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No

Only Judeism

Only Islam

Yes to both Judeism and Islam

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Are you calling humans animals?
Because IIRC humans are not, they are built in the image of god with a soul


You want me to just say my answer with no explanation to why I think it and that's not ok, you want me to say all homosexuals will burn. You are only asking for part of my argument and well you can't really understand it without the whole

Yes homosexuality is a sin
Yes it CAN send someone to hell
Yes it's CAN AND WILL be forgiven by god

[smeeprocket]

It does include lesbianism, it's in there.

Also

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied.

—Gospel of Luke 22:36-38, NIV

So, if you take the homosexuality stuff to heart, do you also believe, that if someone rapes a woman, that woman should have to marry the rapist? Should women be forced to separate themselves from society when on their period? Should women have to praise their husbands' names from the city gates?

edit: no I'm saying other animals are bisexual often, and occasionally homosexual. But afaik, animals can't sin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

The entire animal kingdom is really just one big bisexual orgy.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I'm done argueing your just now looking at any angle that you can call me a bad person just for being part of a religion and Ill have no part
You are poking and prodding to find every flaw that you can call me out on
I'll have no part of it


Also yes I agree with Arx above statement of action>intent>thought
I knew I was forgetting something
The intent is wrong thoughts are uncontrollable at times and actions are well actions

[smeeprocket]

I'm calling you out on your beliefs and holding you accountable. As a person of faith, you should wish to spread the word. This is your chance to shine.

I'm not turning you into a bad person, you are saying things that I find morally abhorrent and diseased. So I am objecting.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I'm calling you out on your beliefs and holding you accountable. As a person of faith, you should wish to spread the word. This is your chance to shine.

I'm not turning you into a bad person, you are saying things that I find morally abhorrent and diseased. So I am objecting.

If you're not trying to make me look bad then why are you only pointing at the 'morally wrong' things I believe?

[Baffler]

You keep adding the so is everything else thing to distract from the reality of what you said, but you've lost me anyway.

You have replaced basic, essential morality with dogma. That is the dangerous thinking I am talking about.

When dogma overrides more logical and sane answers to basic questions of morality, things get ugly fast. That's how people die, that's what has led to slaughter in the name of Christ.

If homosexuality is wrong, why are animals often bisexual and sometimes homosexual? I didn't know animals could sin.

I guess you could say they can't sin in a roundabout sort of way, but not for the reason you're thinking of. An animal doesn't have a soul, at least not in the same way we do. Their souls don't carry on after they die (the reason animals don't go to heaven or hell incidentally) so any mark on that soul doesn't really matter. It's not like God sent them His message and commandments, either.

[smeeprocket]

I'm calling you out on your beliefs and holding you accountable. As a person of faith, you should wish to spread the word. This is your chance to shine.

I'm not turning you into a bad person, you are saying things that I find morally abhorrent and diseased. So I am objecting.

If you're not trying to make me look bad then why are you only pointing at the 'morally wrong' things I believe?

But you don't think they are morally wrong do you? If you believe them then defend them. You shouldn't believe something you yourself think is bad.

I am referencing other parts of the bible that would, in turn, require a literal interpretation, and asking if those too, are something you feel is true.

[Arx]

It does include lesbianism, it's in there.

Also

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied.

—Gospel of Luke 22:36-38, NIV

The thing about buying swords is another ridiculous misinterpretation that can be defeated not through tortured reasoning but by reading the whole passage.

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied.

It is very clear if you read this whole passage that Jesus simply wanted to be arrested so that a prophecy would be fulfilled. Consider also that Jesus rebukes Peter for trying to use one of the swords later ("all who take the sword will perish by the sword")

So, if you take the homosexuality stuff to heart, do you also believe, that if someone rapes a woman, that woman should have to marry the rapist?
Should women be forced to separate themselves from society when on their period?
Should women have to praise their husbands' names from the city gates?.

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride price for virgins." (Exodus 22:16-17) Imperfect but similar to the weregild practice. In this case, the bride price is the sentence imposed by law.
The second two aren't laws regarding sexual immorality (Acts 15:22 on).

I'm not turning you into a bad person, you are saying things that I find morally abhorrent and diseased. So I am objecting.

It would be nice if you could try to avoid calling people diseased and morally abhorrent. I realise you're attacking the beliefs not the person, but it comes down to the same thing. I don't call you diseased and abhorrent because you're bi, so please don't call Christians diseased and abhorrent for not approving of your sexual orientation.

[Andrew425]

I'm calling you out on your beliefs and holding you accountable. As a person of faith, you should wish to spread the word. This is your chance to shine.

I'm not turning you into a bad person, you are saying things that I find morally abhorrent and diseased. So I am objecting.

He's explained his point though, what you're doing is badgering him.

[smjjames]

Obviously you havnt read half my posts in this thread
But I will give the same answer I have been giving


Yes they are, so are thieves, murderers, adulterers, etc etc which everyone is guilty of at least one sin (spare like one or two people in the bible IIRC) so I'm not just going out and saying homosexuals are the worst or they are the only ones who should burn

We all should
I should burn in hell
We all sin and the only proper punishment is burning in hell for eternity.
But as I have said before god sent his son to die one of the worst deaths someone can, just to save us from our sins

Flamestorm ignition ahoy!

Seriously, you think homosexuals are deviants?

[Bohandas]

You keep adding the so is everything else thing to distract from the reality of what you said, but you've lost me anyway.

You have replaced basic, essential morality with dogma. That is the dangerous thinking I am talking about.

When dogma overrides more logical and sane answers to basic questions of morality, things get ugly fast. That's how people die, that's what has led to slaughter in the name of Christ.

If homosexuality is wrong, why are animals often bisexual and sometimes homosexual? I didn't know animals could sin.

I guess you could say they can't sin in a roundabout sort of way, but not for the reason you're thinking of. An animal doesn't have a soul, at least not in the same way we do. Their souls don't carry on after they die (the reason animals don't go to heaven or hell incidentally) so any mark on that soul doesn't really matter. It's not like God sent them His message and commandments, either.

No but according to dogma he created them AND they don't have free will, and therefore 1.) they were born that way and 2.) this is by the will of god

[Arx]

If we could avoid this turning into a flamewar it would be nice. I actually quite enjoy this thread when I don't have a headache and I'm not being insulted, so I'd like to be able to continue debating in it.

You keep adding the so is everything else thing to distract from the reality of what you said, but you've lost me anyway.

You have replaced basic, essential morality with dogma. That is the dangerous thinking I am talking about.

When dogma overrides more logical and sane answers to basic questions of morality, things get ugly fast. That's how people die, that's what has led to slaughter in the name of Christ.

If homosexuality is wrong, why are animals often bisexual and sometimes homosexual? I didn't know animals could sin.

I guess you could say they can't sin in a roundabout sort of way, but not for the reason you're thinking of. An animal doesn't have a soul, at least not in the same way we do. Their souls don't carry on after they die (the reason animals don't go to heaven or hell incidentally) so any mark on that soul doesn't really matter. It's not like God sent them His message and commandments, either.

No but according to dogma he created them AND they don't have free will, and therefore 1.) they were born that way and 2.) this is by the will of god

I don't see your point. I could well be being blind, though.

[smeeprocket]

It does include lesbianism, it's in there.

Also

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied.

—Gospel of Luke 22:36-38, NIV

The thing about buying swords is another ridiculous misinterpretation that can be defeated not through tortured reasoning but by reading the whole passage.

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied.

It is very clear if you read this whole passage that Jesus simply wanted to be arrested so that a prophecy would be fulfilled. Consider also that Jesus rebukes Peter for trying to use one of the swords later ("all who take the sword will perish by the sword")

So, if you take the homosexuality stuff to heart, do you also believe, that if someone rapes a woman, that woman should have to marry the rapist?
Should women be forced to separate themselves from society when on their period?
Should women have to praise their husbands' names from the city gates?.

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride price for virgins." (Exodus 22:16-17) Imperfect but similar to the weregild practice. In this case, the bride price is the sentence imposed by law.
The second two aren't laws regarding sexual immorality (Acts 15:22 on).

I'm not turning you into a bad person, you are saying things that I find morally abhorrent and diseased. So I am objecting.

It would be nice if you could try to avoid calling people diseased and morally abhorrent. I realise you're attacking the beliefs not the person, but it comes down to the same thing. I don't call you diseased and abhorrent because you're bi, so please don't call Christians diseased and abhorrent for not approving of your sexual orientation.

So let me get this straight. Homosexuality is immoral and sinful.

If a man rapes a woman, depending on the father's wishes, she either has to marry him or he pays a fine.

I will call a gangrenous limb as I see it. No offense, but your belief preaches hate towards my existence. Me being bisexual (actually pansexual but whatever) does not affect you in anyway.

So you can see why I might refer to your belief as abhorrent.

I don't care whether those other two laws are regarding sex or not. They are silly, do you believe them?

What do you do in the instances the bible contradicts itself?

Is slavery acceptable to you?

Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

Colossians 3:22
Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.

1 Timothy 6:1
All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered.

Titus 2:9
Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them,

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Fine I'll state my belief only to have it eye balled poked proded and counter argued many times before I just stop posting because it pisses me off


I do believe that a wife should honor her husband
If she is raped she does not have to marry the rapist, if anything the rapist should be executed
If she becomes pregnant, abortion is not ok. It's not the child's fault that someone was a rapist. Yes it's bad that you now have a kid but it's not the kids fault, if you don't want them then give them up to adoption don't kill them.
Men should also honor and love their wives
Spousal abuse is not ok

[smjjames]

As for humans not being animals, well, we all evolved from the same common ancestor and we evolved from earlier primates, and thus, we are a type of animal. We just happen to be intelligent enough to make tools and civilization and all that entails.

Take that creationists!