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Author Topic: Tabletop Games Thread  (Read 197474 times)

Criptfeind

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1845 on: July 06, 2017, 12:46:50 pm »

Why strength?  Carrying capacity?
My group did point out that most wizards prioritize dexterity for their ranged touch attacks, so they tend to be dodgy like rogues instead of "tanky" like fighters (and armor does jack against magic, in particular).

Still though, if casting in full plate isn't worth one level, kinda sounds like armor is pointless.
You also get +2 proficiency, a fighting style (+2 to ranged attacks, for example), and an extra "second wind" well of 1d10 HP.  And a d10 HD, though wizards apparently get d6 now... pah.

The wizard capstone, IF you lose it by being capped at 20 or something, is... two bonus 3rd level castings per day?  wowzers

If you don't meet the strength requirements of armor, it gives you a -10 movement speed penalty. Ranged spell attacks in 5e use the spellcasters casting ability, so for wizards for a "ranged touch attack" you'd be rolling with your int bonus, not your dex. Touch attacks in general don't really exist, armor will work against ranged spells that target ac. Armor is Okay (probably better then 3.5) however just like 3.5 mage armor is a thing that exists and doesn't stack with armor.

Multiclassing as a whole simply doesn't work like what you're envisioning. It has requirements and doesn't give you absolutely everything from the secondary class. Multiclassing into fighter requires that you have a strength or dex of 13, when you multiclass into fighter you don't get heavy armor anyway, only medium and light. This puts you, max, 2 points of ac ahead of mage armor, in exchange for an entire level of spellcasting progression. Proficiency is based on level not class and everyone at the same level always has the same.

Multiclassing into fighter maybe gives you 2 ac if you have the best medium armor and a not high dex score. On average +2 hp, weapon proficiency. shield proficiency. The ability to use some sorta weapon slightly better. (Do you really think it's that useful for a wizard to be able to shoot a bow better? I think the +1 ac looks best to me...) and a non scaling second wind. Realistically that's 4-5 armor that'll over time quite probably become less valuable as you increase your dex score and a small amount of extra hp to play around with. In exchange you've slowed down your spellcasting progression and will always be a weaker spell caster then a straight wizard (this is especially notable on levels where you'd normally gain the next level of spell, but you'll always have less spell slots and a lower recovery then a normal wizard.) It certainly makes you a bit tanker, as one would expect, and I don't think it's crippling to your spellcasting, but neither do I think the tanking ability is automatically worthwhile.
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Kadzar

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1846 on: July 06, 2017, 05:25:35 pm »

Multiclassing from fighter will work out a little better, though, since you get all the starting proficiencies of a fighter, so you can pick up heavy armor, and the wizard doesn't have any armor or weapon proficiencies the fighter doesn't have (since fighters have all of them), so you only lose out on wizard's saving throws (and wisdom is a good one, so it's not without some sacrifice), and you don't get the wizard's pick of starting skills (though it's easy enough to pick up skills from your race or your background).

Otherwise, everything else Criptfiend said still applies, including the Dexterity or Strength requirement, since multiclassing requires you to have at least a 13 in the scores required for both classes.
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Cruxador

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1847 on: July 07, 2017, 01:32:55 am »

I dunno.  If a wizard regularly needs full plate armor, he might be doing something wrong.
Anyone who regularly needs armor (or a weapon, for that matter) is doing something wrong. People who live nice lives where they have everything under control rarely make for good stories, though, and they most definitely don't have adventures.
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scriver

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1848 on: July 07, 2017, 01:50:25 am »

You could just be a Dwarven Wizard anyway and gain that armour proficiency from the start.
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Kadzar

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1849 on: July 07, 2017, 06:29:04 pm »

Armor is definitely good in 5e (good luck trying to hit someone with over 20 AC), but it's not the be all end all of optimization. You definitely want it if you're fighting people in melee, but, for wizards that hang out in the back, it's more useful to have a race like High Elf to get a bonus to your Intelligence (and thus increase your spell DCs) than to get some armor as a Mountain Dwarf, who then has a bonus to Strength that you'll never use past 5th level, when cantrip damage increases and actual fighting classes get Extra Attack while you're stuck with a single attack for melee.

Not to say building to use armor as a Wizard is a bad thing, but it's not a thing that all Wizards are going to strive for, since there are better things for a Wizard to build for. But 5e is such that, even if you don't have the most optimized build, you can still contribute, so you can have a plate mail wizard if you want, and you might do pretty well, but not all the best Wizards are going to be found wearing plate mail.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1850 on: July 07, 2017, 06:37:04 pm »

I dunno.  If a wizard regularly needs full plate armor, he might be doing something wrong.
Anyone who regularly needs armor (or a weapon, for that matter) is doing something wrong. People who live nice lives where they have everything under control rarely make for good stories, though, and they most definitely don't have adventures.

If a wizard has someone waving a sword in front of his d4 hp face, he's probably dead or going to be dead.  Wizards typically have no armor, barely a weapon nor the skill to wield it any good, and usually can't use spells in melee (you know, the one good thing wizards get).  That's why he's graced with spells to prevent that.  And why he has a fighter in his party.
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Parsely

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1851 on: July 08, 2017, 12:08:41 am »

I'm currently playing a grappler Wizard in a 5e game who has something like 18 strength. I get in amongst the enemy, pop spells to worsen enemy mobility while improving my own, then grab enemies and drag them over to my allies. I can hold an enemy, move him into my allies' melee range and back out again to trigger attacks of opportunity. It doesn't really make sense in-character but the people I'm playing with are gamey so these are the kinds of rules lawyer tactics I have to use to make my fun build useful, and it is.
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SeriousConcentrate

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1852 on: July 08, 2017, 12:24:17 am »

That's hilarious. You can always flavor it as your wizard doing a slow Giant Swing to continually move the enemy through different AoO areas.
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Jimmy

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1853 on: July 08, 2017, 01:35:59 am »

Sounds like the Oprah Winfrey of 5e.

"You get an AoO! You get an AoO! Everyone gets an AoO!"
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1854 on: July 08, 2017, 04:09:59 am »

I'm not actual sure that would trigger AoOs. From what I recall forced movement does not.
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Twinwolf

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1855 on: July 08, 2017, 07:45:45 am »

I'm not actual sure that would trigger AoOs. From what I recall forced movement does not.
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Parsely

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1856 on: July 08, 2017, 10:47:31 am »

Well shoot. I'm gonna tell my GM about it but I'm sure he'll allow a modified version of what I'm doing that makes more sense in-character.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1857 on: July 08, 2017, 03:48:48 pm »

I remember back in 4e we had a sorcerer with maxed strength.

We called him the flex mage, and all his somatic spell components were just him flexing his muscles.  Like, he'd strike a pose and a lightning bolt shoots out of his outstretched hand.
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Tawa

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1858 on: July 08, 2017, 04:40:51 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Cruxador

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1859 on: July 08, 2017, 08:51:53 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That image is in reference to a specific exploit build though, making use of cancer mage and a specific disease and a bevy of other things to turn your casting stat to strength, then get a specific disease that makes you gain strength, avoid the negative effects of the disease which would otherwise destroy you, and end up with an indefinitely increasing casting stat.

This is 3.5, naturally.
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