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[Grim Portent]

Houston saw a 30% increase in teen drug use because of DARE, which means about 25% of all young people in trouble for drugs there are probably in trouble because of the DARE program

How can one strengthen that the increased drug use is because of DARE, and not just concurrent with it?

Main method would be comparing rates of drug use between participants in the program and non-participants.

[Reelya]

That's what the linked source actually said:

https://alcoholfacts.org/DARE.html

"In Houston, Texas, where a study showed a shocking 29% increase in drug usage and a 34% increase in tobacco usage among students participating in DARE"

I did a bit of digging,and the author of that is Professor emeritus of sociology David J. Hanson at the State University of New York, who is a specialist in alcohol policy apparently. So it checks out as being written by someone with the right academic credentials. But I'm having less luck digging up primary research for that, so YMMV. We don't know how big that sample group was etc.

There are other studies however, and the consensus seems to be that in some groups, DARE has a small positive effect, which in other populations, it had a small negative effect. But hey, it has been completely re-written now from what I glean so that info might be correct, but out of date: it's just too common that such programs are completely "evidence-proof" and keep doing the same thing forever despite a lack of evidence that it works - similar to abstinence programs, AA, and the Duluth model. So, I'd still be skeptical to the same degree that I'd be skeptical about an "improved" abstinence-based sex ed. class.

[Sheb]

Houston saw a 30% increase in teen drug use because of DARE, which means about 25% of all young people in trouble for drugs there are probably in trouble because of the DARE program

How can one strengthen that the increased drug use is because of DARE, and not just concurrent with it?

Main method would be comparing rates of drug use between participants in the program and non-participants.

That only works if the people going in the program and the people not going are comparable. If, eg, schools districts in parts with more drug problem are more likely to implement it, you wouldn't see an effect. So ideally, you'd need a randomized control trial.

[SalmonGod]

So... to change the subject...

I just learned about the story of Lt. Greg Brachle.

This guy encountered another officer who was undercover in a drug operation, and unloaded 9 bullets into the undercover officer when he caught a glimpse of a weapon.

This was a couple years ago.  So apparently police aren't even capable of learning about how their behaviors endanger innocent people, when it's so bad that they're shooting their own.

[Frumple]

Not in blue, seven by two.

... though that's slightly abusing the casket dimensions I just looked up. Rhyme is more important, I guess.

Could swear I've heard something like that bit of rhyme, though. Now kinda' wish I could remember where...

[martinuzz]

Wow, not my experience at all. I remember my SRO's name; I can't remember my DARE officer's name.

People loved Officer PJ. Everyone said hi to him in the halls and would chat him up or vicea versa. But he was a rather jolly looking fellow in his mid 30s. Not some edgelord in mirror shades.

Put another way: the actual security guards hired for the school were considered pricks by all the students, because they were huge muscle bound dudes who didn't want to talk to students. When students didn't like how the security guards were treating them, they'd ask for Officer PJ to make an appearance.

The whole concept of having police officers and security guards at schools strikes me as completely alien. It would make me ponder my society's paranoia level.

EDIT:sry bit of a late comment was reading back a few pages.

[SalmonGod]

Wow, not my experience at all. I remember my SRO's name; I can't remember my DARE officer's name.

People loved Officer PJ. Everyone said hi to him in the halls and would chat him up or vicea versa. But he was a rather jolly looking fellow in his mid 30s. Not some edgelord in mirror shades.

Put another way: the actual security guards hired for the school were considered pricks by all the students, because they were huge muscle bound dudes who didn't want to talk to students. When students didn't like how the security guards were treating them, they'd ask for Officer PJ to make an appearance.

The whole concept of having police officers and security guards at schools strikes me as completely alien. It would make me ponder my society's paranoia level.

Police/security at schools started becoming more common after Columbine, and really took off after 9/11.  Now it seems like it's standard basically everywhere.  My school had police on site to monitor parking lot chaos in 2000.  My kids have never experienced school without police presence.

[martinuzz]

Sounds pretty dystopic to me. Living in constant fear of something bad happening, and being reminded of it on a general population level to such extent that it has encroached even such places of innocence as schools should be, is worrisome. Paranoia / fear equals stress. Constant stress ruins mind and body, not to mention that it creates an atmosphere where polarization and xenophobia, empty promises and other mindfuckery can thrive for offering a false sense of security.

[redwallzyl]

Wow, not my experience at all. I remember my SRO's name; I can't remember my DARE officer's name.

People loved Officer PJ. Everyone said hi to him in the halls and would chat him up or vicea versa. But he was a rather jolly looking fellow in his mid 30s. Not some edgelord in mirror shades.

Put another way: the actual security guards hired for the school were considered pricks by all the students, because they were huge muscle bound dudes who didn't want to talk to students. When students didn't like how the security guards were treating them, they'd ask for Officer PJ to make an appearance.

The whole concept of having police officers and security guards at schools strikes me as completely alien. It would make me ponder my society's paranoia level.

EDIT:sry bit of a late comment was reading back a few pages.

It's part paranoia, part legitimate fear and totally all our fault in the end. We waged the drug war on ourselves and this is the result.

[SalmonGod]

The more cynical part of me sees it as less about providing peace of mind through security theater, and more about using that excuse to inoculate children against questioning the post-911 norm of intrusive law enforcement presence in daily life.  People only a few years younger than me see overbearing surveillance, TSA groping, etc as just reality.  They don't remember a time where it wasn't normal.  And it starts with a police officer high-fiving all the kindergartners as they file into the school building.

[Rolan7]

If a barrier is tall enough, few people will try to climb it.  Does that mean it isn't stopping people?

I like that it's "alien" for trained officers to be armed at schools, regular sites of brutal shootings...  But people should have a right to privacy when boarding airplanes, enough that they could carry deadly weapons?

Every week or two I see officers with holstered pistols in line for fast food.  That bothers me more than the dozens of people I statistically passed by who were concealed-carrying.  Emotion trumping a modicum of thought...  I can't *see* the concealed carries, so they're out of sight, out of mind.

[SalmonGod]

They're not regular sites of brutal shootings in places that don't regularly post police officers there...

I don't like guns in general.  Fun for video games and shooting ranges and stuff.  But for practical reality, I'm of the opinion that anything beyond bow + arrow level weapons technology is only necessary for the killing of other human beings, and thus shouldn't be made.  No, I don't like the thought that I pass people concealed carrying all the time.  But there's not much I can do about it.

[scriver]

Not in blue, seven by two.

... though that's slightly abusing the casket dimensions I just looked up. Rhyme is more important, I guess.

Could swear I've heard something like that bit of rhyme, though. Now kinda' wish I could remember where...

Two by two, hands in blue?

[Strife26]

Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six is a popular one for cops too. Not that they're frequently judged for it.

[redwallzyl]

Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six is a popular one for cops too. Not that they're frequently judged for it.

there is an irony in that. As they in the process of following that inflict the latter on others.