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[Vitellozzo]

Hands and even (usually) arms. Both hunting and fighting with things like first invaders.
Even if they should not use shields, we could put a buckler-like shield-slot thing, like a rigid covering for gauntlets that is used to parry the user but losing the free hand. It could work like a smaller buckler.

Anyway, what does that meand?

Wasps can embark aboveground and underground, then can settle on cold and scorching biomes without much hassle and can build the complex mechanisms required to breach aquifers.

>complex mechanisms breaching aquifers

[than402]

it means they have access to everything required to build, maintain and operate pumps basically.

i'll think it about the buckler, but keep in mind: they'll be able to hold 3 of them and a weapon, so that's the reason they don't have access to shields. if we do include it, it will be quite small. also i'll run some tests to see how well wasps fare against dangers one more time.

[Vitellozzo]

it means they have access to everything required to build, maintain and operate pumps basically.

i'll think it about the buckler, but keep in mind: they'll be able to hold 3 of them and a weapon, so that's the reason they don't have access to shields. if we do include it, it will be quite small. also i'll run some tests to see how well wasps fare against dangers one more time.

Yes, I was thinking of something smaller than a buckler: right big as one hand, basically. It's because they can train into defence like this, but they are incapable of making true shields (and bucklers) because they tend to favor a more aggressive combat style.
And, after all, for really big shields we just have to wait for the goblinite.

[than402]

it is inevitable that the player will eventually gain access to large shields. we were just trying to impose a semblance of balance.

smaller bucklers it is, then

[Vitellozzo]

Maybe we can call them "defenders"?


Also, I saw a war Colossal Giant Worm in the pet list. I now know what  I should ask to Santa Claus...

ps: I hate embark crashes.

[than402]

yup. it's very expensive, however. but regular Giant Worms kick ass. this cute thing kicks ass square.

also i ran a few tests. a naked soldier caste with no skills kicked a black bear's ass, got murdered by a blind cave bear and put up a very good show against a bind cave ogre. an armored but still unskilled/unarmed soldier could kill an alligator 50% of the times and even when it lost it still caused significant wounds. personally, i'm satisfied with the results.

[than402]

ah crap, I found some duplicates... That would also explain the embark crash. Well, at least they're easy to fix.

EDIT: new fix release. may it be the last one. good riddance to the duplicates, let's try out the Defender.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9734

[heydude6]

Man it's been a long time since I made a big post.

Anyways questions.
Do we have a use for the following labours and what are they? (left is what they are in vanilla and right is what they are in masterwork)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

lye making/Alchemy

potash making/chemist and soap making

Fish dissector/fish farmer

Pressing/researching

Pottery/scribe (The actual pottery part of the skill has been moved into stonecrafting, so just worry about scribe)

alchemy/sorcery

glazer/toolmaker

The current pressing labour we're familiar with is THRESHER/MILLER/PRESSER

clothing ideas:
We can't have wasps not have clothing since shoes are very important to avoid stepping on necrotic forgotten beast blood. So far for spriting reasons I have unofficially added the following clothing (to the sprites not the game)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Bandanas for headgear, only a few wasps wear them. Mostly the ones in the clothing industry.

Aprons (fish disector, butcher, cook, and cheesemaker all wear them)

cloaks/capes (currently the nobility have them)

Full body suit (the seige operator is wearing it right now. Can possibly be divided into shirt and pants if not possible to mod in)

Anyway that's all I had to say, We still need ideas for footwear though.


Also if you want to implement defenders, then 3 defenders should have the effectiveness of one full-size shield if you can do that. Also keep the reduced sheildskill learn rate.

[than402]

Man it's been a long time since I made a big post.

Anyways questions.
Do we have a use for the following labours and what are they? (left is what they are in vanilla and right is what they are in masterwork)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

lye making/Alchemy

potash making/chemist and soap making

Fish dissector/fish farmer

Pressing/researching

Pottery/scribe (The actual pottery part of the skill has been moved into stonecrafting, so just worry about scribe)

alchemy/sorcery

glazer/toolmaker

The current pressing labour we're familiar with is THRESHER/MILLER/PRESSER

all of them as is in vanilla except for the alchemist which is the poisonmaker.

clothing ideas:
We can't have wasps not have clothing since shoes are very important to avoid stepping on necrotic forgotten beast blood. So far for spriting reasons I have unofficially added the following clothing (to the sprites not the game)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Bandanas for headgear, only a few wasps wear them. Mostly the ones in the clothing industry.

Aprons (fish disector, butcher, cook, and cheesemaker all wear them)

cloaks/capes (currently the nobility have them)

Full body suit (the seige operator is wearing it right now. Can possibly be divided into shirt and pants if not possible to mod in)

Anyway that's all I had to say, We still need ideas for footwear though.

sandals and clogs (and a reaction to make them out of paper cement)

Also if you want to implement defenders, then 3 defenders should have the effectiveness of one full-size shield if you can do that. Also keep the reduced sheildskill learn rate.

yes, I made them weak and kept the reduced learn rate, so they won't be OP. just another small addition.

[smakemupagus]

The name "defender" sounds like something that would be quite good for defense, not the opposite! ... How bad are these things, anyway?  bucklers are already pretty bad.

[than402]

half as good as bucklers... on the bright side, wasps can carry 3 of them.

maybe I overdid it with the badness?

[Vitellozzo]

So, did you added the Defender to the whole?
Where we can build it? I've updated the new fort with the files but I cannot see defenders into the work manager screen.

The name "defender" sounds like something that would be quite good for defense, not the opposite! ... How bad are these things, anyway?  bucklers are already pretty bad.

In fact they are better than nothing to defend: aside from that, you have to interpole the defender between your hand and the weapon to actually defend yourself. As like as other civilizations use shields that shield them, the wasps have invented a defender that defend them.
And since they are all for mobility, heavy weapons and big punches, and they have natural armor, their defending items are quite light in comparison with other races.

half as good as bucklers... on the bright side, wasps can carry 3 of them.

maybe I overdid it with the badness?

Let's try it before calling it underpowered: one version ago, they had nothing for the shield slot.

[than402]

weird. you should be able to build it in the carpenter or in the forge, like any other shield. In fact, I tried it out and it worked...

wait, you updated? you can't change entity files in a save, game, that's why it's not in your game.

[smakemupagus]

The name "defender" sounds like something that would be quite good for defense, not the opposite! ... How bad are these things, anyway?  bucklers are already pretty bad.

In fact they are better than nothing to defend: aside from that, you have to interpole the defender between your hand and the weapon to actually defend yourself. As like as other civilizations use shields that shield them, the wasps have invented a defender that defend them.

I have no opinion on the balance, I just think players will assume it's good from that name, or just not even know what it is.  I don't have a different suggestion though, because I also don't really understand what it is   Something like "parrying noun" or "defending noun" where *noun* is some word that sounds like it's likely to be smaller(?) or worse at blocking than a buckler.

feel free to disregard, just my 2c.

[than402]

waspen buckler is the most neutral name I can think of. In the next edition, maybe we can name them like that

also I noticed something weird... not quite a bug, since it doesn't mess with the game, but by running "make waspen crafts" you can only make large gems made by your reagent.

and wasps could do with more gem shapes... and the pack animals bug I though I had fixed is, in fact, still around...