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Petro Poroshenko

5 (29.4%)

Yulia Tymoshenko

2 (11.8%)

Oleg Lyashko

2 (11.8%)

Anatoly Hrytsenko

2 (11.8%)

Serhiy Tihipko

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Mykhailo Dobkin

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Other

6 (35.3%)

Total Members Voted: 17

[Sheb]

Knit Tie, that's less propaganda, and most people just having a terrible knowledge of history in general.

Regarding the Tatar, I couldn't find link for those pogroms, and I found that about 9000 joined a German battailon, hardly a collaboration by the whole people.

[Sergarr]

I would say Crimea is a historically important place since it was pretty much the last anclave of tatars from which they carried out their raid onto Russian territory, and with taking it we've finally stopped that.

I'd say the core European Russia has four historically important cities that each have a part of our history laid down in them: St. Petersburg, Moscow, Sevastopol, and Nizhny Novgorod. Each of these cities (with the exception of Nizhny Novgorod) has seen many historically important battles and symbolize our struggle against the outer enemy. The Nizhny Novgorod, as the homeplace of Minin and Pozharsky rebellion against the Poland conquerers, symbolizes our struggle against the enemy inside - the most dangerous kind.

Of course these are not the only historically important cities in Russia. The cities close to our border are practically swimming in history.

[Knit tie]

Knit Tie, that's less propaganda, and most people just having a terrible knowledge of history in general.

Agreed, that was what I was talking about in the first place, with "de-propagandisation" being the Russian term for how the official line of the former Soviet government took a U-turn in the 90s and started pouring oceans of mud on the Soviet state.

Regarding the Tatar, I couldn't find link for those pogroms, and I found that about 9000 joined a German battailon, hardly a collaboration by the whole people.

Most links about this sort of stuff are in russian, unfortunately, like this wikipedia article, for example, because that's not the sort of stuff that's interesting to the western popular historians. And you are right, the Soviet response was excessive and undeserved by the Tatars.

When talking about the pre-WW2 USSR, to illustrate what I am talking about, most British pundits focus on the famine of 1032-33...

The Kievan Rus was ruled by Soviet communists, then? I didn't know that.

Goddammit, I meant 1932-32!

[smjjames]

I would say Crimea is a historically important place since it was pretty much the last anclave of tatars from which they carried out their raid onto Russian territory, and with taking it we've finally stopped that.

I'd say the core European Russia has four historically important cities that each have a part of our history laid down in them: St. Petersburg, Moscow, Sevastopol, and Nizhny Novgorod. Each of these cities (with the exception of Nizhny Novgorod) has seen many historically important battles and symbolize our struggle against the outer enemy. The Nizhny Novgorod, as the homeplace of Minin and Pozharsky rebellion against the Poland conquerers, symbolizes our struggle against the enemy inside - the most dangerous kind.

Of course these are not the only historically important cities in Russia. The cities close to our border are practically swimming in history.

Well yeah, I'm not saying that it isn't historically important, just not on the high historical and cultural level that Putin was claiming to have it be.

It could just be that he was using a poor analogy.

[Knit tie]

I would say Crimea is a historically important place since it was pretty much the last anclave of tatars from which they carried out their raid onto Russian territory, and with taking it we've finally stopped that.

I'd say the core European Russia has four historically important cities that each have a part of our history laid down in them: St. Petersburg, Moscow, Sevastopol, and Nizhny Novgorod. Each of these cities (with the exception of Nizhny Novgorod) has seen many historically important battles and symbolize our struggle against the outer enemy. The Nizhny Novgorod, as the homeplace of Minin and Pozharsky rebellion against the Poland conquerers, symbolizes our struggle against the enemy inside - the most dangerous kind.

Of course these are not the only historically important cities in Russia. The cities close to our border are practically swimming in history.

Well yeah, I'm not saying that it isn't historically important, just not on the high historical and cultural level that Putin was claiming to have it be.

It could just be that he was using a poor analogy.

It there's an area where Putin genuinely sucks, it would be public speaking. He has absolutely no talent for this sort of thing, and it shows.

[Sergarr]

I would say Crimea is a historically important place since it was pretty much the last anclave of tatars from which they carried out their raid onto Russian territory, and with taking it we've finally stopped that.

I'd say the core European Russia has four historically important cities that each have a part of our history laid down in them: St. Petersburg, Moscow, Sevastopol, and Nizhny Novgorod. Each of these cities (with the exception of Nizhny Novgorod) has seen many historically important battles and symbolize our struggle against the outer enemy. The Nizhny Novgorod, as the homeplace of Minin and Pozharsky rebellion against the Poland conquerers, symbolizes our struggle against the enemy inside - the most dangerous kind.

Of course these are not the only historically important cities in Russia. The cities close to our border are practically swimming in history.

Well yeah, I'm not saying that it isn't historically important, just not on the high historical and cultural level that Putin was claiming to have it be.

It could just be that he was using a poor analogy.

And I would definitely agree with you, it's a really fucking poor analogy.

Like I'm outraged at how bad it is. Equating historical reasons with religious reasons? Fuck you, putin, fuck yuo

[smjjames]

For the Russians here, what analogy do you think would have been appropriate?

[Sergarr]

Hmmmm. I don't know, actually. The European states did not had that kind of slow expansion into foreign space, with the exception of Spain, maybe.

What was the last city in Spain freed during Reconquista?

[Knit tie]

For the Russians here, what analogy do you think would have been appropriate?

An analogy with Siberia would've been much more appropriate - "we conquered it long ago and since then it's been an integral and valued part of the Russian state, inhabited by Russian people."

[Descan]

I'd say Danzig for the Germans but let's not go down that route again.

[smjjames]

Hmmmm. I don't know, actually. The European states did not had that kind of slow expansion into foreign space, with the exception of Spain, maybe.

What was the last city in Spain freed during Reconquista?

Granada I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista

[Guardian G.I.]

For the Russians here, what analogy do you think would have been appropriate?

Probably the closest analogy that can be applied here is that the Crimea is a part of Russia where much blood was shed for the defence of the country against the invaders. Kind of like Kosovo for Serbians.

Spoiler: Slightly related image: a pro-Russian mural in the Serbian part of Kosovska Mitrovica (click to show/hide)

[Svarte Troner]

Spoiler: /thread (click to show/hide)

[Sheb]

It's like Kosovo is Serb  -   Crimea is Russian?

What's that thing written over Crimea?

[smjjames]

Spoiler: /thread (click to show/hide)

It should have an eighth one, 'All your bases are belong to us' because that's what the whole thing sounded like to me.