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[Vilanat]

Blow out panels from an inside explosion? never heard of such a thing. usually its the other way around. reactive armour which blows outside to mitigate incoming tandem missiles.

[martinuzz]

I'm not sure why that would be per difinition the result of an internal ammo detonation, and not a direct hit with a high explosive round (which would probably also detonate the internal ammo, nevertheless).

[Strife26]

Blow out panels from an inside explosion? never heard of such a thing. usually its the other way around. reactive armour which blows outside to mitigate incoming tandem missiles.

Blow out panels and reactive armor are different things.

[Sergarr]

Spoiler: poor Leo (click to show/hide)

Apparently, finest German engineering can't keep the turret where it should be. Very typical ammo detonation. I thought only Russian tanks were bad enough for that to happen, but apparently not.

I thought leopards had blow out panels that direct most of the blast away from the tank's interior in case of an ammo detonation....

I thought so too, but, as evident by the photographs and some random discussion on the Internet, it doesn't actually have those. Abrams does, but Abrams is an American tank. European mainstay tank is Leopard 2, and evidently it's just as dangerous to its crew as the Russian "death-traps" if it's hit, which is a major minus towards the combat capability estimate of EU land armies.

I'm not sure why that would be per difinition the result of an internal ammo detonation, and not a direct hit with a high explosive round (which would probably also detonate the internal ammo, nevertheless).

Well, yeah I wasn't talking about pure ammo detonation, I meant the "ammo explodes when hit" bug that the Russian tanks got pretty infamous for.

And these tanks were supposedly destroyed by airstrikes. Lord knows why, maybe they were the ones captured by ISIS a couple of weeks ago?

[Wolfhunter107]

European mainstay tank is Leopard 2, and evidently it's just as dangerous to its crew as the Russian "death-traps" if it's hit, which is a major minus towards the combat capability estimate of EU land armies.

I feel that that's a questionable conclusion to draw from a single photograph.

[Antioch]

Spoiler: poor Leo (click to show/hide)

Apparently, finest German engineering can't keep the turret where it should be. Very typical ammo detonation. I thought only Russian tanks were bad enough for that to happen, but apparently not.

I thought leopards had blow out panels that direct most of the blast away from the tank's interior in case of an ammo detonation....

I thought so too, but, as evident by the photographs and some random discussion on the Internet, it doesn't actually have those. Abrams does, but Abrams is an American tank. European mainstay tank is Leopard 2, and evidently it's just as dangerous to its crew as the Russian "death-traps" if it's hit, which is a major minus towards the combat capability estimate of EU land armies.

I'm not sure why that would be per difinition the result of an internal ammo detonation, and not a direct hit with a high explosive round (which would probably also detonate the internal ammo, nevertheless).

Well, yeah I wasn't talking about pure ammo detonation, I meant the "ammo explodes when hit" bug that the Russian tanks got pretty infamous for.

And these tanks were supposedly destroyed by airstrikes. Lord knows why, maybe they were the ones captured by ISIS a couple of weeks ago?

Well I literally recall seeing and being told about those panels while sitting in a leopard 2 during the army open days.

Might be a difference between the many versions of the leopard 2.

[Sergarr]

Well I literally recall seeing and being told about those panels while sitting in a leopard 2 during the army open days.

Might be a difference between the many versions of the leopard 2.

European mainstay tank is Leopard 2, and evidently it's just as dangerous to its crew as the Russian "death-traps" if it's hit, which is a major minus towards the combat capability estimate of EU land armies.

I feel that that's a questionable conclusion to draw from a single photograph.

Well, I guess it is, kinda. It's probably just an early version Leo bug, but it could be relevant because the peripheral European countries, like Poland, are armed mostly with those "early versions", and coincidentally they're also the ones closest to the "potential adversary".

But it certainly downrates the durability of Turkish army in my eyes. Not that it really matters, they've got enough bodies to drown all local opposition in their blood if the Sultan wished so.

[Loud Whispers]

Massed infantry doesn't work in modern warfare, what is paramount in modern warfare is disrupting enemy communications against modern militaries
Unless you want saddam 2: electric boogaloo

[Sergarr]

In case you haven't noticed, Turkey's local opposition are composed mostly of bearded man riding glorious steeds pickups into battle, not really a "modern military" kind of opponent if you catch my drift.

[Loud Whispers]

Currently, however if Erdogan acted out too much, the likelihood of a modern power opposing him would increase

[smjjames]

Massed infantry doesn't work in modern warfare, what is paramount in modern warfare is disrupting enemy communications against modern militaries
Unless you want saddam 2: electric boogaloo

Yeah, that was largely gone by WWII, though WWI was the death knell for that kind of tactic.

[ggamer]

European mainstay tank is Leopard 2, and evidently it's just as dangerous to its crew as the Russian "death-traps" if it's hit, which is a major minus towards the combat capability estimate of EU land armies.

which is a major minus towards the combat capability estimate of EU land armies.

EU land armies.

hahahahahahahaaaahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

[Wolfhunter107]

He's pretty obviously referring to the armies of those EU nations that use Leo 2s. No need to be an ass about it.

[martinuzz]

hahahahahahahaaaahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

Poland Hussars stronk

[Sergarr]

I think I've found a reason why Turkish army has been sucking so much lately.

In the wake of the coup attempt, Erdogan has been tough in cracking down on suspected conspirators. He has fired close to 100,000 public servants while the governors of 47 districts and the deans of all Turkish universities have been forced to resign. Nearly 200 media organizations have also been forced to shut down. But no institution has been as hard hit by the purge as the military. One-third of all generals and admirals have been suspended from service and the air force has lost 265 of its around 400 fighter pilots. The repression has also been directed at Turks abroad. Erdogan has recalled at least 270 officers and military attachés at NATO bases, including those in Mons, Naples and Ramstein in Germany. NATO Supreme Commander Curtis Scaparrotti warns the dismissals have "degraded" the alliance's military capabilities.

The general staff is now having trouble refilling the massive number of posts left empty by the arrests. The government is currently using newspaper ads in an attempt to attract 25,000 new recruits. Many of the officers who are now sitting in jail controlled key parts of the military and it will take generations for the armed forces to recover from this loss of experience and knowledge, argues Gareth Jenkins, a Turkey expert at the Central Asia-Caucasus Institute. The shortage of air force personnel has become so acute that nine pilots are currently flying sorties in Syria who were placed in temporary detention over the summer as alleged members of the putsch. They aren't actually allowed to leave the country and they are required to report to the police before and after each mission.

The losses on the ground are "higher than they need to be" because the air force is no longer capable of providing sufficient support, says one fighter pilot dismissed from his position by the government.

tl;dr: Stalin-esque purges are doing a serious number on Turkey's military capabilities. Also they are literally using penal battalions ahaha what the fuck Erdogan