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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[mainiac]

Actually that is exactly the opposite conclusion of what mainstream economics tells us.

American mainstream economics that is. Of course you can just print money and pile up debt if you have the economy to eventually get out of debt at some point.

And that's not remotely a characterization of American mainstream economics.  Nor is what I'm talking about an American invention, I'm talking about ideas in the English tradition that are used in every successful economy in the world, including Europe up until recently.  The US is actually notable for being half hearted in it's approach.

With the demographic changes in Europe however, going farther and farther into debt is going to make things far worse in the future, as our welfare systems become increasingly less sustainable, with less people having to pay for more (including the increasing debt and interest).

Try looking at the Japanese for a moment.  Their demographic shifts are far worse but they recently made a strong move to implement vanilla mainstream new-Keynesian thought and it's having exactly the effects that the mainstream has predicted.

[Sheb]

But seriously, I'm willing to accept all discussions from Lisbon to Vladivostok and Astana in the EuroThread. :p

[mainiac]

IDK, the thing is that German and ECB economic decisions are doing a huge amount to determine the fate of eastern countries like the Baltics and Greece.

[Owlbread]

But seriously, I'm willing to accept all discussions from Lisbon to Vladivostok and Astana in the EuroThread. :p

I think Lisbon has its place in the European thread along with this discussion but Vladivostok and Astana are most emphatically not European. We can't let the Imperialists get away with that sort of thing.

[Sheb]

We can change the thread name to Europe and Former USSR.

[Darvi]

Make it the Eurafricasian politithread.

[GlyphGryph]

I get it, the Germany is The Ultimate Evil™. However, Germany is not an Eastern European country.

Don't be silly. Everyone knows The Ultimate Evil™ lurks just beyond the reach of even our most sensitive long-range detectors - just further proof of its nefarious intent!

[Xeron]

Now, to rerail the goddamn thread.
Anyone remember that pipeline project Romania and a couple of other states from the area tried to negotiate with Azerbaijan ? The millions of euros lost on that, after Azerbaijan lolchanged their mind and did another project which pretty much bypassed us and went straight to Italy,Albania and others.

[Sheb]

What was its name? The Nabucco pipeline or something? Does it matter?

[GreatJustice]

Actually that is exactly the opposite conclusion of what mainstream economics tells us.

American mainstream economics that is. Of course you can just print money and pile up debt if you have the economy to eventually get out of debt at some point.

And that's not remotely a characterization of American mainstream economics.  Nor is what I'm talking about an American invention, I'm talking about ideas in the English tradition that are used in every successful economy in the world, including Europe up until recently.  The US is actually notable for being half hearted in it's approach.

Those ideas in the English tradition have done a great job of bleeding the wealth out of wealthy, successful economies. 

With the demographic changes in Europe however, going farther and farther into debt is going to make things far worse in the future, as our welfare systems become increasingly less sustainable, with less people having to pay for more (including the increasing debt and interest).

Try looking at the Japanese for a moment.  Their demographic shifts are far worse but they recently made a strong move to implement vanilla mainstream new-Keynesian thought and it's having exactly the effects that the mainstream has predicted.

Man, I didn't know the mainstream prediction was for real Japanese wages to go in the toilet, glad to know those guys are really looking out for people

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[mainiac]

Man, I didn't know the mainstream prediction was for real Japanese wages to go in the toilet, glad to know those guys are really looking out for people

1) They were doing so well before???
2) Hey maybe you could actually look at stuff like interest rates and pretend to practice economics.  But hey no, that's not your usual tactic.  You always do guilt by association.  Here is bad thing!  Thing I associate with left does bad thing!  Thing I associate with left bad!

[Knit tie]

Should I change the thread name or not?

[GreatJustice]

Man, I didn't know the mainstream prediction was for real Japanese wages to go in the toilet, glad to know those guys are really looking out for people

1) They were doing so well before???
2) Hey maybe you could actually look at stuff like interest rates and pretend to practice economics.

The Japanese have been engaging in Keynesian stimulus for the past, oh, twenty years or so. It's not like they tried anything else, unless you think a 250% debt to GDP ratio and near 0% interest rates are examples of a hands-off economic policy. So "they tried economic intervention and it didn't work, so now they're trying even more economic intervention and it's not working in different ways" isn't a very strong argument.

Interest rates in Japan have been pretty close to the same for a very long time, so there isn't much to see there unless you want the BoJ to start giving away money and to drop it from helicopters.

[mainiac]

The Japanese have been engaging in Keynesian stimulus for the past, oh, twenty years or so. It's not like they tried anything else, unless you think a 250% debt to GDP ratio and near 0% interest rates are examples of a hands-off economic policy.

You always do guilt by association.  Here is bad thing!  Thing I associate with left does bad thing!  Thing I associate with left bad!

No effort to understand, no economic model, no predictive value, just the true believers views.

[Sergarr]

We really need a thread about economics.