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Author Topic: Tabletop Games Thread  (Read 197352 times)

Oneir

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1860 on: July 09, 2017, 09:18:07 am »

I'm also worried about the abundance of useful and deadly cantrips, but I'm almost sold.  Almost.

Just to hit this last point -- cantrips are good, but they're not abundantly good. They're basically an option to do something without spending resources, either because the stakes are low or because you're tapped out. In general, casters don't get great at will damage (warlocks are an exception, but they lose a lot to make Eldritch Blast so good), even though cantrips are scaling beyond a d3 cold damage from 3.5.

Utility-wise, most cantrips are minor, and while ritual casting exists (certain classes can cast certain spells, e.g. identify, over 10 minutes and not have to spend a slot) the casting time means you're sacrificing something even if you're not sacrificing limited resources.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1861 on: July 09, 2017, 09:27:26 am »

Cantrips are basically the equivalent of swinging a sword or shooting a bow. It's a simple action that the character can do forever without running out of resources. I mean, of course, some classes don't get much better then that baseline and some get quite a bit better. But in all cases it's typically an "okay" thing to be doing.

So really, infinite cantrips are there to solve the level 1 wizard issue of being useful in like one encounter per day. They aren't really anything to be worried about. Although I'd say their range is a little bit long. Other then that. It's just the ability to do basic okay actions.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 09:29:42 am by Criptfeind »
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scriver

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1862 on: July 09, 2017, 11:08:53 am »

*swinging the best sword and shooting the best bow

I would be more okay with it if it was the equivalent of a short sword or a club or something. The backup weapon.
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Oneir

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1863 on: July 09, 2017, 12:08:20 pm »

Except you aren't adding any stats, or fighting style bonuses, or really much of anything. So it's a good sword, as swung by someone with noodle arms. The scaling is nice, but it won't ever be as good as spending a limited resource or an at will ability for someone specializing in it (and therefore giving up other things).

Math-wise, remember that going up a die only bumps your average damage by a single point, versus adding 3 or more for being buff, or 7 for being buff and having the right fighting style.
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wierd

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1864 on: July 09, 2017, 12:20:39 pm »

Its been my understanding that a cantrip type spell effect is not intended to be a fully blown effect, like a normal spell. It is a PRACTICE form, which is why the caster can perform it repeatedly, and instinctually (no needed memorization-- it's muscle memory.)

That means it cannot be something strenuous to the caster. It's the equivalent to doing jumping jacks or something-- It is the activity that the caster uses to practice channeling arcane energies. Unless the caster practices by shooting down birds, or blowing up bottles, most cantrips will be harmless things like making pretty colored lights, or silly sounds.

If you are creating a caster with a very unusual cantrip (fireballs? Really?), you need to be able to explain why this caster practices by throwing fireballs around, and how he has managed to avoid catching his house on fire during an uncontrolled training session where he loses focus or concentration.

Upon getting a real and good explanation for it, I would then nerf it and say it is stuck at base level, and cannot be overcharged with additional dice.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 12:22:33 pm by wierd »
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Kadzar

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1865 on: July 09, 2017, 12:51:54 pm »

I mean, you're probably getting a little too hung up on the use of the term "cantrip", though I will say that I somewhat think that maybe they should have separated the "neat, sometimes useful at-will spell effect" from the "at-will magic attack" resource.

But, anyway, in my experience, having that extra dice of damage just brings attack cantrips up to the point of "not quite a total waste of an action" for casters at higher levels (I'm talking like level 7, which is where my players are at right now). Fighters and other non-magic-users are still going to be doing the significant majority of at-will damage, and mages will only really shine when they're expending actual spell slots. Really, trying playing with the rules as written before you go changing things (and with classes that don't get bonuses to cantrip damage, so you don't get skewed results).
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1866 on: July 09, 2017, 12:55:54 pm »

If you are creating a caster with a very unusual cantrip (fireballs? Really?)

I need to show you my character named... Tim.
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Parsely

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1867 on: July 12, 2017, 12:50:11 am »

Just from what I've seen since I was introduced to him a few days ago I recommend Matthew Colville over Spoony (since he was mentioned earlier). Guy actually worked on DnD games and has written for a few video games (Mercenaries 1 and 2) and his DMing is online for people to see. He just seems way more knowledgeable and reasoned.
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RoseHeart

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1868 on: July 12, 2017, 09:32:22 am »

Can we also talk about how underappreciated and awesome Betrayal at House on the Hill is?
Maybe he was having a bad day. Maybe my first impression was correct. I played the creator of this game. The creator of this game is a dick.
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Tawa

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1869 on: July 12, 2017, 11:29:47 am »

Can we also talk about how underappreciated and awesome Betrayal at House on the Hill is?
Maybe he was having a bad day. Maybe my first impression was correct. I played the creator of this game. The creator of this game is a dick.
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Rolan7

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1870 on: July 12, 2017, 04:40:01 pm »

I like when that happens.  Kinda like that recently commentated Doom deathmatch that came up in WTF I think.  That is not dead / which is forever archived.
Alternative:  Forum Gamers have long memories.
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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1871 on: July 12, 2017, 07:41:20 pm »

Anyone played Rifts? Are you supposed to capitalise the name or not?
What's it like?
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NullForceOmega

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1872 on: July 12, 2017, 07:50:15 pm »

I've been playing it for nearly twenty years.

It's a kitchen sink game, magic, technology, dimensional travel, aliens, demons and so on.  The rules are really kind of broken to hell and back.  The setting itself is interesting and fun, but the product as a whole is poorly written, completely unbalanced, and needs to be houseruled into basic functionality.

If you have a good group and are more interested in the setting and cool stuff than well paced and satisfying combat, it is fun to play, but if you want any kind of rules-heavy play just stay away, really.
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scriver

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1873 on: July 13, 2017, 08:49:03 am »

Now I miss AlleeCat.
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Sergius

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1874 on: July 13, 2017, 05:19:38 pm »

Anyone played Rifts? Are you supposed to capitalise the name or not?
What's it like?

I bought every sourcebook.

It's pretty bad.

Nowadays I only read it if I need to be angry about something. Like, if I want to vent, I read the section about how 3 missiles can be dodged but 4 is just impossible. Or the one about how other games are stupid because they don't have exactly 15 character levels.

The setting is maybe good if you want to play it using some other ruleset.
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