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[Hapah]

Extendify.

[Toaster]

Extend.  Insufficient brain available at this time.

[Jack A T]

Extension Requests: 7/7 (4maskwolf, PTDfun, MyOwnWorstEnemy, Persus13, flabort, Hapah, Toaster)

Day extended!

Day ends 9:00 PM Tuesday, July 1st, or upon hammer (7 votes).

[Toaster]

4mask:

And if Toly is a mafia ally, isn't it a better idea to kill the scum first?

Rest of the answer is coming soon (along with everything else), but I wanted to hit this one really quickly:  Why?  Since Mafia-Ally obstructs the town win, getting rid of him has to happen at some point, so why not now?

[SilverDragon]

I know I'm no longer involved, but seriously, that's a lot of extensions.

[Toaster]

4mask and Flabort:

Let me ask you this: what makes you so certain that Toly is a maf ally?

Toaster You're making my gut tingle again. Please justify your attack on TolyK, and prove how his post leads you to believe his is a Mafia-Ally.

I'll get to this in the reads section.

Myself, Ottofar, Toaster, 4maskwolf As the four way tie needs to be broken in some way, what are the pros and cons of a no lynch? What are the pros and cons of lynching each of your three current vote competitors?

Pros:  None.
Cons:  Waste of a day (because we'd come into D2 almost certainly little better off than we are today.) Scum gets their kill.  Town gets no say in suspect elimination (which is what the lynch is.)  Expect D2 to be repeat of D1.

I'll cover comparisons in the reads.

Lynching Ottofar would remove an inactive player from the game, but would deprive us of his skill when he's not lurking.  Lynching 4mask would remove a chaotic and somewhat unpredictable element, but it would mean that a medium skilled player would be gone.

I can't help but notice that you're pretty much writing off 4mask and especially Ottofar off as town here; the latter contradicts your scum read of him in your read post.  Why is this?


Hapah:

What I'm trying to do is make them work a little harder if they want to fake a claim down the road.

Ooooooh, I gotcha.  Yeah, everything seems reasonably matched.


PTD:

Toaster, TolyK, Varee, PTDfun, EPenguin Those are some very different answers to one question. If each of you had a daykill to use day 1 only, would you use it? Who would you use it on?

In a standard mafia game with 12 players (three mafia), I would not use it. If town mislynched every turn, then the default setup would hit MYLO on turn 3. If I used the day 1 kill and missed, then that would become LYLO instead. In this game, it would depend on how confident I am about my read on a player. If so, I would use it on a player who looked overly towny. At this moment, I do not have a particular player in mind.

Overly... towny?  Why that person?



Reads:  (Gruh, this still isn't my bag, but I'll play along since not much else is going on here)  (Reminder:  If a person isn't listed, I have zero read on them.)

TolyK:  The one you all came for.  Well, this was all a pressure attempt that I saw an early opportunity for.  I bungled it by not pressing hard enough, but I did get a reaction I could rate from him, and he passed pretty well.  Town lean for now, so Unvote TolyK.

Persus:  Two posts with content, but they're both high-quantity and I don't have any issues with his quality.  Nothing suspicious about him.

Ottofar:  He's playing?  [Hint: this is not a good read]

Varee:  Hasn't found his groove yet.  That said, I have no issues with his play.  Very slight town lean.

MOWE:  Nothing either way.  Neutral.

PTDfun:  New, but clearly has a grasp on the game.  That said, is bugging me a bit for reasons I'm unable to put my thumb on.  Not sure why he thought I suspected Flabort before this post.

Flabort:  Only issue I see with him is the question directed to him above.

I know I'm no longer involved, but seriously, that's a lot of extensions.

Be glad it's not a hammers-only game.

[flabort]

Lynching Ottofar would remove an inactive player from the game, but would deprive us of his skill when he's not lurking.  Lynching 4mask would remove a chaotic and somewhat unpredictable element, but it would mean that a medium skilled player would be gone.

I can't help but notice that you're pretty much writing off 4mask and especially Ottofar off as town here; the latter contradicts your scum read of him in your read post.  Why is this?

-snip-

Ottofar:  He's playing?  [Hint: this is not a good read]

I'm writing off 4mask as town. I put Ottofar's inactivity and poor vote far higher than I do any insight he may have when he's active. He's not really playing, and the one action he's taken is to wagon.

[Jiokuy]

Hey PTDfun: I think you have my confused with someone else in your read.

Unless you are referring to my comment "victory does not equal survival" which was not intended as a direct Joker reference. Excluding the survivor and it's variants e.g. guardian, almost every common role/alignment can win while dead. Even a SK could theoretically win if there are no living players (themselves included).

----------------------------------------

@4mask:I was pointing out what I saw as a composite minor scumtell. However all of my examples are from very early on and said actions have not been repeated.

PTDfun: Your reads especially mine come across as lazy, but your other posts appear to have some content.

EPenguin: You've been fairly active. Slight town lean. Do WotC Mafia matches behave significantly differently from these here?

Lord Toaster:*sigh* Toady help us if you're scum. Still beyond my ability to read as anything but strong town.
(that said I tried reading your posts from an archived game, where you were scum, and you still read strong town to me)
I'll be watching you on principal, no hard feelings.

----------------------------------------

Ottofar: You've managed to post even less than myself. Your RVS was weak, and you failed to follow up on it. You've given me several reasons to support lynching you, and precious few reasons against it.

[Ottofar]

I'm gonna take the time to post today.

[4maskwolf]

4mask:

And if Toly is a mafia ally, isn't it a better idea to kill the scum first?

Rest of the answer is coming soon (along with everything else), but I wanted to hit this one really quickly:  Why?  Since Mafia-Ally obstructs the town win, getting rid of him has to happen at some point, so why not now?

Wait, mafia ally's obstruct town victory?

mod: is this so?

[flabort]

I wouldn't think so, otherwise they'd just be uninformed mafia.
Right?

[Jack A T]

Wait, mafia ally's obstruct town victory?

mod: is this so?

Yes. BYOR 12 wincons apply with the exception of survivor, who must survive to the end of the game if one exists (should have posted this initially... inexperienced mod mistakes...).

Be careful when reading role PMs, and make sure you fully understand your wincons.

[flabort]

Reading that list of wincons, a mafia-ally "wins when mafia wins", nothing about counting towards mafia victory. However, I realized that there is something else. Town wins when all anti-town factions win, and then in the parenthesis, it says respective allies and brothers; Yes, while it's not obvious and I didn't think it through, town cannot win while a mafia-ally is alive.

[PTDfun]

PFP

This is my second mafia game on a forum (and I only lived one day in the last one). I may be rational, and able to present my ideas clearly, but I have very little experience reading players or knowing what to look for. In the last game, I was convinced a townie was mafia (TheDarkStar). I had a strong gut feeling that Tiruin was mafia (but no evidence), and I was easily convinced of the other mafia's (LARD's) townishness. My reads capture the things that have stood out about each player so far, and I am being cautious because I'm not confident in my gut yet. I said the thing about overly townie player because I was swindled by LARD in my other game (I play from experience - which is limited).

Frankly, I don't know the distinction between null and neutral reads. I know that the former means you need more info, but what's the latter mean? You have "enough" info and still they don't swing either way?

I'll try to respond to anything I haven't addressed tomorrow.

[Jack A T]

Votecount:
*Persus13 - (0)
*flabort - Varee, Ottofar (2)
*TolyK - (0)
*Ottofar - PTDfun, flabort, Jiokuy (3)
*Varee - (0)
*Toaster - TolyK, 4maskwolf (2)
*MyOwnWorstEnemy - (0)
*PTDfun - (0)
*EPenguin - (0)
*Jiokuy - (0)
*Hapah - (0)
*4maskwolf  - Persus13 (1)
Not Voting: MyOwnWorstEnemy, EPenguin, Hapah, Toaster

Day ends 9:00 PM Tuesday, July 1st, or upon hammer (7 votes).  There are no more extensions available.