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No

Only Judeism

Only Islam

Yes to both Judeism and Islam

[smjjames]

The real issue is that if you derive any sort of physical pleasure from a religious act than ypu're not doing it right. The bible is rather clear in this regard.

For the flesh craves anything that opposes The Spirit and The Spirit craves whatever opposes the flesh, and they both are contrary one to another, lest you would be doing whatever you want. -Galatians 5:17

"To be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." -Romans 8:6

   
"Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life." -Galatians 6:8

     

WHat if you enjoy singing?

Seems like it's supposed to be that you aren't supposed to get sexual (the word carnal is a clue here) pleasure out of a religous act.

[smeeprocket]

I don't know, I thought religion was all about guilt and fear. So any happiness would cloud your mind.

The bible kind of rotates between joy and fear a lot. Happy to be afraid of your Lord.

[TheDarkStar]

I don't know, I thought religion was all about guilt and fear. So any happiness would cloud your mind.

The bible kind of rotates between joy and fear a lot. Happy to be afraid of your Lord.

When it says "fear", there are times when it refers to our current usage of fear and other times when it means something closer to "respect" or "revere" iirc. Especially in the Old Testament.

[Arx]

I don't know, I thought religion was all about guilt and fear. So any happiness would cloud your mind.

The bible kind of rotates between joy and fear a lot. Happy to be afraid of your Lord.

When it says "fear", there are times when it refers to our current usage of fear and other times when it means something closer to "respect" or "revere" iirc. Especially in the Old Testament.

Yep, pretty much. Also, not so much guilt unless you were being taught a slightly skewed version, IMO. I can see how it would get there though.

[smeeprocket]

I don't know, I thought religion was all about guilt and fear. So any happiness would cloud your mind.

The bible kind of rotates between joy and fear a lot. Happy to be afraid of your Lord.

When it says "fear", there are times when it refers to our current usage of fear and other times when it means something closer to "respect" or "revere" iirc. Especially in the Old Testament.

Yep, pretty much. Also, not so much guilt unless you were being taught a slightly skewed version, IMO. I can see how it would get there though.

I remember feeling pretty damn guilty.

Also when you God annihilates entire cities and plays games with the lives of your children, I think the fear term is more literal than that.

God is a vengeful God.

[Arx]

I remember feeling pretty damn guilty.

THen I hypothesise that it was presented differently to you than to me. Not much to do about thst.

[smeeprocket]

I remember feeling pretty damn guilty.

THen I hypothesise that it was presented differently to you than to me. Not much to do about thst.

Maybe I just took it in differently. The whole being inherently sinful and constantly sinning made me feel like shit.

[Arx]

The point is that you don't have to feel bad about not being perfect; that's why Jesus sacrificed himself. It's a self-improvement struggle, but it doesn't require you to be perfect.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

The point is that you don't have to feel bad about not being perfect; that's why Jesus sacrificed himself. It's a self-improvement struggle, but it doesn't require you to be perfect.

It does however require asking forgiveness and thanking god for forgiving

[Bohandas]

And just generally being obsequious

[smeeprocket]

An being beholden to god and his standards.

So you are up against a value set that you fail by virtue of being human. Your only option is to beg forgiveness from a god who set this unrealistic expectation in place, and then gratefully thank him for having mercy on you.

But then again, he is omniscient and omnipotent, so he knew the way in which you were going to sin each time and your every response to every stimulus laid before you, so you aren't really the one sinning. He has guided you perfectly into sin. So that you will ask for his forgiveness yada yada yada.

[TD1]

See, this is what happens when I leave the thread to go to sleep...

Also:

*Shrug*

I always saw it as the most stupid argument, but "it's a priori" and "it has modern supporters" are the two strengths of the argument I was taught.

a priori is only a strength if you have something to hide. With the possible exception of the realm of pure mathematics a priori knowledge and reasoning seems mainly concerned with pointless tautologies, appeals to truthiness, vacuous truths, meaningless quibbling over semantics, and of course the disguising of bullshit by clever combInation of the previous three factors

I raised similar opinions (put in a slightly different way, of course ) to my teacher. She said that if its premises are truly convincing, it is very strong because it is based on logic applicable to all, rather than empirical evidence which is more subjective from person to person.

I didn't buy it, of course, and I only said in my essay that "for a believer, an a priori argument seems stronger, but for those with an atheistic bent it "does not contain one single bit of evidence from the real world," in the words of Dawkins.

Note: the quote from Dawkins isn't quite right, I think. Had trouble remembering it, but it's along those lines anyway.

[smjjames]

The gods be fickle, just look at Zeus, or Hera, or, oh I dunno, any myth.

[TD1]

"As flies to wanton boys are we to the Gods. They kill us for their sport." -Gloucester in Shakespeare's King Lear.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

"As flies to wanton boys are we to the Gods. They kill us for their sport." -Gloucester in Shakespeare's King Lear.

The gods be fickle, just look at Zeus, or Hera, or, oh I dunno, any myth.

I believe I've said it before
No insulting someone's god!
And don't go off saying that calling him them all fickle is not an insult
And adding that second part wasn't necessary