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[GlyphGryph]

Look like a culture shock then. I just can't imagine a herve not coming from Herve. Maybe it's because as the "Old world", we had the time to develop way more culinary traditions than you guys, and we feel the need to protect them.

In the New World, we consider cultural and culinary traditions to be a product of people, not of places.

Genuine Navajo rugs would not be expected to come from Navajo territory, but would probably be expected to be made by someone with Navajo heritage to be 'genuine', for example.

[Frumple]

Maybe it's because as the "Old world", we had the time to develop way more culinary traditions than you guys, and we feel the need to protect them.

... wouldn't the best way to protect a culinary tradition be to spread it as far as possible, though? That way if rocks fall and all the breweries squish in the home country, there's still plenty of stuff being made.

[GlyphGryph]

Also, yeah, the US is (well, tends to be) a lot bigger on protecting things by expanding them and creating variants than by locking them up and giving exclusive power over them to a small group of individuals.

Even if the government doesn't always agree.

It's like how we expect "genuine Italian food" to be done in the traditional (American-)Italian style, preferably be real (American-)Italians, but we don't give a crap where it's actually made.

We respect culinary tradition, we just don't give a flip about old-word geography or subscribe to the idea that where a place is made is a defining characteristic of what a thing is.

Except for Tequila, which is always supposed to be made in Mexico, and have a mexican bug in the bottom from mexico.

But that's pretty much explicitly intentionally pushed by the racists who want everyone to remember that Mexican things belong in Mexico or come from mexico and Mexican culture is not welcome in the US.

[Sheb]

Yeah. I guess it all started with wines. The French got hundreds of protected GIs (like every frigging bottles carry the label "Certified from Somevillageyouneverheardof".) And they hold that wine is the product of a specific place as well as know-how. That's why French are horrified at the rather common technique of mixing wines to get a standardized product.

Anyway, this logic works for wine, but for other stuff (like Greek Yoghurt) not so much.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

LeoLeonardo, a bunch of countries in Europe were opposed to the PDO scheme and basically forced into it, and the US Treaty-writers basically have permission to create US laws without legislative action which is, like, SUPER DUMB, but something to keep in mind since they've made it perfectly care they don't care about running roughshod over American law so long as they get to make their favoured American companies more money in another market in return somehow.

Can you explain this more clearly? It sounds like you're saying the US (executive branch writes treaties and the Senate ratifies them) makes treaties with EU which affect how US businesses can operate in the EU?

It feels like on one hand, any businesses operating in the EU need to conform to EU law and of course anything under that: national, local, etc. If it's already established that it's illegal to sell cheese not made in Parma as Parmesan, I don't see why it matters whether that cheese was made in Spain or the US.

That said, is it right to enforce what amounts to a trademark when there probably wasn't a trademark application nor any legal enforcement of trademark? Is it right to perform a governmental taking from other cheese manufacturers when there is no real claim to ownership on the other side? Is the EU perhaps interested in pursuing this because it believes it would result in a beneficial trade outcome for their member countries, and would be uninterested in the ethical considerations if the financial outcome were detrimental for them?

Is there actually a significant difference between Parmesan Cheese made in Parma or Wisconsin? That is, is the consumer being protected against fraud thinking that a low-quality cheese is actually a high-quality cheese? That is, while you can find low-quality cheese from Wisconsin, I'm sure you can find similarly low-quality cheese from Parma, and ditto for cheese of high quality from both places. Even the connoisseur is frequently fooled by blind taste-tests of cheap wine or "bottled waters" all coming from a hose outside.

Secondarily, even if the Parma cheese is really that much better, if the US customer expects a certain texture and flavor from Parmesan cheese he normally buys, can he be said to be deceived if his entire experience is that Wisconsin-produced cheese? He may in fact be unpleasantly surprised at the flavor or texture of cheese from Parma.

[GlyphGryph]

No, no, this is a treat that dictates how US companies do business in the US, and this particular bit has nothing to do with how they do business in Europe, it's explicitly a domestic provision that curtails existing US internal trade.

All these companies already follow Europe's laws when operating in Europe, that's got nothing to do with it.

The EU is pursuing it because they believe they can make money off it.

No, there is no significant difference, assuming it's made in the same way. Parmesan cheese in the US covers a wide variety of techniques and processess though, and isn't even specifically referring to Parma-style cheese anymore.

[Sonlirain]

That's actually a probleatic thing in case of reginal products.
If i have a tasty product like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscypek and want to esport it into the US the last thing i want is americans making cheap knockoffs that tase off smell off and are likely to make people unintrested in my product after eating a knockoff that pretends being the REAL DEAL.

Of course my example is a lesser known product but you probably get the idea.
I just guess someone registered Feta Mozzarella ETC. as regional products and they are now "protected" by EU law.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

I'm gonna register rational thought as a regional product of my head. Everyone pay me the monies.

[GlyphGryph]

If i have a tasty product like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscypek and want to esport it into the US the last thing i want is americans making cheap knockoffs that tase off smell off and are likely to make people unintrested in my product after eating a knockoff that pretends being the REAL DEAL.

Except what if it is made in the same way and has the same taste/smell/etc. and doesn't claim to be from your group, people, or place, then it... is the "real deal", and why should you get to stop them? Why should someone from your region be able to make and sell the SAME knock-off and consider it "real"?

Why should America actually care what you want?

(The US has it's own laws governing things like false advertising, so if it was honest-to-goodness trying to pass itself off as another product they should rightly be taken to court over it. But this is under the American definition of "product")

[scrdest]

That's actually a probleatic thing in case of reginal products.
If i have a tasty product like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscypek and want to esport it into the US the last thing i want is americans making cheap knockoffs that tase off smell off and are likely to make people unintrested in my product after eating a knockoff that pretends being the REAL DEAL.

Of course my example is a lesser known product but you probably get the idea.
I just guess someone registered Feta Mozzarella ETC. as regional products and they are now "protected" by EU law.

Funny, Oscypek is what I mentioned in the thread this one has grown out of. Thing is, cheap knockoffs are made even here where they come from, and I would even say are more ubiquitous than the real deal.

[10ebbor10]

Yeez, people are making a lot of fuzz about cheese. Really, it's just cheese.

There are much worse things in the trading agreement, especially for Europe. American corporations get to import hormone treated beef and other products technically prohibited in Europe, they get to sue governements for complaining about that, SOPA and PIPA are in the agreement as well and stuff like that.

[XXSockXX]

The EU is pursuing it because they believe they can make money off it.

Actually it really is simply protectionism to protect local industries. But as we mentioned in the other thread, the implementation is problematic in many examples.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

It would be a little like someone claiming a sandwich made primarily from a roll sliced in half and an inside made from a cooked disc of cow meat.

Now if you're talking a trademarked business name, such as Burger King, there are established legal remedies for other people using the name Burger King. Perhaps they're arguing that Parma in some way owns the term Parmesan as it relates to business trademarks, but in that case shouldn't everyone call it something other than London Broil? Should a pub in England be forbidden from mixing something called a Manhattan?

How about all these?

[GlyphGryph]

The EU is pursuing it because they believe they can make money off it.

Actually it really is simply protectionism to protect local industries. But as we mentioned in the other thread, the implementation is problematic in many examples.

Which is all equally terrible, and I think the whole thing is terrible, it's just that the American's want to spend more time railing about the terrible stuff that will effect us.

Also, SOPA and PIPA are entirely the fault of Europe, you bastards, since you are the ones who were originally pushing for all that shit and convinced the US it was a good idea. >_< (Admittedly, that was a while ago, but still! Phoo to you!)

[XXSockXX]

How about all these?

These are just recipes. It's not just about place names, like in Wiener Schnitzel (a schnitzel prepared in the Viennese way), but place of origin, like Champagne is made out of certain grapes in Champagne.