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Total Members Voted: 17

[smjjames]

They have the same mythological place in both countries - a place where great battles for the sake of the state occurred.

You should know that mythology is what determines the actions of the world's nations, not rationality.

Heh, yeah, Manifest Destiny was a pretty major mythology driving the actions of the US for the 18th and 19th centuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny

[Knit tie]

Are we discussing Kosovo or Ukraine here?

[GreatJustice]

Well really, the analogy doesn't work because Crimea doesn't really have any "native people" in the sense Kosovo does. The only real connection it historically has to Ukraine is the fact that it happens to be connected to Ukraine and that Khrushchev decided it made geographical sense to consider it a part of the SSR that it was actually connected to (despite not really having as much in the way of cultural or political connections) since they had very little political independence so it didn't matter much at the time. The Tatars, meanwhile, basically came in during the Mongol invasions in the 14th century, with the area before that being populated by a massive range of peoples from Turks to Italians to Greeks to Slavs, basically all of whom were no longer around after the Crimean Khanate was established a few centuries later.

[Owlbread]

It is incorrect to say that the Crimea does not have native people. The Crimean Tatars are not "Tatars" per se - they are a mixed ethnic group that speak Tatar but are descended from practically every ethmic group that settled in the Crimea - including Goths, Scythians, Greeks and Cumans. Unlike the Russians the Mongol hordes didn't expel the population - they assimilated them. If anyone is indigenous to Crimea it's them.

[Descan]

So basically the Crimean Tatars are like Americans?

A bunch of different ethnic groups migrate to and settle the area, and over time meld and merge into a single culture, possibly with one or two over-arching back-bone cultures (Mongol for Tatars, British/Irish for Americans)

Throw in some genocide of native peoples and it's basically the same thing.

[Helgoland]

Indigenous-ness is ill-defined anyway, isn't it?

[Sergarr]

I'm pretty sure Mongol hordes assimilated population by regularly raiding them, taking parts of their population into slavery and stealing everything valuable they could get.

[Helgoland]

So just like the Russians, basically.

* Helgoland ducks.

[Guardian G.I.]

So just like the Russians, basically.

* Helgoland ducks.

So, Russia's main source of income was actually raiding countries, pillaging towns and cities and selling slaves to the Ottoman Empire?

[LordSlowpoke]

So just like the Russians, basically.

* Helgoland ducks.

So, Russia's main source of income was actually raiding, pillaging and selling slaves to the Ottoman Empire?

you heard the man guardian

call the printing house we got to change the textbooks

[Owlbread]

So basically the Crimean Tatars are like Americans?

A bunch of different ethnic groups migrate to and settle the area, and over time meld and merge into a single culture, possibly with one or two over-arching back-bone cultures (Mongol for Tatars, British/Irish for Americans)

Throw in some genocide of native peoples and it's basically the same thing.

Crimean Tatars are basically like people from Oklahoma.

[Sergarr]

The new European order in Ukraine.
Less social protections!
Less education!
Slava Ukraine!
No, seriously, stop.
Ukraine, what the fuck
What the fuck is this shit
Is this what you really wanted, Ukrainians?
Does that seem like a European quality of life here?
This is death of all your currently socially protected classes of population right here
It would be incredibly ironic if UR were to suffer from the cancellation of oh-so-many social protections at once.
Bet you didn't expect that to happen, do you?
But now, this is your future.
This is the future you chose willingly.
We were trying to warn you, but you didn't listen.
And now you'll pay the price for being deaf.
Who needs 11 years of education, anyways?
9 years would be more than enough for Brave New Ukraine.

[Descan]

Are any of those in English :v

[Sergarr]

These are photographs of internal documents of Ukraine, why would they be in English ;v

[mainiac]

We get it, you hate Ukrainians.