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[XXSockXX]

The whole thing is mostly protectionism for local culture and local economies. I have no problem with it on principle, it's just difficult to implement in a sensible way due to conflicting regional claims to certain product names.
I think cultural protectionism is a good idea, otherwise we'd just become a soulless melting pot. It's not like you can't buy the cheaper knock-offs anyway, which is what most people do, but if you want the original, you are assured to get that too.

BTW can we also prevent Americans to call their Rugby imitation Football with this law? 

[10ebbor10]

Doubt it.

[nenjin]

No, I'm saying the Us already has quality laws for a variety of products, and I could understand them pushing for quality laws.

They're asking for Trademark protection. Something America has been more than happy to side with corporations on. But suddenly because it's not 'murican, we get to ignore our own rules when it doesn't benefit American companies?

They aren't pushing for the US to institute quality laws, they are pushing for their monopoly rights to extend to the US, and there is pretty much no evidence that "quality concerns" are even a consideration here.

They aren't, and they are very sensibly not trying to tell us how we should make our products. But they are asking that we respect the difference instead of appropriating the name, likeness and reputation because we know it's better to trade on an existing name than forge your own.

Put another way. If a hamburger were called a McDonald, you'd have Congress declaring war to protect that trademark. Americans have zero right to get indignant about this. Reject it? Surely. But we're no better than Europe when it puts money in American pockets.

[olemars]

I wonder when John Montagu will be demanding royalties from anyone making a sandwich.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

PTW

[scriver]

My thoughts on this, from the other thread:

I don't really see the problem with it. I was under the impression you're not supposed to supply the consumer with false information.

Except when when place names get accepted into another language as the word for the product, they're generally become a word for the product, not meaning it's from a geographical area. Hence, in Sweden, Champagne was what we called bubbly wine, not wine from Champagne, and "Parmesan" is what we called that kind of cheese regardless of whether it was from Parma or not. Wiener Schnitzel is a way a of cooking the schnitzel, not a schnitzel from Vienna. It wouldn't have been false information as long as the wine was bubbly, the cheese had suitable characteristics and taste, and the schnitzel was prepared in roughly the correct way. That's the kind of things they should be protecting if anything, not superficial bullshit like where they're from. Obviously the EU is going to be protectionist when it comes to French and Italian products, though.

The name protections aren't about protectionism, they're there to prevent the watering-down of standards. That's why it's a good idea to require Parmesan to come from Parma, but nobody would propose to limit Black Forest Cake production to parts of southern Germany.

Don't be naive, it's all about protectionism. If it were about "preventing lowered standards" then they would've made the law about products needing to have certain attributes or fit certain criteria, not needing to be from a particular region.

And really, there's literally no more certain way of making sure watering down standards will happen than a product being from Italy

But the question becomes, should we fight to get our name recognition stuff be adopted by the US? It's a real problem for words that had already become generic there (otherwise you could just get a producer's board to trademark it in the US, like for Cognac).

We should fight to to remove these embarrassing laws in the EU, or at the very least change them into something that isn't completely irrational.

From this thread:

Look like a culture shock then. I just can't imagine a herve not coming from Herve. Maybe it's because as the "Old world", we had the time to develop way more culinary traditions than you guys, and we feel the need to protect them.

No. It is not an "Old World thing". It is a typical example of EU law pandering to France and Italy and the usual Important Nations. It's just protectionism. Don't try to mask it as anything else.

[smirk]

soulless melting pot.

C'mon, the States aren't that bad =P

I'm on the side of enforcing "certified from Region/Country X" on labels, rather than name changes. 'Cause honestly, people (in the US at least) aren't going to listen or care about such things. Like the earlier-mentioned Kleenex and Adobe Photoshop trying to stop their genericization, or (in the other direction) that stupid attempt to get people to say "freedom fries". It might change the packaging, but people will just.. ignore it and use the terms they've always used. All this is going to do will make people over here a little angrier about those Damn European Elitists.

[Foamybeard]

I wonder when John Montagu will be demanding royalties from anyone making a sandwich.

If that is the case, Trojan should be paying Gabriele Falloppio TRILLIONS in Royalties.

[GlyphGryph]

Except of course, nenjin, the US government has consistently sides AGAINST corporate trademarks when the name becomes anything close to genericized. This is why we have aspirin, dry ice, escalators and a host of other objects. These are not considered cheap knock offs - esclators are the real deal no matter who makes them.

They were all brand names quite recently, though.

Its also why some companies like Lego and Kleenex and Xerox mount entire campaigns based around convinving people to use another word as the generic instead.

If these European groups think they have a trademark claim, they should go for it instead of claiming exceptions from american trademark law even when operating in the US

The whole thing is mostly protectionism for local culture and local economies.

There is no cultural requirement for the PDO, only geographic and sometimes process requirements.

[Powder Miner]

Oh you, EU.

I think an issue with this is that as soon as whatever is proposed is issued, companies are just going to find a way to loophole the letter of the law, and little will change.

[XXSockXX]

soulless melting pot.

C'mon, the States aren't that bad =P

That wasn't meant as a shot at the US, as the choice of words would imply. I couldn't think of another word, but what I meant was the loss of regional identity. If you're in Paris or Vienna you'd probably rather go to a coffeehouse rather than to the same Starbucks you could go anywhere. Same if you want a certain regional speciality, you might want the actual thing, not a knock-off from a supermarket chain.

If these European groups think they have a trademark claim, they should go for it instead of claiming exceptions from american trademark law even when operating in the US

That is basically what they are trying to do. Problem is that there are no real groups or something that can apply for a regional name, that's why it's done on government level.
American companies try all the time to apply US law in Europe, if they are not specifically prevented from doing so, so that's nothing unusual.

[nenjin]

Man, reading up on this, the same language and examples are used going back to articles in 2005. Europe has been at this a while.

The issue here is that we don't have a good system for international trademark protection. You have to file claims in the countries of origin, be subjected to the political bias of those places (i.e. American businesses claiming this issue is about "American agriculture and American jobs") and in the case of America, put up with the "FU, 'MURICA" sentiment. Is it any wonder none of them even bother to try to register their trademark?

They were all brand names quite recently, though.

Sure about that? I don't really think escalators are a brand name, made in a specific region known for making escalators. Much like a "Car" isn't made in the region of "Car." Aspirin and Dry Ice, I think you have the right of, but I don't necessarily agree with all your examples.

I dunno. In the end, I think everyone is basically a hypocrite to some degree in this debate. America likes to protect its cottage industries just as much as the next nation. The difference is, their cottage industries predate ours by a long margin, and made up the economic backbone of several regions....which is not true of American cottage industries.

[GlyphGryph]

Put another way. If a hamburger were called a McDonald, you'd have Congress declaring war to protect that trademark. Americans have zero right to get indignant about this. Reject it? Surely. But we're no better than Europe when it puts money in American pockets.

Historically, McDonalds would lose the exclusive right to call it's food item a McDonald. This has happened countless times, it is unlikely it would be different this time. Luckily for them they have consistently reinforced the idea the idea that McDonald is a brand name, not an object.

You should note that in US trademark law, the trademark is weaker if it's associated with a particular process or region, since you have to argue why other people from the region or who use the process shouldn't be able to call it the same thing, and most companies who make that argument lose it, unless there's an already generic term in common use that means the same thing.

If you want Parmesan to be able to trademark it's cheese, the task they have to accomplish is simple - they need to replace the term with a generic. I don't even think they've bothered to come up with one, though! They just want to shut it down completely.

I don't really think escalators are a brand name, made in a specific region known for making escalators

They aren't. They were, though. But the term became genericized and they lost the claim. It was specifically used to refer to the historical maker of the devices, Otis Elevator Co., who were also the exclusive makers for a while and had a good chunk of their prestige built on the brandname.

They only lost the term in 1950, after over 50 years of dominance in the field with all competitors being called "Moving Stairs" or something similar.

[Moghjubar]

IMO, the EU can just suck cheese on this one.

[GlyphGryph]

Also, everyone knows the best parmesan cheese in the world is made in Wisconsin! Mmmm.