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[mastahcheese]

There was a brief bit on division of souls I'd like to ask a question on.

Jaysus said that if "Your eye causes you to sin, cut it out and cast it aside, lest all of you be cast into hell." followed (or maybe preceded) by "If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it aside, lest your whole being be cast into hell."

Not exact words cause it's been a while since I read it, but what are people's thoughts on this in regards to divisions of the soul? I think it's relevent.

[mastahcheese]

Just saying: Why would God only reveal his word to some people? I mean, sure, the word spread from a point of origin...but that was in one point in time and space. I'm sure there are tribes who have never heard of Jesus....would a loving God bring them into a world and place where the only possible outcome was eternal damnation?

Mormon doctrine talks a bit on this.

According to the Book of Mormon*, the soul doesn't depart from Earth to go straight to Heaven/Hell, but that it stop midway in this "Spirit World". In this Spirit World, the good people (Those who know of God and follow him) reside in "Spirit Paradise", while others (Those who don't follow god, either by choice or ignorance) reside in "Spirit Prison", where the people in Spirit Prison are educated by the people in Spirit Paradise on the truth of god and whathaveyou, basically giving every soul a second chance, in an environment where you can't really fail, unless on purpose.

Continueing this, there is more than one Heaven.
On the highest tier, (The Sun Domain, or whatever the heck it's called) resides God himself, and those who are truly devout.
Below that, the Moon Domain (I'm probably getting names of these messed up, sorry) where those who are good people in general, but don't follow god, reside. It's still a good place, but you don't have the glory of God's direct presence.
Further below this, is the Star Domain (still wrong, I'm sure) wherein lies everyone else. All the people who are horrible and whatnot. This isn't hell, though, it's basically just a place of great loneliness, where you eternally know that you could have done better, but you aren't activily tortured, or anything.
At the very bottom lies Hell itself. Supposedly, humans will never actually go here, it's just populated with demons and Satan, forever shut off from God and righteousness^TM.


*Basically, the idea behind the book of Mormon is that the order goes: Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, making it the third book in the Bible Trilogy. It covers Jesus' trip to the American continents to spread the word of God over there, along with other things.

[Biowraith]

all because we have terrible self control

Self control wouldn't have been a factor.

Eating the fruit gives knowledge of good and evil.  Therefore they'd not know that breaking the rule and eating the fruit was wrong (indeed, the very concept of "wrong" would be beyond their comprehension) because they hadn't eaten the fruit yet.  If they don't know it's wrong they'd have no reason to try not to eat the fruit i.e. they'd have no reason to attempt to exercise self control.

[smjjames]

Just saying: Why would God only reveal his word to some people? I mean, sure, the word spread from a point of origin...but that was in one point in time and space. I'm sure there are tribes who have never heard of Jesus....would a loving God bring them into a world and place where the only possible outcome was eternal damnation?

Mormon doctrine talks a bit on this.

According to the Book of Mormon*, the soul doesn't depart from Earth to go straight to Heaven/Hell, but that it stop midway in this "Spirit World". In this Spirit World, the good people (Those who know of God and follow him) reside in "Spirit Paradise", while others (Those who don't follow god, either by choice or ignorance) reside in "Spirit Prison", where the people in Spirit Prison are educated by the people in Spirit Paradise on the truth of god and whathaveyou, basically giving every soul a second chance, in an environment where you can't really fail, unless on purpose.

Continueing this, there is more than one Heaven.
On the highest tier, (The Sun Domain, or whatever the heck it's called) resides God himself, and those who are truly devout.
Below that, the Moon Domain (I'm probably getting names of these messed up, sorry) where those who are good people in general, but don't follow god, reside. It's still a good place, but you don't have the glory of God's direct presence.
Further below this, is the Star Domain (still wrong, I'm sure) wherein lies everyone else. All the people who are horrible and whatnot. This isn't hell, though, it's basically just a place of great loneliness, where you eternally know that you could have done better, but you aren't activily tortured, or anything.
At the very bottom lies Hell itself. Supposedly, humans will never actually go here, it's just populated with demons and Satan, forever shut off from God and righteousness^TM.


*Basically, the idea behind the book of Mormon is that the order goes: Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, making it the third book in the Bible Trilogy. It covers Jesus' trip to the American continents to spread the word of God over there, along with other things.

Does it actually say that Jesus travelled to the Americas or is that just a metaphor/allegory/whatever for the Europeans spreading christianity to the Americas?

[mastahcheese]

No, it was Jesus himself, supposedly.
*Shrugs*
Also, the three days Jesus was dead, he was in the Spirit World, educating people on how the system was supposed to work.

[smjjames]

No, it was Jesus himself, supposedly.
*Shrugs*
Also, the three days Jesus was dead, he was in the Spirit World, educating people on how the system was supposed to work.

Riiiight, and Jesus boated across the Atlantic around 30-40 AD, centuries before any Europeans reached the Americas, thus spreading Christianity long before Europeans even got there.

Though I suppose that you could argue that the natives killed Jesus when he tried to do that.

[mastahcheese]

Riiiight, and Jesus boated across the Atlantic around 30-40 AD, centuries before any Europeans reached the Americas, thus spreading Christianity long before Europeans even got there.

Though I suppose that you could argue that the natives killed Jesus when he tried to do that.

It's been too long since it was explained to me to remember, but basically I was told that he didn't need a boat.
I guess he either god-teleported over there, or walked across the entire damn ocean on foot.
I really don't remember that part well enough, though.
I'll see about fishing out my book o' Mormon from wherever it is and looking for it.

[Arx]

Jaysus said that if "Your eye causes you to sin, cut it out and cast it aside, lest all of you be cast into hell." followed (or maybe preceded) by "If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it aside, lest your whole being be cast into hell."

If I rephrase that as "If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off so that you do not sin", does that make more sense? I'm reasonably certain that's what Jesus was getting at. I think he used both the eye and the hand as examples, because redundancy is good when you're speaking to crowds.

[smjjames]

Jaysus said that if "Your eye causes you to sin, cut it out and cast it aside, lest all of you be cast into hell." followed (or maybe preceded) by "If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it aside, lest your whole being be cast into hell."

If I rephrase that as "If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off so that you do not sin", does that make more sense? I'm reasonably certain that's what Jesus was getting at. I think he used both the eye and the hand as examples, because redundancy is good when you're speaking to crowds.

Until people start taking it too literally and cut each others hands off or putting each others eyes out, or other body parts even.

[Arcvasti]

Just saying: Why would God only reveal his word to some people? I mean, sure, the word spread from a point of origin...but that was in one point in time and space. I'm sure there are tribes who have never heard of Jesus....would a loving God bring them into a world and place where the only possible outcome was eternal damnation?

Mormon doctrine talks a bit on this.

According to the Book of Mormon*, the soul doesn't depart from Earth to go straight to Heaven/Hell, but that it stop midway in this "Spirit World". In this Spirit World, the good people (Those who know of God and follow him) reside in "Spirit Paradise", while others (Those who don't follow god, either by choice or ignorance) reside in "Spirit Prison", where the people in Spirit Prison are educated by the people in Spirit Paradise on the truth of god and whathaveyou, basically giving every soul a second chance, in an environment where you can't really fail, unless on purpose.

Sounds very similar to Purgatory, but with up to 70% less soul cleansing via holy fire.

[Arx]

Jaysus said that if "Your eye causes you to sin, cut it out and cast it aside, lest all of you be cast into hell." followed (or maybe preceded) by "If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it aside, lest your whole being be cast into hell."

If I rephrase that as "If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off so that you do not sin", does that make more sense? I'm reasonably certain that's what Jesus was getting at. I think he used both the eye and the hand as examples, because redundancy is good when you're speaking to crowds.

Until people start taking it too literally and cut each others hands off or putting each others eyes out, or other body parts even.

I think it's fairly safe to say Jesus was speaking mostly figuratively there (you could probably get in-depth about doing good possibly cancelling sin and not stopping yourself doing much good to prevent yourself from little sin), much like the removal of kebabs planks from people's eyes.

[MonkeyHead]

Just saying: Why would God only reveal his word to some people? I mean, sure, the word spread from a point of origin...but that was in one point in time and space. I'm sure there are tribes who have never heard of Jesus....would a loving God bring them into a world and place where the only possible outcome was eternal damnation?

Mormon doctrine talks a bit on this.

According to the Book of Mormon*, the soul doesn't depart from Earth to go straight to Heaven/Hell, but that it stop midway in this "Spirit World". In this Spirit World, the good people (Those who know of God and follow him) reside in "Spirit Paradise", while others (Those who don't follow god, either by choice or ignorance) reside in "Spirit Prison", where the people in Spirit Prison are educated by the people in Spirit Paradise on the truth of god and whathaveyou, basically giving every soul a second chance, in an environment where you can't really fail, unless on purpose.

Sounds very similar to Purgatory, but with up to 70% less soul cleansing via holy fire.

Spoiler: Relevant image is relevant (click to show/hide)

[TD1]

Just saying: Why would God only reveal his word to some people? I mean, sure, the word spread from a point of origin...but that was in one point in time and space. I'm sure there are tribes who have never heard of Jesus....would a loving God bring them into a world and place where the only possible outcome was eternal damnation?

Mormon doctrine talks a bit on this.

According to the Book of Mormon*, the soul doesn't depart from Earth to go straight to Heaven/Hell, but that it stop midway in this "Spirit World". In this Spirit World, the good people (Those who know of God and follow him) reside in "Spirit Paradise", while others (Those who don't follow god, either by choice or ignorance) reside in "Spirit Prison", where the people in Spirit Prison are educated by the people in Spirit Paradise on the truth of god and whathaveyou, basically giving every soul a second chance, in an environment where you can't really fail, unless on purpose.

Sounds very similar to Purgatory, but with up to 70% less soul cleansing via holy fire.

Spoiler: Relevant image is relevant (click to show/hide)

Hahahaha

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Humanity was put on earth with one rule
Don't eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil
then a snake came down and told them to eat it

we at it

now we have death, pain in child birth, and taking care of the earth is more difficult. Also we got kicked from a garden that might as well be heaven

all because we have terrible self control

Personally, if that is what happened, then I'm glad it did.

I mean, without it, we would never have been born. I prefer existence to non-existence.

Of course, there's also the point that God would know that Adam and Eve would eat of the Tree, because of his Omnipotence.

Actually we would still exist just our mother wouldn't have gone through birth pain. That wouldn't have been a punishment unless she was already going to be having kids in the first place

[Frumple]

Riiiight, and Jesus boated across the Atlantic around 30-40 AD, centuries before any Europeans reached the Americas, thus spreading Christianity long before Europeans even got there.

No, no, remember who you're talking about, Jesubro would have just walked. Plenty of material for fish sandwiches (that is to say, fish, and fish transmuted into bread) and wine (Jesus), so he'd be good on vittles. Not sure on the exposure, but I imagine anything that doesn't turn to ash when confronted with the infinitely scouring light of YWHW can handle a bit of UV.

... more seriously, from what I recall we do have a certain degree of evidence pointing to african groups having made the trip across the atlantic long before any europeans made it, so someone from upper africa/middle east getting there isn't the most impossible thing in the world, all things considered.

There aren't any first hand accounts of Christ's actions to begin with, iirc, so the critter taking a stroll across the atlantic and doing whatever is about as plausible as anything.