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[Sutremaine]

It seems much more likely that it's some sort of "armor being treated as weird clothing" thing or whatnot.

Armour and clothing are pretty much the same thing. It's just that most of the clothing bodywear has this set of tokens, and most of the armour bodywear has that set of tokens. The only exclusive difference between armour and clothing is that armour has to be assigned to a dwarf through the use of a squad uniform. (This has the side effect of armour being unownable.)

[Areyar]

I never noticed this degrading effect, except on unbutchered corpses.
and I think only when in open air.
weird.
but good news though for all those nails and named teeth and unbucherable severed limbs!

[GavJ]

The only exclusive difference between armour and clothing is that armour has to be assigned to a dwarf through the use of a squad uniform.

Uh, and that armor doesn't wear out.

Which might have been broken this release, is the point.

[RealFear]

The only exclusive difference between armour and clothing is that armour has to be assigned to a dwarf through the use of a squad uniform.

Uh, and that armor doesn't wear out.

Which might have been broken this release, is the point.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's been settled that this has to do with the fact that his armor stockpile was also his refuse pile.

[GavJ]

I suppose so. Has this refuse bug been reported somewhere, though? I've never heard of it.

The bug where things other than refuse decay in a stockpile that happens to include refuse IS reported already, here: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=874

I don't, however, see anything that mentions stuff also continuing to decay even when not in the stockpile anymore, as the OP is describing, which would be another bug on top of that, or an extension of it.

[Torrenal]

I don't, however, see anything that mentions stuff also continuing to decay even when not in the stockpile anymore, as the OP is describing, which would be another bug on top of that, or an extension of it.

Actually, it makes perfect sense:

You, a responsible caretaker, have noticed that your miliatary's armour is wearing out.. unbeknownst to you, because it was in a mis-configured stockpile.  You assume it's through use, so you tell them not to wear it except as actually required.

After every action, you have your dwarves put the armor back in storage, and then you check it for wear and tear.  And every time it has more wear.

Where exactly would you suppose that armor is being stored between uses...?

//Torrenal

[GavJ]

The OP doesn't clearly describe those details, Torrenal.

He said he put the armor on the ground until sieges, yes, but it to me it stands to reason that was in RESPONSE to his original observations, yes? Otherwise he wouldn't be talking about that as "something he has to do" due to the decay, if that's all he ever did to begin with.

Which implies it happening the first time on the dwarves' bodies.



I'm not positive about that, which is why I didn't post it as a bug myself. I'm asking if it does exist already, and if not, we need more information from the OP, or a test of it.

[BWhales034]

The OP doesn't clearly describe those details, Torrenal.

He said he put the armor on the ground until sieges, yes, but it to me it stands to reason that was in RESPONSE to his original observations, yes? Otherwise he wouldn't be talking about that as "something he has to do" due to the decay, if that's all he ever did to begin with.

Which implies it happening the first time on the dwarves' bodies.



I'm not positive about that, which is why I didn't post it as a bug myself. I'm asking if it does exist already, and if not, we need more information from the OP, or a test of it.

^^This. I haven't had a chance to test things again, only had time to make 1 fort and it got overrun before I got my smelting/forging operations up. When I first noticed the situation, I would forge armor (couple plates/greaves at a time), then assign them to the dwarf and I would leave the item with the dwarf (not taking on/off). When I started noticing (XXarmortypeXX) and "missing item" in the military equip screen I started having them just not wear the armor and I would stockpile it until attack. Also, and I'm just realizing this now, but it seemed like some armor pieces lasted way longer than others. So what I'm thinking is happening is this: I forge pieces of armor, some of it gets sent to my stockpile which has refuse (bones/skulls) enabled, but some of it hasn't made it to the stockpile yet (When I assigned the armor, it was generally at the tail end of the forging multiple pieces). So the armor which did make it to the stockpile the starts to degrade but the pieces that came fresh from the forge don't. It is definitely decaying on their bodies though, it wasn't an in-and-out of the stockpile thing at first.

[Loci]

When I first noticed the situation, I would forge armor (couple plates/greaves at a time), then assign them to the dwarf and I would leave the item with the dwarf (not taking on/off). When I started noticing (XXarmortypeXX) and "missing item" in the military equip screen I started having them just not wear the armor and I would stockpile it until attack. Also, and I'm just realizing this now, but it seemed like some armor pieces lasted way longer than others. So what I'm thinking is happening is this: I forge pieces of armor, some of it gets sent to my stockpile which has refuse (bones/skulls) enabled, but some of it hasn't made it to the stockpile yet (When I assigned the armor, it was generally at the tail end of the forging multiple pieces). So the armor which did make it to the stockpile the starts to degrade but the pieces that came fresh from the forge don't. It is definitely decaying on their bodies though, it wasn't an in-and-out of the stockpile thing at first.

The fact that you assigned it to your dwarves does not mean it was removed from the refuse pile and equipped in a timely manner (the green checkmark means "assigned", not "collected and equipped"). Even if the armor was equipped hot off the forge, if any of your military had the mining, woodcutting, or hunting labors active they would regularly drop their equipment to switch to their work "uniform", and off to the refuse pile it goes.

In several in-game years in 0.40 I have seen absolutely zero wear on any armor. It is possible that there is another bug lurking here, but I'm unconvinced that everything can't be explained by the rogue refuse pile.

[greycat]

I suppose so. Has this refuse bug been reported somewhere, though? I've never heard of it.

It is a feature, as stated by Toady One:

03/17/2012 Toady One Damaged clothing that gets thrown out in the refuse pile will rot away now.

[GavJ]

It is a feature, as stated by Toady One:

03/17/2012 Toady One Damaged clothing that gets thrown out in the refuse pile will rot away now.

1) Armor is not "damaged clothing" and should have no means by which to ever BECOME damaged, thus Toady's quote above should never apply to this situation.

In other words, if it was truly the case that only "damaged clothing" rotted in refuse piles, that would not explain why armor rots in refuse piles, because how did the armor get damaged in the first place to qualify as "damaged clothing"? Thus, this is still a bug, if Toady intended the above quoted behavior, because that's not exactly what's happening.

What seems to actually be happening is "ALL clothing that gets thrown in a refuse pile, damaged or not, will rot now"

2) I'm pretty sure furniture and other stuff rots in a stockpile with refuse included, which also seems like a bug and is not implied by the above quoted feature. And even if this behavior is intended, at best it's absolutely horrible in terms of intuitive UI. If he wants to give you an option to make anything rot if you want it to in a stockpile (which we don't know that he does?), it should be a toggle option when you select any stockpile, down by the options to "link to buildings" etc. That way it would not happen by accident or overlap weirdly with other things you might want to do, like simply storing refuse and other things in the same stockpile -- especially likely for new players to do early in their very first forts making one big common stockpile. Making new players' whole forts rot away unintuitively is not exactly a great feature to add to encourage more people to get hooked on the game.

3) None of this explains why armor might be rotting while worn, which the OP explicitly confirmed is happening. Implying that the refuse flag carries over to things not even in refuse anymore or any stockpile, which is clearly a bug even if you don't think the other things are bugs.

[Hamiltonz]

By chance was there a Forgotten Beast?  I'm thinking the armor is decaying from contact with a syndrome.

[GavJ]

By chance was there a Forgotten Beast?  I'm thinking the armor is decaying from contact with a syndrome.

How would a syndrome do that? I'm not aware of any syndrome tags or effects that would be able to make armor wear out. The only thing I can think of would be maybe changing the creature's fixed temperature (not even sure they can do that anyway), but that wouldn't damage metal armor, since metals don't have heat or cold damage.

[greycat]

It is a feature, as stated by Toady One:

03/17/2012 Toady One Damaged clothing that gets thrown out in the refuse pile will rot away now.

1) Armor is not "damaged clothing" and should have no means by which to ever BECOME damaged, thus Toady's quote above should never apply to this situation.

If you feel this strongly about it, you can file a bug report.  Ultimately, that's the only way to be sure whether Toady agrees with you.

[GavJ]

There is a bug report already for that. Was asking about the second part (it rotting while being worn), which I forgot to mention: BWhales, since you confirmed that, you should post a report with your actual savegame and stuff on the bugtracker.

Savegames: http://dffd.wimbli.com/
Bug tracker: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view_all_bug_page.php