Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[mastahcheese]

WhitiusOpus

Also, this.

In summary, I'm on the line (leaning towards yes) as to keeping you alive, but mad at myself for not changing it to NAV to help ensure a D1 lynch. Then again, this was his first BM game.

[Bolded part] This does not sound like a phrase town would use at all. Keep me alive?

How is it not a phrase a town would use? Maybe my wording is odd, or off, but what I'm trying to say is 'letting you live'. That's what I did, right? By switching my vote off of you, it allowed you to participate in the next day, and not be lynched. I'm not trying to 'keep you alive', that was a bad choice of words. I meant, 'allowing to to continue to breath'. But even then, that's not a great wording either, is it? That infers that I'm the one who decides your death. Maybe the best way to say this is "I'm on the line as to having switched my vote, and therefore leaving you alive, and us with a no lynch".

It's been your whole demeanor so far that I'm getting at, you're not acting like someone who's been trying to find evidence of scumminess, you've been acting like someone who trying to trip people up to accuse them of it.

Here, I'll pull up some of the things I'm talking about.

MastahCheese: Alright, "scumbiscuit", how do you think the best way to apply pressure to someone is? What's the distinction between knowing if you've cracked a newbie, or a scum?

This is your first question towards me, already calling me scum. Normally, this wouldn't be worth mentioning, except to point out that I was the first person you singled out in this manner, and persisted on it. Looking back, the only one.

mastahcheese: I am still not convinced of your innocence, scum! How angry would you be, on a scale from 1-10, if you got lynched D1 from lawlz RV? Would it be detrimental to your scum buddies?

You're asking questions that are already implying that I'm scum, I fail to see what you possibly gain from this, other than an attempt to trip someone up, for answering a question which is already giving itself its own answer.

Ok. You've satisfied my hunger for blood curiosity, Herr Cheese. Unvote.

4maskwolf: Do sane maskwolf and insane maskwolf correspond to your alignment? Ie, are you more serious when townie, and less as scum, and vice versa?

This. After you failed to trip me up twice, you then shift targets away from me, but I don't see the same vigor in which you had applied towards me. You don't even follow up on your question, instead...

I agree. It doesn't seem quite fair to lynch a player who joined so late.

TDS: So you might possibly be scum, and have been scum in a previous game. Who would be in your ideal scum team, for this?

Unvote

TheDarkStar: I would like you to be more engaged in the game. Please start being more active, and answer this question. I've bolded the more important piece.

You then switch targets over to the lurker, who isn't here to defend himself, tying up the vote in the process.

Mastahcheese: Are you happy that I took my vote off you, giving you another day to live, and the time to kill in the night?

Now the night is over, the lurker is dead, and you once again resume your attempts to trip me up with a question that is, once again, already implying scumminess.

...And it's now that I realized that I've quoted the vast majority of what you've posted so far.

Everything you've been saying has been blatantly attempting to pin me as scum, before even letting me answer the question.

Mastahcheese: Are you happy that I took my vote off you, giving you another day to live, and the time to kill in the night?

[Italics] You're talking like you have control over this, like you decide who lives or dies here. You're talking from a scum perspective.
__________________________________________________
I think I'll answer your question now, Opus.

What do you think? Should I have left my vote on you, or forgo a D1 lynch? I don't think lynching someone on their first mafia game is a viable option.

I don't think that lynching someone D1 on their first game is viable, either. From a point of information, you should have gone with the lynch on me, because there's no better time in the game to perform a lynch than D1, it has the least risk.

I don't "have control over this". I "had the ability to let you live or hang". I don't think it's a scum perspective, if that is what truly happened. I believe the above answers this. As well, it's interesting to note you completely glossed over the part about you killing in the night. Any reason for that?

[Bolded part] This once again ties in with what I'm pointing out above. You're asking questions, well, with this, not even asking, just accusing, things that serve absolutely no purpose, except to draw a response from me, in the form of something to be used incriminatingly.

You say that I kill in the night, how can I respond to this?
Obviously, there is only one answer, to say that I didn't, at which point you'd ask why I felt the need to point it out.
But you knew that already, didn't you?

[1] Basically, I see no reason for your vote on me, mastahcheese, other then OMGUSing. You're taking what I've said and twisting it to fit what you want. Yes, I may have over exaggerated my vote-change, but then again, not many people are here to give their perspectives. [2] Otherwise, you've taken some quotes out of context, and phrasing it as if I'm talking from a scum perspective when I'm just referring to what happened D1. I bet your scum buddy will be proud when you lead a myslynch today.

[Bolded part] Do you still fail to see how this is being continued by you? I don't think I can make this more obvious.
There are two things I want to say to this.
[1] Your accusation of an OMGUS is amusing, seeing as how I'm actually proving evidence of my accusations on you, while you're just repeating "scum!" and leading the questions to innately agree with you. It almost makes me thing that the reason you voted me is just to call out "OMGUS" once I start to press you on the matter.
[2] Out of context? I've quoted you word for word. And please point out what it is that I'm supposedly taking out of context, since you're failing to provide context at all with this.

NAV

[1] Please don't go easy on me just because it's my first game. Not Like I really need to say this any more, considering day 1 of my first Mafia is over.

Mastahcheese: You were the last person to vote, even though you knew the vote wouldn't accomplish anything. Why then did you vote?

[1] Well, day 1 is over, and you need to actually be here to learn.
[2] I voted to hopefully get Pufferfish to respond, I still find his actions to have been very scummy, and I'm awaiting his response on the matter. I've already stated that I'm not going to D1 lynch a player on their first game. I'm not the only one who thinks this way, either.

[notquitethere]

Paniac

The general unvoting causing the day to end in draw is basically our only clue. BECAUSE: when someone dies, we check who did what with such person. But opposite is also true: when someone does not die, we should check who did what to get draw. But that might not be machinations of scum/scum team, but just error on town part. Hard to say, without thorough look.

Sure, and now, looking back, what do you think the record tells us?

Cheese

I'll have to inspect other stuff closer later.

Do you think Whitius' rapid vote swapping was suspicious then?

MOWE

Well since I had a null read on him the entire game, I'm not terribly surprised that he flipped town. Just as I wouldn't have been terribly surprised if we'd lynched him and he flipped scum.

I see. And do you feel you're doing enough now to strengthen your reads on the surviving players: you say you find Opus super scummy yet there's only a finger of suspicion there. Why so reticent?
 
Whitius, you convinced Cheese is scum?

NAV
It's about a day until the end of the day, if you want to avenge NAV's death, shouldn't you place a vote?

Pufferfish, Persus
Are you going to help lynch someone today?

[mastahcheese]

Cheese

I'll have to inspect other stuff closer later.

Do you think Whitius' rapid vote swapping was suspicious then?

Back then? I didn't think too much of it, but now? Yeah, I find it suspicious, I've outlined my general thoughts in the post above yours.

[WhitiusOpus]

Okay. Let me take a step back, Unvote, and have a breather.

Spoiler: mastahcheese (click to show/hide)

WhitiusOpus

Also, this.

In summary, I'm on the line (leaning towards yes) as to keeping you alive, but mad at myself for not changing it to NAV to help ensure a D1 lynch. Then again, this was his first BM game.

[Bolded part] This does not sound like a phrase town would use at all. Keep me alive?

How is it not a phrase a town would use? Maybe my wording is odd, or off, but what I'm trying to say is 'letting you live'. That's what I did, right? By switching my vote off of you, it allowed you to participate in the next day, and not be lynched. I'm not trying to 'keep you alive', that was a bad choice of words. I meant, 'allowing to to continue to breath'. But even then, that's not a great wording either, is it? That infers that I'm the one who decides your death. Maybe the best way to say this is "I'm on the line as to having switched my vote, and therefore leaving you alive, and us with a no lynch".

It's been your whole demeanor so far that I'm getting at, you're not acting like someone who's been trying to find evidence of scumminess, you've been acting like someone who trying to trip people up to accuse them of it.

Here, I'll pull up some of the things I'm talking about.

MastahCheese: Alright, "scumbiscuit", how do you think the best way to apply pressure to someone is? What's the distinction between knowing if you've cracked a newbie, or a scum?

This is your first question towards me, already calling me scum. Normally, this wouldn't be worth mentioning, except to point out that I was the first person you singled out in this manner, and persisted on it. Looking back, the only one.

mastahcheese: I am still not convinced of your innocence, scum! How angry would you be, on a scale from 1-10, if you got lynched D1 from lawlz RV? Would it be detrimental to your scum buddies?

You're asking questions that are already implying that I'm scum, I fail to see what you possibly gain from this, other than an attempt to trip someone up, for answering a question which is already giving itself its own answer.

Ok. You've satisfied my hunger for blood curiosity, Herr Cheese. Unvote.

4maskwolf: Do sane maskwolf and insane maskwolf correspond to your alignment? Ie, are you more serious when townie, and less as scum, and vice versa?

This. After you failed to trip me up twice, you then shift targets away from me, but I don't see the same vigor in which you had applied towards me. You don't even follow up on your question, instead...

I agree. It doesn't seem quite fair to lynch a player who joined so late.

TDS: So you might possibly be scum, and have been scum in a previous game. Who would be in your ideal scum team, for this?

Unvote

TheDarkStar: I would like you to be more engaged in the game. Please start being more active, and answer this question. I've bolded the more important piece.

You then switch targets over to the lurker, who isn't here to defend himself, tying up the vote in the process.

Mastahcheese: Are you happy that I took my vote off you, giving you another day to live, and the time to kill in the night?

Now the night is over, the lurker is dead, and you once again resume your attempts to trip me up with a question that is, once again, already implying scumminess.

...And it's now that I realized that I've quoted the vast majority of what you've posted so far.

Everything you've been saying has been blatantly attempting to pin me as scum, before even letting me answer the question.

Mastahcheese: Are you happy that I took my vote off you, giving you another day to live, and the time to kill in the night?

[Italics] You're talking like you have control over this, like you decide who lives or dies here. You're talking from a scum perspective.
__________________________________________________
I think I'll answer your question now, Opus.

What do you think? Should I have left my vote on you, or forgo a D1 lynch? I don't think lynching someone on their first mafia game is a viable option.

I don't think that lynching someone D1 on their first game is viable, either. From a point of information, you should have gone with the lynch on me, because there's no better time in the game to perform a lynch than D1, it has the least risk.

I don't "have control over this". I "had the ability to let you live or hang". I don't think it's a scum perspective, if that is what truly happened. I believe the above answers this. As well, it's interesting to note you completely glossed over the part about you killing in the night. Any reason for that?

[Bolded part] This once again ties in with what I'm pointing out above. You're asking questions, well, with this, not even asking, just accusing, things that serve absolutely no purpose, except to draw a response from me, in the form of something to be used incriminatingly.

You say that I kill in the night, how can I respond to this?
Obviously, there is only one answer, to say that I didn't, at which point you'd ask why I felt the need to point it out.
But you knew that already, didn't you?

[1] Basically, I see no reason for your vote on me, mastahcheese, other then OMGUSing. You're taking what I've said and twisting it to fit what you want. Yes, I may have over exaggerated my vote-change, but then again, not many people are here to give their perspectives. [2] Otherwise, you've taken some quotes out of context, and phrasing it as if I'm talking from a scum perspective when I'm just referring to what happened D1. I bet your scum buddy will be proud when you lead a myslynch today.

[Bolded part] Do you still fail to see how this is being continued by you? I don't think I can make this more obvious.
There are two things I want to say to this.
[1] Your accusation of an OMGUS is amusing, seeing as how I'm actually proving evidence of my accusations on you, while you're just repeating "scum!" and leading the questions to innately agree with you. It almost makes me thing that the reason you voted me is just to call out "OMGUS" once I start to press you on the matter.
[2] Out of context? I've quoted you word for word. And please point out what it is that I'm supposedly taking out of context, since you're failing to provide context at all with this.

NAV

[1] Please don't go easy on me just because it's my first game. Not Like I really need to say this any more, considering day 1 of my first Mafia is over.

Mastahcheese: You were the last person to vote, even though you knew the vote wouldn't accomplish anything. Why then did you vote?

[1] Well, day 1 is over, and you need to actually be here to learn.
[2] I voted to hopefully get Pufferfish to respond, I still find his actions to have been very scummy, and I'm awaiting his response on the matter. I've already stated that I'm not going to D1 lynch a player on their first game. I'm not the only one who thinks this way, either.

Okay. I think I may have tunneled waaay too relentlessly on you. I have basically focused on you pretty much the entire game, but also because you've been one of the few active players. My approach to questioning could be refined (that's part of the reason I'm in a BM game), as right now I'm just accusing you of scum, without much (some, not much) basis to support this. As well, I really don't have a response to this wall of text you've placed. Yes, I see that my whole approach has been to 'accuse of scum, see how they react', which will need work.

Whitius, you convinced Cheese is scum?

No, I'm not totally convinced. I think he is, or there's a suspicion he is, but I'm currently not articulate enough, nor have enough time to find flaws in his argument and piece it apart to the extent he is. I hope that playing mafia more will help with this, but currently the only real evidence I have his over-aggressive push back towards me pressuring him. I think he's overly defensive to the point of offensive, and that's all the lead I have.

So, to put more into this. My reads:


NQT: Leaning heavily towards town, helpful (as IC should be).

mastahcheese: Leaning towards scum.

NAV: Novice town, hasn't posted much.

Persus: Null read for now.

MOWE: Slight scum lean, as he's jumping on the opportunity to get me lynched with mastahcheese, without much basis.

Pufferfish: Is he even still playing?

Painiac: Good at deflecting questions, or satisfying the questioner, and then watching the show from the background. Null read for now.

[Silthuri]

MOWE

Well since I had a null read on him the entire game, I'm not terribly surprised that he flipped town. Just as I wouldn't have been terribly surprised if we'd lynched him and he flipped scum.

I see. And do you feel you're doing enough now to strengthen your reads on the surviving players: you say you find Opus super scummy yet there's only a finger of suspicion there. Why so reticent?
 

I'm explaining how scummy his actions are, but I'm not voting him because if both were indeed beginner mistakes, I don't want to just lynch him. I was shown mercy when I screwed up big time in my first game (basically bandwagoning on the lynch D1 and lynching scum; someone accused me of bussing yet just dropped it a bit later). "You screw up, you die" seems a bit harsh.
Opus:

MOWE: Slight scum lean, as he's jumping on the opportunity to get me lynched with mastahcheese, without much basis.

If I wanted to "get you lynched", I'd vote you.

I also feel the need to say this before it becomes yet another discussion that distracts from the game, I'm a woman. I'm not offended, but every single time someone mistakes me for a guy, there's a discussion on my gender.

[zombie urist]

WhitiusOpus - mastahcheese
mastahcheese - WhitiusOpus
MyOwnWorstEnemy - notquitethere

not voting - Persus13, Painiac, Pufferfish, NAV, MyOwnWorstEnemy

Day 2 will end Tuesday April 8 at 9 PM PST.
This is in ~24 hours

0/3 to extend
0/5 to shorten

Persus13 and Pufferfish have been prodded.

[mastahcheese]

[1] Okay. I think I may have tunneled waaay too relentlessly on you. I have basically focused on you pretty much the entire game, but also because you've been one of the few active players. My approach to questioning could be refined (that's part of the reason I'm in a BM game), as right now I'm just accusing you of scum, without much (some, not much) basis to support this. [2] As well, I really don't have a response to this wall of text you've placed. Yes, I see that my whole approach has been to 'accuse of scum, see how they react', which will need work.

[1] The whole point of tunneling is to be relentless, to see where people crack.
[2] I don't know how to respond to this either, as you're simply backing off from the argument rather than attempting to make a counter argument.

I'll get back to you later.


Persus13, Pufferfish
Since you two are being prodded, I don't know what to say right now.
Still awaiting Fish's response.

Painiac

Gosh. I swear, all we do, is asking each other for reads, and saying we will do something about it. That's silly.

Your reason for not lynching NAV isn't good either, mastahcheese. Honor do not win games.

This is the last thing you said.
Since you've expressed concern over the lack of action, care to do something about it?
Maybe follow up on your question towards me?

NAV
What have you being making of the situations? Anything you've gleamed?

MyOwnWorstEnemy
If you had shown up right before Day 1 ended, would you have switched your vote? If so, onto who, and why?

notquitethere
Same as MOWE.

[Persus13]

The problem is that not many people are doing anything scummy, and we lost D1 because people didn't extend and didn't have cases. I know Pufferfish needs to get in here and post, but I can't think of anything else worth voting.

However, I do intend to go back and read through the thread and see if I find anything suspicious to comment on.

NQT, how's your vote matrix coming along?

[NAV]

NAV
It's about a day until the end of the day, if you want to avenge NAV's death, shouldn't you place a vote?

Avenge my own death  I think you mean TheDarkStar.
Pufferfish Isn't posting. Voting him should either get him in here to post or eliminate him.

NAV
What have you being making of the situations? Anything you've gleamed?

Need to vote people off or lose, and there are a few people who I am suspicious of.
I have learned the importance of day 1 lynches, and the importance of posting regularly. And also some other things like questions should be possible to answer and answers should be impossible to question.

[zombie urist]

I'm going to try replacing Pufferfish.

Please please be more active. I'm mod extending by 12 hours. Day will end Wed Apr 9 at 9 AM PST.

[mastahcheese]

Yeah, it looks like we're going to wind up policy lynching Pufferfish if nothing else happens.

Persus, NAV
How comfortable are you two on your votes on Pufferfish? Would you consider a policy lynch?

[notquitethere]

Whitius, if you have a scum read on one player and none on anyone else, then you should be voting that player (and probably also looking at other people as well).

MOWE

I'm explaining how scummy his actions are, but I'm not voting him because if both were indeed beginner mistakes, I don't want to just lynch him. I was shown mercy when I screwed up big time in my first game (basically bandwagoning on the lynch D1 and lynching scum; someone accused me of bussing yet just dropped it a bit later). "You screw up, you die" seems a bit harsh.

Harsh, and counterproductive when these can be newbie mistakes, but ultimately we're nearing the end of the day and if we keep on mislynching then town will lose.

At this stage, given the paucity of information, we may learn the most from a Pufferfish lynch, as already three players seem in favour.

Everyone, are you pro or con a Puffer-lynch?

[Persus13]

Extend, I'm okay with a policy lynch on Pufferfish, as any lynch will give us more information, and lynching a useless player will do that. If I had reads on things I'd vote someone I thought was scummy, but I don't.

Nav: Did you realize you were bandwagoning on Pufferfish?

mastahcheese: Do you still think WhitiusOpus is scum?

[zombie urist]

Day ends writeup soon.

[WhitiusOpus]

Whitius, if you have a scum read on one player and none on anyone else, then you should be voting that player (and probably also looking at other people as well).

At this stage, given the paucity of information, we may learn the most from a Pufferfish lynch, as already three players seem in favour.

Everyone, are you pro or con a Puffer-lynch?

Ok then, I will reassign my vote back to Mastahcheese.

Also, I'm ambivalent to voting puffer. I'm fairly sure that he's town, just not active at all. But then, he's not contributing to us anyways.