, to root out the final opposition.
20:41:22 <Nikitian> So - guerilla warfare?
20:41:23 <Radio_Controlled> Unless you go full holocaust.
20:41:35 <Nikitian> (which we totally can)
20:41:36 <syv> And I'd juat airstrike any tanks they have left.  Any tanks I use are only there to resist infantry fire.
20:41:38 <Comrade_P> The latter.
20:41:56 <Radio_Controlled> Not only that, also regular troops hiding in cities.
20:41:57 "darkmyst:SeanMirrsen" (!SeanMirrse@81.177.wmq.pt) joined.
20:42:04 <Comrade_P> What are our current exterminatus options by the way?
20:42:19 <Comrade_P> Orbital bombardment?
20:42:23 <Radio_Controlled> Syv, and what if they have ways to deny you air superiority?
20:42:26 <syv> Not many.  We're kinda low on supplies.
20:42:36 <syv> Then I'm leaving the planet.  I will lose.
20:42:48 <Radio_Controlled> Then you'll lose the war.
20:43:04 <syv> ...I suddenly realize that I should be saying 'space' rather than 'air'.
20:43:09 <Radio_Controlled> That's... not an option.
20:43:37 <Radio_Controlled> Again, I'm not sure how accurate space/outside of atmosphere artillery can be at all times.
20:43:38 <syv> Then we're not gonna lose space superiority, because PW has said we havr a chance at winning the war.
20:43:41 "darkmyst:abbradar`" (!user@43-882-824-315.broadband.corbina.ru) joined.
20:44:13 <syv> PW has said we can make them desl effectively with weather, and we already know they're good enough to target a building.
20:44:14 <Radio_Controlled> Or, maybe we do lose it, and have to footslog through.
20:44:19 <Nikitian> So why not make artillery tank variants with LESHOs in some amount and use them to support our main battle tanks from behind?
20:44:44 <syv> Because we have spaceships, Nik.
20:45:19 <Nikitian> The way Long-range battlesuits work, for example
20:45:22 <Radio_Controlled> And syv is convinced those are perfect in both aiming and unable to be dealth with.
20:45:32 <Comrade_P> That's self-propelled artillery. I think we have that.

[Radio Controlled]

@ syv: I might have a way to create a source of infinite smoke, like we talked about yesterday. Basically try to have the sharkthreads take up some material, bring it to a small tube, and try to 'spray' it a bit (for bigger surface area, oxidizes much batter), then use a heavy spark gap to try and burn it to create smoke. Sounds very convoluted and slow, but there you have it. I'd still prefer good ol' fashioned smoke nades personally.

Oh, and if more rigid forms of sharkmist can be made, we can build quite a few of the internal compartments of a vehicle out of it as well. Won't be 100 mist of course, but still cable of some self-repair.

[Kriellya]

Just a request for my curiosity, but could someone on the Heph team make a list of all artifacts/oddities Heph currently has to work on?

I feel like there are several floating around that have been 'forgotten' about, and I haven't seen a complete list of what artifacts are on Heph, and similarly what has and has not been researched. Or at least, this list is not on the wiki. This also seems like it would be a useful thing for our newly appointed Scientific Admin to have, so he knows what to start work on.


I also ask because I needed to add the salvage and relevant data from Skylar's god computer to the list and couldn't find one.

[Parisbre56]

You could add a section about that in the artifacts page, or whatever it's called.

Speaking about things that should go there, the telerifle should be there.

[Nikitian]

Yeah, well, I've been thinking of compiling something like that. The Hephaestus anomalies, year-long mission anomalies, many other mission artifacts, Nyartifacts, Player-made artifacts, etc.

Speaking of which, I just understood that maybe while we're at Skylar's God-Computer, we might also analyse Simus's God-Antenna (even if only in the video-feed and the creator's memories, without actual hardware). Gilgamesh's unphasing paintjob might also deserve research, as Stacy's painting should. And so on; we actually have a nice long tradition of fucking reality up by ourselves without any alien or anomalous help.
We should really be proud of ourselves.

[Parisbre56]

http://einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/Artifact_Data
There's that.

And I suppose that being near space magic and meta-cancer causing rods while reality starts breaking apart in a world where 1/6 times you act you bend reality tends to affect people. I
I'm surprised we don't have more things like that.

Speaking of which, I should add those things in the artifacts page as well.

[Nikitian]

Yeah, and it is useful in the way it is, but maybe there should be a page more of a "TO DO" list - not all the artifacts/research prospects are mentioned on that page, and not all the artifacts/research prospects that are mentioned on that page bear new research possibilities (for example, I feel that perhaps Abyss sand or Hexplate are exhausted lines of research, at least for the moment). Conversely, there should also be created a page for "scientific developments" or somesuch - to mention all the new materials and their already working applications (like hexsand armor, invisible cover, heatsinks and, of course, "sandbag" itself for the Abyss sand practical applications already in use).
Just, when I finally have all the time, when I am finally allowed to do science (and things are settled on how science is done these days), when my character is freed from that long conversation... I'll try and compile the concise list of things to research into. And put it on the wiki.

[Kriellya]

Yeah, and it is useful in the way it is, but maybe there should be a page more of a "TO DO" list - not all the artifacts/research prospects are mentioned on that page, and not all the artifacts/research prospects that are mentioned on that page bear new research possibilities (for example, I feel that perhaps Abyss sand or Hexplate are exhausted lines of research, at least for the moment). Conversely, there should also be created a page for "scientific developments" or somesuch - to mention all the new materials and their already working applications (like hexsand armor, invisible cover, heatsinks and, of course, "sandbag" itself for the Abyss sand practical applications already in use).
Just, when I finally have all the time, when I am finally allowed to do science (and things are settled on how science is done these days), when my character is freed from that long conversation... I'll try and compile the concise list of things to research into. And put it on the wiki.

Well, I'll try and help out a bit with that. Later this week, I'll copy the artifacts/materials I think Heph has from the list and drop them into some categories for some initial organization, then link that into the Heph page for you. I'll probably start with "Unexamined", "In-Progress", and "Completed" as the initial categories.
I probably won't be able to sort them accurately (that's why I posted here in the first place, I haven't been tracking exactly what Heph has been doing), but hopefully I can setup a framework that will let you update the information more easily.

Similarly, I can start a Scientific Developments page, maybe throw in a framework for hexplate, but I haven't the faintest idea what you guys have been making.

[Kriellya]

Started a Heph Science page. It's kind of bare-bones right now, mostly cause I have no idea what you guys have been doing.
you can find it here :: http://einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/Hephaestus_Research

My generic plan is to create a New Research page to copy to a new page whenever you start a project with a new artifact/material/whatever. You'll fill in things like where it's from and what was observed on mission. Then you'll add experiments and results, and finally 'products' based on the technology, as you complete them via the Heph thread.

Hopefully this will result in more organized research, fewer things getting forgotten about, and fewer things getting done twice. Oh, and the ability for people on the Sword to actually have any idea what's going on in those wall-o-text reports that Saint keeps sending us.