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Author Topic: BYOR 13 - Game Over: Thirteen  (Read 258478 times)

Toaster

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #345 on: August 12, 2014, 11:30:31 am »

Flabort:
I don't see how you don't see it.
He changed his mind, after being corrected.
My case was that he wouldn't change his mind.
Therefor, he broke my case.
Therefor, I have none.
I still suspect him on a gut level, so yes, scum don't stop being scum, but I have NO WAY OF PROVING THAT HE IS (Also known as a "CASE").

If someone does something because you prod them into doing it, it doesn't change that they weren't doing it in the first place.


Scripten:
I keep wanting to vote Varee, but I'm remembering just how badly the town hurt in the CYOM that's going on now. A Varee lynch seems easy, but is that what we want? Seems to me that both Varee and 4maskwolf may end up being a liability to the town even if they are aligned with it, just from the gameplay I've seen in the thread so far.

Ongoing games are ongoing, but in any case you should focus on the current game.  Meta observations are only worth so much.


NQT:
Toaster - even fewer posts, never voted

I'm too cool for random voting.

In all seriousness, lunch next, then rereading until I find some scum.  Gut's telling me to reread Flabort first, for the record.


Varee:  Since you're claiming and all, is this a one-shot power upgrade or something?  Shouldn't you be wary of redirection for something like that?
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

flabort

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #346 on: August 12, 2014, 11:38:39 am »

Well, I'd like to know who you (Varee) end up targeting, because I'm curious about the effects of this "house". I'm also willing to give whoever you target some aid, assuming we're both alive at the end of the night, just in case your ability is actually a kill and not a buff like you claim.

PPE: Interesting, Nerjin. Your analysis of me seems mostly to be a mildly strong case; wrong, but a good case.
However, early on, when I was "relying on saying very little", and where there was "much talk of camping", I have to point out that preparation for that camping was eating up most of my time. Even though in the end, I didn't go, I still had a lot of work to do helping everyone else get ready.

PPE2: Toaster, eh? OK, that's a weird answer. If you don't prod someone into doing something, then they haven't done it. So if you do prod them into doing something, then it's your fault that they did it, right? I don't quite understand how you came to your conclusion.
Also, yeah, I guess he should be wary of redirections, but so should anyone.
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Varee

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #347 on: August 12, 2014, 11:42:35 am »

since people seem to be all interested in my house building I will clarify.


It something i NEED to do every night. I do it liek on my spare time or something(I dont know how I find tiem to build a house every night but i guess it "WE can build it!" right?). Since this urge need to be fulfill I got two choice. one i just build it on the street and it finder keeper and i got no clue who is going to claim it. I might even claim it in the morning if noonelse does. Second is I sneak into someone backyard and pop a shack down. The house in the end of it self doesnt do a thing. It is more the owner of the house that give it the power. It might be an outhouse or garden storage shack but it can also be cultist hideout or personal torture chamber. I just got to build it ok?


And i start to understand why Nerjin to doing what he is doing :P


Also people need to clam down and take the clue. Sarcasm is dense in some of my posts.


Ninja-ed :P so you want to help me build house? who do you think need a new resident?
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flabort

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #348 on: August 12, 2014, 11:56:45 am »

Yeah, I want to help out. Help confirm whether you are town or not.
Oh, and FYI, don't build me specifically a house, it won't do anything.
Who do I think needs a new house?

I'm partial to saying Tiruin, but with the Miller claim, we can't know for sure if that's a good idea.
So perhaps Toaster would be an excellent candidate. Since nobody's confirmed anyways, we could go with the reputedly hardest person to confirm.
I believe that the way your power and mine might interact will confirm all three of us as one alignment or the other; you, me, our target.
That all depends on what toaster says about that plan, though. If he rejects it, due to not trusting either of us or his auto possibly interacting with either power, we can target someone else.
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Shakerag

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #349 on: August 12, 2014, 12:02:56 pm »

flabort:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


NQT:
Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?
You're missing a vote on me if you want the full chainsaw experience, NQT.  Regardless of how much he's voting and posting, if he looks scummy then he looks scummy.  Isn't it the point for scum to be active and try to look like scumhunting town anyway?  I'm not going to pull the "too-townie" card, but I will say that activity and voting does not necessarily make someone town. 

Do you not see anything of note in flabort's replies?  Are you content to just try and poke at the safe targetslurkers?

Toaster - even fewer posts, never voted
Technically, didn't Toaster claim medical reasons?


Nerjin:
I think my second pick might be NQT.  He's defending flabort on merits of activity, and not "Shakerag your case is bullshit and this is why".


Varee:
As others have mentioned, it's best not to advertise you have some kind of upgrade power openly.  If the scumteam has a redirect, then they could end up with the benefit.

TolyK

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #350 on: August 12, 2014, 12:04:42 pm »

Wait, you mean we have neighbors in this game? You obviously didn't say that, but by flavor I guess we do.
Could also be a mason or cult thing.

We could have two mafias in this large of a setup.

Saying things that come to mind, by the way, turns out to help broaden thinking patterns.
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My Mafia Stats
just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
At this point?  TolyK.

Silthuri

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #351 on: August 12, 2014, 01:54:49 pm »

*sigh* So much fail on my part... sorry everyone. I don't know were all of my energy is going these days...


Imp: Flabort has always liked to rolefish. It's kind of his thing. I'll take a bit more rolefishing from him than I will everyone else because I know this. That isn't to say I'll completely ignore it. If he keeps it up, I'll definitely get after him for it. It's almost like how I'll forgive unnecessary outbursts from Nerjin more than others because I know how he reacts when things really push his buttons.


flabort: I plan to use my role wisely and not squander it. I don't plan to be aggressive with my role, as I'm not a very aggressive player normally. Hopefully this gives you the answers you were going for.


Now: Reads
Note: if I don't say anything about someone, my read is null.

4mask: His first vote was on Scripten for the question regarding creepy roles. He never has been terribly... I don't want to say useful, but he's more laid back in the RVS stage and D1. I'm one to talk because I'm not very useful in RVS myself. I don't understand why people are getting after him for "wasting everyone's time" with his one unnecessarily long quote that I actually found amusing. Nerjin did react quite hostilely to this and I don't blame 4mask for reacting how he did. All in all, I have a fairly neutral read on 4mask.

Cheeetar: I find him the most scummy for all of his crap during the miller debate. All of this crap about the miller distracting town by claiming right off... No. Just no. That's going to prevent any inspection roles from wasting their action on someone who will definitely come up scum. And then all of this talk about a miller predicting when they've been inspected and claiming before the inspector claims... bull. Claiming miller after an inspector has claimed and outed you as scum is the worst possible course of action. No one will believe you and you will die. I think he's scum and trying to convince everyone that when/if he's inspected and comes up scum, people will believe him when he starts blurting miller.

flabort: Potato. It seems like everyone's attacking him for his scumbuddy statement unless I missed something. Nothing he's done has really stood out to me. Neutral.

Imp: I'm leaning town. She's fairly active, quick to question people, but has yet to use her vote.

Nerjin:Speaking in tongues of the president. I'm starting to wonder if he's Lincoln, with his repeated use of "Evil only triumphs when good men do nothing." (That was Lincoln, right?) Went off on 4mask, which was a bit much, but that doesn't really scream scum to me. Like I said, I know how Nerjin reacts to things that bug him. Neutral read.

NQT: Seemed overly nosy about Tirun's role, but I understand why he did it. His curiosity seems to have been sated and has moved on to other things. Neutral.

Scripten: Jumped on Tiruin for miller claim as well; claimed he has a very creepy role. Not sure what to think about this one. Neutral.

Tiruin: Claimed miller in her first post. She was then forced to defend herself from those saying it made her scummy. I believe that she was right in claiming before it became an issue and she was investigated. I'm willing to believe that she's actually a miller unless something happens to prove otherwise.
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Imp

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #352 on: August 12, 2014, 03:09:12 pm »

flabort:
Imp Do you think it's possible that some player's behaviors could be explained by them having a day-use power? If so, which players?

I haven't seen anything to rule out someone having a day-use power, that's hard to rule out.  You asked about 'possible' and 'having a day-use power' - to that I'd say anyone could have a day-use power - but you linked having one to 'behaviors could be explained by them having it'.  To that I'm going to say no.  I don't see anyone acting as if their having a day-use power explained their behavior.  I can't even imagine behavior that would be a tell-tale for having a day-use power, then again I don't recall ever seeing one used.

Is this a random question?

If you can imagine behavior that would be a tell-tale for having a day-use power, would you describe an example please?


I'd rather give more time for Scripten to examine TolyK if Scripten chooses to chase this further without this possibly clouding reactions, if Scripten was just being indirect about beginning to explore it, but day end nears and I don't know if work will allow me much time to post again before day is over.  I wrote it yesterday, after reading the post I quote that I say blew my mind, and haven't changed it since.
« Reply #296 on: Today at 11:32:39 am »
flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?
TolyK: You seem relatively happy to jump on the Flabort wagon. What makes Flabort's role talk more dangerous to the town or more scummy than everyone else's?
« Reply #316 on: Today at 03:55:22 pm »
There was a flabort wagon? When I voted?
As far as I remember, when I voted flabort with a random vote people were taking about millers...

TolyK, your answer just blew my mind.

That I can see, you've voted once this entire game.  4.5 hours before being asked about your vote.  Yours was the second vote on flabort, and there's 4 votes now.

I don't see a flabort wagon, though one may have begun; momentum can happen.  notquitethere seems concerned about a possible flabort wagon too.

Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?

Totally legit question, I want to see the answers too of course.  Just... 4 out of 17 votes.  We're about a 24 hours from day end when NQT posted that, but still...

But what blows my mind about your answer TolyK, is you talk about 'As far as I remember, when I voted flabort' as if it was in the dim, misty past or something - it was 4.5 hours before you answered the question about it.

You say your vote on flabort is random (though you gave something of a reason with the vote), and you say you remember placing the vote while people were talking about millers - Millers have not been much of a discussion since Friday.  Tiruin (claimed miller) has 0 votes now, and Cheeetar (proposed miller lynch best D1 choice at the time) has 0 votes now too.  The current attempt to discuss millers seems to be mostly questions from people who ask why voters changed their votes without explaining.

I don't like how you answered Scripten's question about your vote, TolyK, and I'd like you to explain why you chose to answer with redirection as if your vote was some old random RVS thing from near the start of the thread, why you linked your vote to the Miller discussion that mostly stopped over a day before you voted, and why you didn't directly answer the question asked at all.


Silthuri:
Imp: has yet to use her vote.

I have voted.

I'm no webadict, but a few people have asked for a vote count/mentioned they were not good at tracking even their own votes/thought someone hadn't voted who had, so here's what the votecount looks like to me right now.  This is based on webadict's previous votecount, then I visually went through the posts since, it -could- contain errors but does not to my knowledge.

Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - Persus13, Nerjin,
Cheeetar - Silthuri,
flabort - Jack A T, TolyK, Shakerag, Cheeetar,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Jiokuy -
Nerjin - 4maskwolf,
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Shakerag - flabort,
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK - Scripten,
Varee - IronyOwl, Imp, notquitethere,

Not Voting - Jiokuy, Toaster, Varee, Tiruin,
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If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Jack A T

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #353 on: August 12, 2014, 03:11:44 pm »

Extend.  Day ends in a few hours and we're hitting a major point of discussion.

Webadict: I think Jiokuy may need a replacement.

My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.
So, if you suspect him, and have for some time, and felt you didn't have enough evidence, why weren't you trying to gather more evidence and improve your read?  You stopped interacting with him in the middle of the miller mess.
Flabort: Answer this.
He vanishes for over a hundred posts, he tries to correct me on the proper use of PFP (What does it matter what it stands for, it all means the same thing), accuses Imp of gaining advantage from being targeted, accuses Jack of rolefishing (Does Jack ever rolefish? I didn't think he'd be the type), and votes Persus.
Wow.  You're spinning Shakerag being away between posts for less than (post #111: 4:52 PM Aug. 7) 24 hours (Post #236: 2:27 PM Aug. 8) to look as bad as it can, by saying he "vanishe[d]" and emphasizing the high activity of other players in the thread during that reasonable absence.  Then you take a shot at him for daring to accuse me of rolefishing, ignoring the fact that said accusation was correct.  It was highly limited rolefishing, and I see it as justified by Shakerag's history of submissions meant to screw everyone over and/or screw the game up, but it was rolefishing.

Is there a reason you're spinning a non-issue to look as bad as possible and omitting an inconvenient fact that would interfere with your case?
When next he's seen
How dare Shakerag not be a weekend player!?!

I still suspect him [Cheeetar] on a gut level, so yes, scum don't stop being scum, but I have NO WAY OF PROVING THAT HE IS (Also known as a "CASE").
And?  Again, why haven't you been trying to improve your read/get evidence?  Why go beyond abandoning a flawed-looking case and outright abandon your suspect?  Why leave him so completely that you even forgot about your vote?  Why make babbling about potatoes and camping a higher-priority action than gaining information on your suspect?

TolyK: I find your contribution to the flabort wagon troubling.  You voted for flabort for his apparent effort to give away his role name.  How is this scummy?

Later, you, when asked to explain your "shooting from the hip" targets (which did not include flabort), came out with this:
@jack I hipfire horribly, so those are more or less random picks. They're the names that came up after more or less re-skimming though the material.

Flabort, who I've already voted, had since taken the front scene.
...but what do you think?  Why do you think he is worth your vote?

Since that post, you've taken a few short jabs at flabort, but have never really brought together a case against him.  You're sort of sitting back on the bandwagon.

Most of my case on Flabort:
flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?
Because it's fun.
This is obviously not a satisfactory answer, since you typically play to win as well, and this could be detrimental to that fact.
...And?  What makes this scummy?

Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?
NQT (Flabort should read this too): He's definitely posting, yes.  It is true that he is now engaged with the game, as any reasonable player under heavy fire would be.  Up until my vote for him (at which point he had 19 posts), his contributions had been a first post set of RVS questions, a little bit of Cheeetar engagement (which he abandoned quickly), and a very short Jester accusation against 4mask.  While flabort says he suspected Cheeetar even after the miller stuff, flabort had completely stopped interacting with Cheeetar after this post (the sixth of flabort's posts).  (Heck, even now, he does nothing to improve his Cheeetar read)  Most of flabort's posts had consisted of him babbling about potatoes and camping, and his one vote at that point was one he didn't really care about.  Low-engagement play, without even awareness of where his vote was, and his high post count was largely due to him flooding the thread with potatoes.

My vote was enough, at least, to get him to take some sort of action.  Unfortunately, that action was to abandon voting for his suspect and return to RVS, complete with an RVS vote.  And babble about potatoes.  His later Varee vote was a quick jump on a wagon (one already with Irony and Imp on it), largely using a chunk of Imp's reasons.

His current vote?  This beautiful bit of panicking under fire.  He's accusing Shakerag of trying to make him look scummy by asking the wrong questions.  His detailed reasons given later are a post-by-post analysis in which he tries desperately to turn any gap between posts, among other things, into evidence of scumhood.  As Nerjin correctly points out, his case has significant gaps in it as well.

Flabort, for most of the game, was doing his best Scum SaintDraze imitation: flooding the thread with posts, but contributing little.  Quantity far over quality.  He sat back, rambling about potatoes and answering questions, but not scumhunting.  He was so unengaged with the game that he lost track of where his vote was and avoided trying to investigate his main suspect.  He has only become engaged with the game under fire, and his votes are rather poor.

But whatever you do, do NOT give it to Tiruin. I love her like a student. She is my heir so to speak. However, her loyalty to America itself is in question. A 'miller' as it is called should never be given that sort of power.
Nerjin: Please explain.
Right now, I would like hear EVERYONE'S number one suspect aside from the person you are voting and why. Just to see who is who in this situation.
TolyK, for his weak participation in the Flabortwagon (see above).  I do also find Silthuri's low activity off-putting (thanks, NQT, for reminding me of her), but not as much as I find TolyK's actions off-putting.

Silthuri: Do you think that Cheeetar, after losing in the miller debate, has a significant chance of success if he claims miller post-investigation?

Shakerag: You have stated that you suspect NQT for his behaviour with regard to flabort.  What do you think a town NQT would do differently?
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Quote from: Pandarsenic, BYOR 6.3 deadchat
FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

Silthuri

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #354 on: August 12, 2014, 03:19:43 pm »

Extend

Imp: Sorry I missed that... it wasn't a big factor in my read on you regardless.

Jack:  Cheeetar would have virtually no chance of success after his failings.  I felt that that might have been part of the plan early on when he was trying to support it. But I think that's just getting into WIFOM.

PFP
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Silthuri

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #355 on: August 12, 2014, 03:28:03 pm »

EBWOP

I know my lack of participation has been an issue. Now that I'm fairly caught up, keeping up shouldn't be too terribly hard. Expect more activity from now on.
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Cheeetar

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #356 on: August 12, 2014, 03:29:31 pm »

I have to leave for Uni in like 30 minutes and I have decided to delay getting ready and all sorts of important things because I wanted to post in the mafia thread. You are all to blame for my academic failures and later homelessness.

Spoiler: NQT (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Nerjin (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Silthuri (click to show/hide)
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I've played some mafia.

Most of the time when someone is described as politically correct they are simply correct.

Nerjin

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #357 on: August 12, 2014, 03:33:13 pm »

Excuse me, sweet America, if I may have your attention for but a moment, I would like say something.

But whatever you do, do NOT give it to Tiruin. I love her like a student. She is my heir so to speak. However, her loyalty to America itself is in question. A 'miller' as it is called should never be given that sort of power.
Nerjin: Please explain.

The reason I said this was that Bob the Builder [or Varee] made it seem like his buildings would be beneficial to the recipient. Now as I said: I love Tiruin. She is my favorite student. However, her Miller claim may be false. It's unlikely, yes, given how she's handled it. BUT I would not wager against her actually being scum. It's more of a small doubt than a true conviction. However, I believe, in this case, we should be better safe than sorry.

That's all for now America. Stay safe.
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flabort

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #358 on: August 12, 2014, 03:39:24 pm »

Fine, Jack, if you're right about me being scum, then what does that say about Cheeetar?
First I try to bus him and then I try to distance myself is how I would see it from your flawed perspective.

Again, early game lack of participation was out of my hands. I was distracted by the whole camping issue, I had no time to knuckle down and focus. You'll also notice my activity was down from earlier in the CYOM of NQT's during this period, I think. I was still active, but I was talking more about queued actions and stuff.

Quote
How dare Shakerag not be a weekend player!?!
OK, so shakerag's absences are excusable. But by that logic, no-body being absent matters. Jiokuy being absent doesn't matter. And if low activity doesn't matter, high activity doesn't matter. And by that logic, my low activity followed by high activity doesn't matter. I still get to think that shakerag's active lurking if you think that that matters.

Quote
Is there a reason you're spinning a non-issue to look as bad as possible and omitting an inconvenient fact that would interfere with your case?
Does everything in that post have to be an issue? I was going over everything he's done. Not everything he's done is bad. But he has done bad things, and is pinging "scum" like crazy to me.

Quote
And?  Again, why haven't you been trying to improve your read/get evidence?  Why go beyond abandoning a flawed-looking case and outright abandon your suspect?  Why leave him so completely that you even forgot about your vote?  Why make babbling about potatoes and camping a higher-priority action than gaining information on your suspect?
Because he's not my prime suspect. Because what can I do to improve my read or get evidence without being accused of something else now? You're all tunnel visioning and WANT to believe I'm scum. Babbling about camping and forgetting about my vote because I had no time because of the stress of preparing for camping.

And now I'm stressed because of other IRL issued. I idolized that guy, OK?  :'(

Quote
His current vote?  This beautiful bit of panicking under fire.
That's a fire? That's panicking? I was as cool as a cucumber for that post.
No, a fire is what you're setting now.

But I don't care. You're wasting your vote.

Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.
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Imp

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 1: Baked Cake Taken!
« Reply #359 on: August 12, 2014, 03:46:44 pm »

Extend.
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For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.
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