Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[PyroDesu]

Simus is going to oversee construction of the manip facility unless otherwise specified.

As in physically going up to see it happen? Or just overseeing?

I believe that one of those remote-command robobodies, with a QEC backpack, Saint made would come in handy here. Physically going without, well, physically going.

((I know the wiki says Saint's possessing 2 and one is stationed in medical, but I have to ask how he manages to be in two places at once? I don't think the brain can handle that))

[syvarris]

((I meant he's generally possessing one or the other of the main pair.  He switches to the medical one when he needs to do something medical- it's only stationed there for very rapid response.  I never intended for him to be using two bodies at the same time.))

[PyroDesu]

((I meant he's generally possessing one or the other of the main pair.  He switches to the medical one when he needs to do something medical- it's only stationed there for very rapid response.  I never intended for him to be using two bodies at the same time.))

((Figured as much, but the wiki's wording is ambiguous and I could see PW playing it as you possessing both at once.))

[piecewise]

Simus is going to oversee construction of the manip facility unless otherwise specified.

As in physically going up to see it happen? Or just overseeing?

I believe that one of those remote-command robobodies, with a QEC backpack, Saint made would come in handy here. Physically going without, well, physically going.

((I know the wiki says Saint's possessing 2 and one is stationed in medical, but I have to ask how he manages to be in two places at once? I don't think the brain can handle that))

Fine with me. We'll get one on a shuttle and send it out there, though there's not a lot to see for now. Just drilling and blasting and moving materials for now.

[Radio Controlled]

Hey, Radio & Committee, unless I missed something, you haven't reviewed my mini battle suit robobody thing.  The above spoiler contains all the condensed information.  If you want me to name a price first, I'd tentatively put it at sixteen or seventeen tokens; It's better than an MK.III for most purposes (although it requires you to get your head chopped off), but it's still quite inferior to a battlesuit.  It's only real benefit over a BS is the fact that you can go almost anywhere the rest of your team can go.

I do intend for it to be an armory item, even though it's mostly designed for sods.  I think a lot of people would like something similar to a battlesuit, that doesn't greatly restrict their play.

((not a lot of time left after big TEN post, so just this quickly:
Could you make two small lists that contain in short bullet point form what the suit loses compared to standard battlesuit, and what it gains? Mostly because it help with keeping eye on the bigger picture of the suit. Be sure to add small things like the modified electrical defense system, and how much armor a battlesuit has compared to this suit, and how that translates in terms of in-game protection (preferably a pw-quoted statement, so we can accurately compare).

Secondly, I'd personally price it around 18-20 by intuition, but I also feel that might be too close to the battlesuit. Then again, even just being able to move indoors is a huge boon, especially for player characters. Personally, I'd wait a bit more to see what pw or rest council (still not fully available) thinks on the price, but I'd seriously consider dropping the flight pack (should be easy to buy later on for a PC) and maybe the optical cluster (aka you lose the extra view modes, but leave a little space so people can install cameyes should they want). You can then design a second 'sod-version' that does have these (and maybe other?) bells and whistles, seeing as how token cost isn't an issue with them.))

[Sean Mirrsen]

Anton Chernozorov

Do we have an ETA on those defense ships?

---------------

How much larger will the fuel tank on the modified rocket pack have to be to match the Mk3 in longevity? How large (in relation to the body) are the Mk3's normal rocket packs anyway?

Will the dual-Raduga laser backpack be reasonably wearable with a Mk3-like exoskeleton (i.e. as part of the MACS system)? If yes (don't see why not), make it a MACS-compatible module.

Design the assembly stand for securing the large MACS modules. Make it so the modules slot into place and hold there without being fastened, but require either the assembly stand or some manual work to be secured properly. This is so the assembly stand doesn't need to manipulate the modules themselves, and maybe a sufficiently dextrous user could fasten the requisite bolts by himself.

Finalize the design of the MACS rocket pack, the turbofan pack, and the heavy laser pack.

Work on designing a "rocket boot" module, that could attach to the suit's legs. It's not intended for prolonged flight, more short controlled jumps, as it cannot have nearly the same fuel capacity as the backpack. The rocket thruster itself is a single larger thruster in the "sole" of the "boot", accompanied by an array of additional verniers intended to keep the user upright while flying. Two boots and their combined tanks should give maybe 20% to a quarter of the rocket pack's flight time, and far less mobility (albeit similar thrust capacity). This is intended for use with "flightless" MACS backpack modules.

[syvarris]

Mini-battlesuit things, for Radio:

1.My MBS has two layers of armor: one of the standard laser resistant lasers all battlesuits have, and one of the ballistic layer.  How does this translate in-game, compared to a standard battlesuit?

2.Because I think it will come up, how much armor does the mobility battlesuit have, in comparison to the standard one?

3.If I can, try to pull up a copy of the type of mining laser that was used on the sharkmist mission, that damaged Gilgamesh.  How powerful is it in comparison to a cutting laser?

Normal tinkery stuff:

4.PSL shards- when they explode, do they explode in fragments like a normal fragmentation grenade, or only electricity?

5.Run an experiment in VR.  I want to fill a spherical container that's just large enough for this, made of very thin metal, with 110% the fluid required to make a full PSL shard.  Put a small battery in it, with just enough juice that it should be able to crystallize the fluid.  Link the battery to an external button with a five second timer. 

6.What, exactly, happens when the button is pressed?

7.If it is capable of killing a sod, what is the range at which the sod will usually die?  (I.E. would have to roll an end:5 or something.)

((Will write up MBS advantages list, and update wiki page laterish.  Maybe answer Pancaek too.  Been feeling horrible lately. ._.))

[syvarris]

((Double posting for less PW post clutter.))

Spoiler: Bullet list for Radio (click to show/hide)

((Again, referring to it as 'the thingy' for convenience.))

Advantages relative to a STANDARD battlesuit:

• The thingy has extra cameras on the back of the suit, and one on it's crotch, pointed downwards, to prevent it from having blindspots*
• The thingy's joints are covered by a tough ballistic cloth, which both adds some additional protection, and prevents obstructions from being shoved in.*
• The thingy is able to move around and fight somewhat effectively indoors, although moving through tight choke points like doorways is somewhat awkward.
• It has flight capabilities equivalent to a mobility battlesuit.

*We should probably add the first two points to standard battlesuits; they're simple and cheap.


Disadvantages relative to a STANDARD battlesuit:

• The thingy does not have a battlesuit's claymore defense system
  
• Unlike a standard battlesuit, the thingy only has two layers of armor.
  
  • One is a standard laser resistant layer, which is practically immune to most lasers.  A normal battlesuit has three.
  • The other is a standard kinetic resistant layer, which is supposedly more specialized to resist brute force.  A normal battlesuit has two.
• There is no way to quickly extract a brain from the body, so the pilot is effectively trapped in a mission; if the limbs are crippled, you can't get out.  And you're far harder to recover than other teammates.
• While the thingy was designed to give a +1 to strength and endurance, it's probably weaker than an actual battlesuit.  It is probably still stronger than an exoskeleton, though.
• You have to have your body (if any remains) removed to use the thing.

I didn't include the special hand electrificiation for two reasons.  One, I'm pretty sure a normal battlesuit has that ability; Remember when Flint electrocuted a sod with his finger, without discharging into the ground?  Two, even if it is a difference, I doubt it'll mean much- I only added it so that battlesuits could use weapons designed for use with shocking graspers.  Since that idea is dead, I wouldn't even add the ability now.

As far as cost, I'm still thinking seventeen would be a good cost.  It's four more than an MK.III, which is a significant incentive to go for that instead.  It's also three less than a mobility battlesuit, which only loses the indoors fighting ability.  If it were only two tokens less, it wouldn't be hard at all to borrow those, and I don't see many people going for a thingy over a mobility battlesuit.  Especially when you consider that the latter stacks with other equipment better- previous suits can still be worn.  Plus, if it's crippled (something that can happen to the thingy much more easily), then you can exit and continue fighting or run away.  Or at least have a teammate enter and chop off your head, so that you don't have to restart the game.

I don't think the indoors ability is that big of an advantage, in general.  In past missions, about a third would have found that to be notably helpful.  Ignoring missions that didn't involve suits, of course.

Do we have an ETA on those defense ships?

Nu-uh.  Nothing directly stated anyway.  You might want to rephrase that, so that PW can't answer "I dunno, check the wiki"

Will the dual-Raduga laser backpack be reasonably wearable with a Mk3-like exoskeleton (i.e. as part of the MACS system)? If yes (don't see why not), make it a MACS-compatible module.

Why... why would you do this?  And why wouldn't it be massively heavy?  The Raduga requires ten strength, so logically, using two would require twice that.  Stats are usually pretty linear.  And again, why?  The Raduga is already at the level that basically anything that isn't designed specifically to counter lasers is gonna die in short order, and the things that are designed like that, are still too strong for this to be a really effective idea.  A PSL would be cheaper, and way more effective against battlesuits.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Will the dual-Raduga laser backpack be reasonably wearable with a Mk3-like exoskeleton (i.e. as part of the MACS system)? If yes (don't see why not), make it a MACS-compatible module.

Why... why would you do this?  And why wouldn't it be massively heavy?  The Raduga requires ten strength, so logically, using two would require twice that.  Stats are usually pretty linear.  And again, why?  The Raduga is already at the level that basically anything that isn't designed specifically to counter lasers is gonna die in short order, and the things that are designed like that, are still too strong for this to be a really effective idea.  A PSL would be cheaper, and way more effective against battlesuits.

Anything large enough to be a threat to a battlesuit is patently useless as a shoulder-mounted weapon. A cutting laser, gauss cannon, or plasma projector is plain too large. A laser rifle is pitifully weak, and gauss/rocket gauss rifles aren't terribly effective either. The PSL is likewise too large, but it's also got an exacerbating factor shared by the Testament - its ammunition is bloody huge. You gain no benefit from using a Testament as a shoulder-mount, versus just mounting it on your arm pylon (MACS provides those) and getting the backpack fluid tank.

The Raduga is thus the only thing even theoretically worth using for this. Due to a design quirk, it can be located mostly on the backpack, with only a smaller section actually protruding over the shoulder to aim with. Plus it can overcharge-fire with the temporary power of three to four cutting lasers, so two firing at once at one target, even if that target is a battlesuit, should deliver a pretty noticeable punch.

I do actually plan to have a version using Gauss rifles or Testaments (or regular laser rifles), but it's a different system altogether. It's just a mount for two extra AI-controlled ranged weapons, based off the Artee's auxiliary arms.

[Toaster]

Can you upscale the Raduga even more to fit in a similar role?  You should check for clash with the Heavy Laser battlesuit if you do that (I realize it's the old-style laser)

[syvarris]

@Sean
Okay, I forgot about the Raduga being able to do the redirect at the tip trick, but my points still stand: A.This is an extraordinarily heavy device, that B.still won't do much damage, because a cutting laser barely does anything at all to a single layer of BS laser armor, and a BS has three of them, so even if you sextuple the power you're still multiplying a tiny amount of damage.  Lastly, C.It's still gonna be expensive as a skeletal undead carp, so a PSL, which is far more effective, is a much better bargain, even if you have to use your hands to fire it.

I'd forsee your device taking, at minimum, four overcharged shots to kill/harm a pilot; Three to cut through the laser layers (and a good bit into a ballistic one), and one to cut through the remainder of that layer, all the way through the next, and then into the pilot.  This would require the lasers being much more efficient when all the energy is dumped at once, not to mention perfect accuracy for all four shots.  And the ballistic layers not having any real laser resistance.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if it took eleven shots instead.

All this when a battlesuit can be killed with a cheap 3-token microwave amp or manip... I don't see anyone buying it.  Maybe a single laser, but not two.

Also, PSL ammo is actually the exact opposite of 'bloody huge'- it's extraordinarily compact.  The propane tank size magazine carries thirty shots capable of skewering what amounts to a space tank, and if the Testament used the same ratio of crystal to liquid, then it's overlarge magazine would carry eleven and a half thousand rounds.  It's just that infinite ammo is OP, so it's extraordinarily inefficient.

[Sean Mirrsen]

..and lastly and most importantly, I am simply a fan of oversized beam weapons being fired over the shoulder. (that's called a Shutzwald, and the drawing is, unfortunately, not mine)

And Russian cursing doesn't translate easily into English.

Anyways, I rather do agree that even the dual-Raduga setup isn't going to swiftly and efficiently kill a battlesuit. However, the Battlesuit is specifically said to be extra resistant to lasers, so it's kind of like faulting a dragster for being a bad choice for the Paris-Dakar championship. It's fairly well established that if you do want to kill a Battlesuit, your best bet is using kinetic weapons.

On the other hand, with the twin-Raduga backpack, you get enough firepower to burn down a small village within the span of a minute. And you have enough regular electric power to keep burning down small villages as long as there are any within line of sight. And with the MACS, you don't have to use all that electric power just for burning down small villages. Plus there's the versatility of the weapon itself, etc, etc.

So while you do have much better choices for killing Battlesuits, and selecting this pack over a mobility pack will cost you, well, mobility - but if you're ever in a role that needs to have a lot of good old laser power, there's no solution that'll give you more of it in a human-sized package, especially not one that will also keep your hands unencumbered.

Speaking of which, the gimbals on this thing could be powered. Substituting Aux for Con is a pretty popular choice lately.

[Radio Controlled]

Will the dual-Raduga laser backpack be reasonably wearable with a Mk3-like exoskeleton (i.e. as part of the MACS system)? If yes (don't see why not), make it a MACS-compatible module.

Sean, as far as I'm aware, it is often better to either dual wield using two different weapons (different damage types and such), or to invest the resources that went into two identical weapons in a single, more potent weapon.

Also, 10str+10str=20 str requirement at least, and +1str roll from exoskeleton only gives +15.

The Raduga is thus the only thing even theoretically worth using for this.

Missile pods?

Speaking of which, the gimbals on this thing could be powered. Substituting Aux for Con is a pretty popular choice lately.

Perhaps, but it's been well established that switching out rolls like that should cost something (and right now, one needs to buy a hardpoint for it, and them ain't cheap son!).

4.PSL shards- when they explode, do they explode in fragments like a normal fragmentation grenade, or only electricity?
5.Run an experiment in VR.  I want to fill a spherical container that's just large enough for this, made of very thin metal, with 110% the fluid required to make a full PSL shard.  Put a small battery in it, with just enough juice that it should be able to crystallize the fluid.  Link the battery to an external button with a five second timer.
6.What, exactly, happens when the button is pressed?
7.If it is capable of killing a sod, what is the range at which the sod will usually die?  (I.E. would have to roll an end:5 or something.)

May I inquire what exactly the end purpose of this is? New nade type?

Oh, and thanks for the list, it's appreciated.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Will the dual-Raduga laser backpack be reasonably wearable with a Mk3-like exoskeleton (i.e. as part of the MACS system)? If yes (don't see why not), make it a MACS-compatible module.

Sean, as far as I'm aware, it is often better to either dual wield using two different weapons (different damage types and such), or to invest the resources that went into two identical weapons in a single, more potent weapon.

Also, 10str+10str=20 str requirement at least, and +1str roll from exoskeleton only gives +15.

((Well, you can already sort of have two different weapons like this (inasmuch as the Raduga is at least three different lasers in one), but I see your point. I'm not sure a single heavy laser using the whole 16TPU of power will work as a man-portable weapon though.

And 10 str is for when you have to hold and aim it with your hands. When most of it is on your back, the requirement would be somewhat reduced. Yes, it would be heavy, but in the "heavy to carry" sense, not "heavy to handle". The +15 strength from an exoskeleton should probably cover the weight.))

The Raduga is thus the only thing even theoretically worth using for this.

Missile pods?

((Unlikely, but grenades could work, albeit not against Battlesuits so much. Could use Hammerhead missiles, but then the pack would cost more than an Avatar. ))

Speaking of which, the gimbals on this thing could be powered. Substituting Aux for Con is a pretty popular choice lately.

Perhaps, but it's been well established that switching out rolls like that should cost something (and right now, one needs to buy a hardpoint for it, and them ain't cheap son!).

((Well, it's already going to be a fairly expensive pack. The Raduga is 11 token, bulk discount for two would make it 20, the extra fiddly bits would make it 23-24. Half off for lease, that's still 12 token. And while yes, it gives you a powerful weapon at half cost, it also weighs you down both literally and in the "need to pay extra to be able to fly a little again" sense, so it's mostly balanced that way, I think.))

[Unholy_Pariah]

The Raduga is thus the only thing even theoretically worth using for this.

Missile pods?

Translocation rifles?