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[IronyOwl]

So, first time I've been in this thread, is it safe to say that I'm the only person here who thinks that most of the "abusive policing" cases in recent memory were caused not by the police but by the jerkasses who decided it was a good idea to ATTACK THEM?

Rule of thumb: if you decide to beat on someone who has a gun, what happens next is your own damn fault.

Well, question: How far does this guideline extend? Would the same apply to, say, talking smack on an armed person, or professing enjoyment of something potentially not popular amongst a group of people you can't take?

[Darvi]

Hilariously that one is the one that the protesters and such pretty much went "yup, that was fair" and then went back to defending the career criminals strangling police officers.

Eric Garner wasn't a police officer

...plus it was the other way around.

"career criminals strangling police officers" = police officers who strangle career criminals.

I mean get your ambiguous syntax straight geez.

[scriver]

No, Leafsnail made a sarcasm by saying policemen are career criminals.

[SalmonGod]

I'd like to know which cases BFEL (or his mom) has been paying attention to.  The majority I see are police brutalizing non-violent people.  Unless you take the lingo that police use to describe their encounters at face value (i.e. struggling to breath when there's a knee on your neck = resisting arrest).

Sadly, the clear cut cases tend not to gain much attention from the mainstream media somehow.  The ones where, for example, a suspect manages to shoot himself in the chest while sitting in the back of a police cruiser after he's been searched for weapons and his hands are cuffed behind his back.  Or where there's video leaked of officers literally saying "Oh hey we should turn the cameras off before we do this."

[Morrigi]

I'd like to know which cases BFEL (or his mom) has been paying attention to.  The majority I see are police brutalizing non-violent people.  Unless you take the lingo that police use to describe their encounters at face value (i.e. struggling to breath when there's a knee on your neck = resisting arrest).

Sadly, the clear cut cases tend not to gain much attention from the mainstream media somehow.  The ones where, for example, a suspect manages to shoot himself in the chest while sitting in the back of a police cruiser after he's been searched for weapons and his hands are cuffed behind his back.  Or where there's video leaked of officers literally saying "Oh hey we should turn the cameras off before we do this."

Yeah, that's what really puzzles me about this whole mess. The cases that the protesters latch on to are the absolute worst and most ambiguous, and are sometimes based on outright lies, while very clear-cut cases of brutality are out there that no one would question. On a related note, there's this article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/03/16/lesson-learned-from-the-shooting-of-michael-brown/

[Descan]

It's because they're ambiguous that they get picked up. Clear-cut ones, everyone says "Yeah, that's obviously wrong of the police," and no one gets worked up over them. Ones where you see one thing happening, others see another, and you start arguing with each other? You get worked up, and you're more likely to actually go onto the streets because it's become so important to you.

[Morrigi]

It's because they're ambiguous that they get picked up. Clear-cut ones, everyone says "Yeah, that's obviously wrong of the police," and no one gets worked up over them. Ones where you see one thing happening, others see another, and you start arguing with each other? You get worked up, and you're more likely to actually go onto the streets because it's become so important to you.

And then the whole narrative gets kicked down because often, like in the Mike Brown case, it turns out that they were a combination of wrong and lying, accomplishing nothing. It's extremely counterproductive, and I would go as far as to say that this behavior can increase racism instead of lessening it, because average people are having their daily lives disrupted over something that turns out to be based on a lie.

[IronyOwl]

It's extremely counterproductive

This tends to be the theme of most things people are able to get worked up over in the first place. If you're calm enough to be rational and effective, you're probably not motivated enough to actually do anything about it. If you're incensed enough to go out and make a difference, you're probably only about as effective in doing so as any other relatively large angry mammal.

[SalmonGod]

How about this one.

[Xantalos]

See now that is an entirely justified reaction to the situation, beat the guy who had nothing to do with the scenario to death. /sarcasm

[Bauglir]

"But," the police may reason, "this is Oklahoma! Concealed carry is legal here - maybe he was armed!"

[nenjin]

How about this one.

Jesus christ. Sometimes I gotta wonder if shit breaks down before cops even show. Like, I've become jaded enough to expect cops to just pull up, jump out the car and take out the first black guy they see. But I wonder what the 911 call actually read like. I wonder what the dispatcher told the cops. I'm not looking to absolve anyone. More like:

"911 what is your emergency?"

"There's this black family having dispute. Someone hit someone. I think you should show up."

"Unit 12, we have a domestic violence call in front of the cinema and someone's been assaulted. Description is large black male adult, black female adult, black female teen. Suspect is on the move."

"Let's get that motherfucker!"

[Xantalos]

I could very well see that happening actually, but it still doesn't warrant beating a guy to death for not producing ID.

[nenjin]

I could very well see that happening actually, but it still doesn't warrant beating a guy to death for not producing ID.

That's why I think it was punishing him. In a situation where you're acting before you barely any of the facts, you think every second matters, and you go with your default assumption (some black guy beating on his family) in makes sense, even if it's horrific. They beat the shit out of him, and he died later in the hospital. That's different than literally killing him where they brought him down, but not by much. But I can see a cop, not well disposed toward black men, assuming the worst and wanting to deal some punishment, going over board.

[SalmonGod]

How about this one.

Jesus christ. Sometimes I gotta wonder if shit breaks down before cops even show. Like, I've become jaded enough to expect cops to just pull up, jump out the car and take out the first black guy they see. But I wonder what the 911 call actually read like. I wonder what the dispatcher told the cops. I'm not looking to absolve anyone. More like:

"911 what is your emergency?"

"There's this black family having dispute. Someone hit someone. I think you should show up."

"Unit 12, we have a domestic violence call in front of the cinema and someone's been assaulted. Description is large black male adult, black female adult, black female teen. Suspect is on the move."

"Let's get that motherfucker!"

This happens, and it can get really ugly.  I posted an incredible example once on this board before, but my post doesn't turn up in a search for some reason.  I hate typing it all up again.

But there was a case in Cleveland in 2012, where an officer thought he heard a gunshot from a passing vehicle.  It was really just a noise from the car's shitty engine backfiring.  But the officer started chasing the car and called for back-up.

We'll never know why the suspects didn't stop, but it's reasonably assumed that it's because they were somewhat intoxicated at the time, meaning fear of being caught combined with impaired judgement.  IIRC, moderate amounts of alcohol and small amounts of cocaine were found in the suspect's bloodwork.

So this officer started putting out calls for back-up, saying he heard gunshots.  News started spreading around between on-duty officers at the time that this chase was going on, and it turned into a super-intense massive game of telephone, with the story continually getting more and more exaggerated as it got passed around.  Before long, officers were joining in the chase, believing that some insane criminals were rampaging around the city shooting shit up like something out of Payday.

Before the chase concluded, there were 104 officers involved in 5 dozen cruisers, even after dispatchers began frantically ordering most of them to disengage (they straight up ignored these orders).  The suspects finally stopped in an empty (thank god) parking lot, and police immediately surrounded them, leapt out of their cars, and opened fire.  In the chaos, police actually believed that their own crossfire was the suspects shooting back, which drove on the shooting.  They shot several of their own vehicles, and it's a miracle none of them were injured by friendly fire.  One officer jumped on the hood of the suspect's vehicle and didn't just unload through their windshield, but reloaded multiple times and kept going.

In all, over 137 shots were fired before they realized how stupid they were, and found two unarmed people in the suspect vehicle, each dead from over 20 gunshot wounds.