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[TolyK]

That is not the vibe I meant to give off

Of course you didn't mean to, because you are trying to look town. Even though you're not.

[Scripten]

It looks like this is going to be a BYO-OMGUS game. -_-

TolyK: You seem relatively happy to jump on the Flabort wagon. What makes Flabort's role talk more dangerous to the town or more scummy than everyone else's?

[TolyK]

There was a flabort wagon? When I voted?
As far as I remember, when I voted flabort with a random vote people were taking about millers...

[Imp]

Varee

So Imp what do you really want me to do ?

Do what you (hopefully) want to do, chase your Wincon.  Right now you're chasing 'don't target me' and 'I want to fit in'.

So it is bad to not vote people, not trying to ask question? It doesnt mean I dont care it is just that i dont know what to ask you guys. i dont think am the only one without any specific target yet.

Two different concepts mixed here.  No, it is not bad to not vote, and it is not bad to lack a specific target.  We all start the game in an unvoted condition, and only the executioners have a specific target from the start.

However, yes it usually is bad not to ask questions.  Beyond that, it -is- bad to fail and engage.  How the heck do you intend to -gain- any targets without engaging?

How do you intend to find something to discuss and decided if who you talk with is suspicious if you don't engage and interact?

Scum don't have the same need to engage and would often rather not do so.

Just because I complain about a lot of thing to read doesnt mean I wont read it.

"doesnt mean I wont read it" (that implies future tense, you have not read most of the thread yet but will) or "doesnt mean I haven't read it" (which implies past tense, that you already have read the thread)?

ask people more random question? or dig up more discussion about miller claim ?

Hrm.  True or false: There is nothing going on in this thread that you are aware of other than the miller claim (and presumably now my challenge to you), so you have only two options, you can poke at the miller claim or you can ask people 'more' random questions.

I have to put more in '' because... you actually haven't asked random questions, unless that's what you call these to me.  Sure, you can skip the random questions step, I've seen it done before and it's actually a bit late to start now (but if that's what you feel helps your wincon best, do what you need to do).

But you're also claiming, in your reaction to my challenge, that there's nothing going on to react to or discuss except that miller claim.  And before that you claimed you had no suspicions.

Scum don't have the same motivation to read the thread that many other roles do.  There's precious little puzzle for them in that thread other than picking who to use what powers on when.

flabort

Yeah, I tend to think I've voted at the start when I haven't, and tend to forget who I've voted for. Which is why I pay close attention to when vote-counts are posted, usually.

Ooh, so if there's an error in the vote counts, you usually won't be able to help catch it.  Do you track votes on yourself with more attention than you track how you use your own vote?

My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.

I'm confused by your stance on your 'case' on Cheeetar.  I'll explain my thinking, and ask you to discuss where yours differs from mine, please.  Because I can't get my head to the conclusion that you say you do - that you had a case, and now you don't.

Someone is Scum or they are not (conversions aside).  They are Scum or not regardless of what they misinterpret and no matter if they are dense or clever.  How can you 'have a case' that someone is Scummy because of what they say, but later you say 'I don't have a case' because they learn something new or change their mind?  Scum don't stop being Scum because they change their mind.

Nope, not that potato. Though you're getting closer. I did grab my role from a wiki.
I'm sad that you don't enjoy puntatos, but they are my own version of RP.

I'm getting closer?  That was my first and only offering.  You had to make repeated posts about your creepiness and potatoness to even get me to spend the single minute it took to find that.  I'm not that interested in why you are a potato or creepy.  But you sure are, it's been a major theme in your posts from game start.  I do appreciate that -you- have been adding more scumhunting and follow up to your RP posts though.  I'm as willing to see you RP as you choose as I am to follow Nerjin's and everyone elses - but if I can't spot the strategies and your efforts towards a wincon (or if it looks like the wrong wincon) I will be discussing that lack.  That lack -had- existed, but you've greatly improved that.

When I start seeing accusations that fit together, that make sense, I'll be out of the RVS phase. Because if no-one agrees on anything, then the town is still divided. Once members start to grow up (out of the ground) and agree with each other, we'll start seeing some progress. One small group working together will probably be scum, one large group working together is to the benefit of the town. With so few accusations that work together, I'm only seeing scattered signs of scum everywhere.

In my (limited) experience, Town usually stays divided, because for the most part most of them don't have any idea who else is Town.  Why would Scum want to visibly form a small group that works together and is composed only of Scum?  I don't think I've ever seen that.  Scum often spread out and stick their fingers into whatever they see fitting, and often different members work different directions to avoid any visible connections.  There's nothing to stop one, or even all of the Scum from joining that larger group either, even if the target is a Scum member but especially if it isn't.

Ever heard of bandwagon?

Discuss these ideas, yours and mine, further please.

Jack A T

Imp: I must have accidentally skipped over him on the list.
A question to you: Have you read my recent BYOR?  It may be of use to see how Varee played there.

I have not.  I'll start chewing on it tonight, time permitting, thanks for the suggestion.

[flabort]

-snip-

Heehee. Seems I'm doing nothing right today
As previously mentioned, I kind of tend to forget what I'm doing with my votes.
Let's see if I can recall why I did those votes... If I remember right, neither my vote on Varee or my vote on Imp was very serious. They didn't "Gain much traction" because they had very little to begin with. Yes, I'm aware that I FoS'd 4mask in the same posts, which makes my Varee and Imp votes pretty serious; however, did you even see what I was voting Imp over? A very RVS question about Nerjin's roleplay. Did you see what I was voting Varee over? About not even trying to vote for vote's sake. Which is pretty much admitting that I was voting him to have my vote in use.
So why didn't I vote 4mask instead? Because unlike Varee, I actually knew that someone else had already voted him. I had no idea that Varee was already being voted by Imp, for the same reasons that I forget who I'm voting for.

My vote for Shakerag is after a lengthy discussion over WIFOM, more than a bit emotional, and yes, while it may be a form of OMGUS, I also actually suspect him of building questions to which there is no right answer in order to cause a mislynch. I've accused Tiruin of that before, in previous games, and I feel very justified in voting Shakerag for it now.

flabort

Yeah, I tend to think I've voted at the start when I haven't, and tend to forget who I've voted for. Which is why I pay close attention to when vote-counts are posted, usually.

Ooh, so if there's an error in the vote counts, you usually won't be able to help catch it.  Do you track votes on yourself with more attention than you track how you use your own vote?

My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.

I'm confused by your stance on your 'case' on Cheeetar.  I'll explain my thinking, and ask you to discuss where yours differs from mine, please.  Because I can't get my head to the conclusion that you say you do - that you had a case, and now you don't.

Someone is Scum or they are not (conversions aside).  They are Scum or not regardless of what they misinterpret and no matter if they are dense or clever.  How can you 'have a case' that someone is Scummy because of what they say, but later you say 'I don't have a case' because they learn something new or change their mind?  Scum don't stop being Scum because they change their mind.

I don't see how you don't see it.
He changed his mind, after being corrected.
My case was that he wouldn't change his mind.
Therefor, he broke my case.
Therefor, I have none.
I still suspect him on a gut level, so yes, scum don't stop being scum, but I have NO WAY OF PROVING THAT HE IS (Also known as a "CASE").

Nope, not that potato. Though you're getting closer. I did grab my role from a wiki.
I'm sad that you don't enjoy puntatos, but they are my own version of RP.

I'm getting closer?  That was my first and only offering.  You had to make repeated posts about your creepiness and potatoness to even get me to spend the single minute it took to find that.  I'm not that interested in why you are a potato or creepy.  But you sure are, it's been a major theme in your posts from game start.  I do appreciate that -you- have been adding more scumhunting and follow up to your RP posts though.  I'm as willing to see you RP as you choose as I am to follow Nerjin's and everyone elses - but if I can't spot the strategies and your efforts towards a wincon (or if it looks like the wrong wincon) I will be discussing that lack.  That lack -had- existed, but you've greatly improved that.

You as in the whole group of people, I can't keep track of who guessed what (without my sheet, which I've been reworking and still isn't functional).
And thank you for the small vote of confidence.

When I start seeing accusations that fit together, that make sense, I'll be out of the RVS phase. Because if no-one agrees on anything, then the town is still divided. Once members start to grow up (out of the ground) and agree with each other, we'll start seeing some progress. One small group working together will probably be scum, one large group working together is to the benefit of the town. With so few accusations that work together, I'm only seeing scattered signs of scum everywhere.

In my (limited) experience, Town usually stays divided, because for the most part most of them don't have any idea who else is Town.  Why would Scum want to visibly form a small group that works together and is composed only of Scum?  I don't think I've ever seen that.  Scum often spread out and stick their fingers into whatever they see fitting, and often different members work different directions to avoid any visible connections.  There's nothing to stop one, or even all of the Scum from joining that larger group either, even if the target is a Scum member but especially if it isn't.

Ever heard of bandwagon?

Aye. Ever play on Giant in the Playground Games? The vanilla townie is nicknamed "sheep". Because that's how the game is played there, the fastest player to get a bandwagon to form on someone wins. None of this question stuff or conversations, it's all jokes and rewritten song lyrics (Somebody rewrote Sexy and I Know It to fit me and my avatar once). I know what a Bandwagon is. And usually the second or third player(s) to vote the wagon'd player is scum.

I acknowledge that scum would not want to be seen working together, but they still wind up working together, and if you take the accusations coming from scum players, they will fit together and mesh; they will form a small group of accusations that work together even if the scum players are trying to target different players. There won't be any connections on the surface, but if you analyze who accuses who of what and lump those accusations together, you will probably find small celles of scum-accusations.

[TolyK]

Or scum could, you know, just push cases on different people.

Also, you're being very defensive instead of scum hunting. Granted, you're being hunted yourself, but that doesn't mean that you should stop trying to find who'd scummy. If you're lynched anyways, your points against others could help in further hunting.


Pfp

[TolyK]

Thus that would be playing to your claimed objective, would it not?
Because not scum hunting, in at least some way, is definite anti-town behavior.

There is one way you could relieve my suspicion of you a bit as a response to this post, I'll let you figure that out by yourself.

This is to Flabort by the way. Sorry for double post.

[flabort]

Fine. Analysis of Shakerag:
He opens to me with a question about being asked, pre-game, about Arsonist. Gets mad about Tiruin's formatting.
He says that the night game consists of just sending in an action or not; clearly someone who'd pretty lazy about their night game. Very little thought at all as to who to target, like they don't care; that's pretty scummy. He gets on Persus's case for getting on scripten's case (protective of scripten, or protecting persus from bandwagoning?).
He vanishes for over a hundred posts, he tries to correct me on the proper use of PFP (What does it matter what it stands for, it all means the same thing), accuses Imp of gaining advantage from being targeted, accuses Jack of rolefishing (Does Jack ever rolefish? I didn't think he'd be the type), and votes Persus.
When I get him to post a list of his impressions of players, it seems somewhat emotional. It looks like he isn't willing to put much work into looking like he's trying, and he covers it up with he was "the worst person" to ask. Oh, and he crabs about Tiruin, me, and 4mask.
When next he's seen, he makes a level headed answer to only one question, and unvotes Persus. Mysteriously.
It's only now when typing this that I see the coincidence that he had an angry post (List of player impressions), and I asked him about angry posts. This may be why his next action is to accuse me of trying to ask him how to drive a mis-lynch.
He then asks THE QUESTION. The one that cannot be answered correctly, the one with no right answer. This is HIS attempt to drive a mis-lynch. He also votes for me.
He somehow argues that my logic means nothing. What, does he expect scumbuddies to be helpful in thread? Obviously I'm asking him because I have no form of quicktopic, which is where I would have asked the question IF I had scumbuddies. He also claims he found a better place for his vote than Persus. But he only voted me and found that place to vote AFTER he unvoted persus.
That's not many posts yet. 97, 111, 236, 243, 298, 300, 302, 311, and that's it. 8 posts in total.
And he's looking very scum already to me.

So yeah, I'd say that I'm justified in voting him.

Also, since it was conversed about by scripten and TolyK, let's look at the votes on me.
First is 4mask, post 215; He removes his vote later.
Jack A T, post 276: The start of the Wagon.
TolyK, post 296
Shakerag, post 300; magic #3 spot. What did I say about scum being second or third on a wagon?
Cheetar, post pi.

For these reasons, Shakerag is scum.

[Shakerag]

For what it's worth, flabort, what mattered wasn't -what- you answered my questions with but -how- you answered them. 

I'll address the rest tomorrow. 

[notquitethere]

Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?

Varee

I dont see anything "suspicious" as of yet. the miller debate is informative but dosent really tell much. Will just have to wait and see i guess

I don't think we'll have the luxury of waiting and seeing. Of all the players that have yet to vote, you've posted the least. That's suspicious in the Book of NQT. Poor engagement and inability to press cases and form genuine suspicions is a genuine scum tell. You're cannier than you pretend to be, you should know this. Make a case.

[Scripten]

I keep wanting to vote Varee, but I'm remembering just how badly the town hurt in the CYOM that's going on now. A Varee lynch seems easy, but is that what we want? Seems to me that both Varee and 4maskwolf may end up being a liability to the town even if they are aligned with it, just from the gameplay I've seen in the thread so far.

That said, TolyK, I wasn't only talking about your vote. You've been sheeping pretty hard these last two pages. Maybe it's just how fast and intense this game is feeling. Could you summarize your feelings on Flabort and those who are voting him alongside you?

[Varee]

O.O okie my english bad,i bad person not speak english perfect.

Yeah yeah whatever. It seem like this place have a certain standard of how mafia should be play. I woild love for a no lynch day one. For all thoses who are on my trail , am aware how scummy you might make that but for all you can tell there is LITERALLY no information to base a decision on. If you want to call all the half lie and claim information then by all mean go ahead. Let me add something ro your list of "information" then.

So who look like they need power? Come come we got everything you want, you just say so and i can build it! So wgo want ti be empower who our lucky person. I say our devoted president seem to be a good guy so should we give him a gift? Or sjould ee help our poor miller who work hard to gain our trust. Just name it and all i can say is "We can build it !"

[Nerjin]

Hello America. Let's have a talk.

O.O okie my english bad,i bad person not speak english perfect.

That's perfectly fine. So long as you are American, we all accept you. If you were, on the other hand, to have communist leanings. THAT would be an issue. But onwards to what you said:

I woild love for a no lynch day one. For all thoses who are on my trail , am aware how scummy you might make that but for all you can tell there is LITERALLY no information to base a decision on. If you want to call all the half lie and claim information then by all mean go ahead. Let me add something ro your list of "information" then.

No. A no lynch on day one does NOTHING but help the communists. The Day 1 lynch shows us who thought who was scum. Who had a weak case AND it verifies someone's role, or more importantly, their alignment. A no lynch on the other hand shows us... That the communists kill. The lynch gives so much more information. A no-lynch shoud, in my humble opinion, be used only if it is a Mislynch and lose situation. A lylo is prefereable to a MYLO. In this one man's honest opinion.

So who look like they need power?

Oh, I'm sorry. But what?

Come come we got everything you want, you just say so and i can build it!

What are you talking about? Are you roleclaiming?

So wgo want ti be empower who our lucky person. I say our devoted president seem to be a good guy so should we give him a gift? Or sjould ee help our poor miller who work hard to gain our trust. Just name it and all i can say is "We can build it !"

Are you Bob the Builder perhaps? No, obviously you have a kingmaker role. Which is strange all things considered. I don't care who you give it to. I am already the President. I need no more power than that. However, if the people were willing to grant me emergency power I would not decline. But whatever you do, do NOT give it to Tiruin. I love her like a student. She is my heir so to speak. However, her loyalty to America itself is in question. A 'miller' as it is called should never be given that sort of power.

Right now, I would like hear EVERYONE'S number one suspect aside from the person you are voting and why. Just to see who is who in this situation.

My secondary pick for Communist sympathizer would probably be Flabort. Mainly due to rather weak case against Shakerag. I am, I must say, using a Day Two perspective on this however. As I do not plan on moving my vote, until someone does something incredibly Communist seeming.

I'm afraid, Dear America, that this all for now. Now now. Don't cry. Your President will always be watching you. Making sure you have the utmost that America has to offer. Farewell, and good night sweet, sweet, America.

[Varee]

Yes we can!

Thank you for your insight our ever caring president. You have my vote umm i mean my support....

[flabort]

My second choice for scum pick right now?
Hard choice, but I'd have to say... agh, can't decide between yourself (Nerjin), 4mask, or...
Actually, it's not that hard of a decision once I've reminded myself of Cheeetar's existence. The guy is rubbing one of my roots nerves wrong.

Shakerag remains my top suspect.