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Author Topic: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions  (Read 12104 times)

IndigoFenix

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2014, 06:33:45 pm »

EDIT: Fixed it.  Note that small items such as ammo, when melted in the arc furnace, will be completely destroyed, since the arc furnace does not save up melted items.
Thank you
Please check musical instruments

Ah, I see... any items that have a subtype but not a raw-defined material size are causing problems.
Rewrote that part of the code.  It should work properly now.

Giimer

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2014, 03:03:15 am »

I do not see new problems. Thank you.
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HitmanPAC

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2014, 10:29:24 am »

So, I'm trying to design a good factory floor before I get all into things - I've gotten frustrated with trying to get an Arc Furnace running, might want to consider a different, less efficient way to purify ore. Having the ore processor seems like it would fit - The arc furnace advantage is it's automatic.

I'm looking at the Minecart loader, and you say in the manual that it loads items on TOP of the loader ie. 9 squares. This is kinda irritating, because I can't think of a way to get items onto it without using an intervening dwarf - it can't share the same space as an output tile. This kills my idea of a safe, separate factory floor that my gnomes never step into unless it's to change settings.

A couple more things: What happens to the stone in the Arc Furnace? The ore processor separates the ore into pure ore and stone, i believe, though at what ratio I don't know. Assuming it just gets rid of it, couldn't you add a second output to the arc furnace that pushes out the stone?

Also, is it possible to have two (or three) inputs to one factory? That would make tightly packed machines easier to arrange.

I'm loving this mod! Personally, I don't really care about my druid score - I just want to automate everything! I can do that as long as I ignore the animal training areas, right, using only clockwork? Also, if the Arc Furnace incinerates all invaders, would one or two input tiles connected to furnaces completely destroy any invasion, regardless of trap evasion/armor? Not that that's a change from normal dwarf fortress, lol, but would invaders even react to the troops ahead of them getting sucked into giant fiery machines of death?

Finally, if I wanted to try adding workshops from Masterwork into Gnome, how would I go about doing that? I'm assuming the lack of stonecrafter shops is intentional, but it makes getting some of the trap components much harder to get, since you need a working furnace, so I'd like to add it in, see if it makes things too easy.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2014, 12:39:14 pm »

So, I'm trying to design a good factory floor before I get all into things - I've gotten frustrated with trying to get an Arc Furnace running, might want to consider a different, less efficient way to purify ore. Having the ore processor seems like it would fit - The arc furnace advantage is it's automatic.

I'm looking at the Minecart loader, and you say in the manual that it loads items on TOP of the loader ie. 9 squares. This is kinda irritating, because I can't think of a way to get items onto it without using an intervening dwarf - it can't share the same space as an output tile. This kills my idea of a safe, separate factory floor that my gnomes never step into unless it's to change settings.

A couple more things: What happens to the stone in the Arc Furnace? The ore processor separates the ore into pure ore and stone, i believe, though at what ratio I don't know. Assuming it just gets rid of it, couldn't you add a second output to the arc furnace that pushes out the stone?

Also, is it possible to have two (or three) inputs to one factory? That would make tightly packed machines easier to arrange.

I'm loving this mod! Personally, I don't really care about my druid score - I just want to automate everything! I can do that as long as I ignore the animal training areas, right, using only clockwork? Also, if the Arc Furnace incinerates all invaders, would one or two input tiles connected to furnaces completely destroy any invasion, regardless of trap evasion/armor? Not that that's a change from normal dwarf fortress, lol, but would invaders even react to the troops ahead of them getting sucked into giant fiery machines of death?

Finally, if I wanted to try adding workshops from Masterwork into Gnome, how would I go about doing that? I'm assuming the lack of stonecrafter shops is intentional, but it makes getting some of the trap components much harder to get, since you need a working furnace, so I'd like to add it in, see if it makes things too easy.

Okay, first off: items produced by factories are not placed onto the output tile itself - they are placed on the empty space OPPOSITE the output tile (think of the machine output building as a pipe leading out of the factory it is connected to).  This means that you can chain factories together by placing an input tile for a second machine in that empty spot: see the diagram in the manual.  The minecart loader is actually single tile building; it's main function is to do exactly what you suggested, to make a factory area where the input and the output are both handled entirely by automatic minecart systems.

So basically, you'd have the following setup: Factory -> Output -> Minecart loader -> Minecart track.

You can have as many inputs or outputs for a factory as you want.  If there are multiple outputs, items will be distributed at random.  Multiple inputs for the item sorter will make the sorting function not work, but it can still be used to combine two separate assembly lines.  Also, when planning a design, don't forget you can power factories using gear assemblies below their center or corner tiles.  This is important if you want to create a large factory room - I almost never power factories from the side, despite the diagrams in the manual (that's just to make it clear that each machine must have a power source.)

Every machine works by 'ticking' at certain timed intervals.  During a 'tick', the machine will process items it has inside it, pull in an item (or creature) from the outside, place an item onto an adjacent minecart, or do whatever else it is the machine is designed to do.  Directing more power to the machine makes it 'tick' more frequently.

Because of this, even with a properly positioned minecart loader, it is very difficult to load items into a moving cart.  You have to either make a system that stops and starts the cart while it is adjacent to the loader, pump a huge amount of power into the loader, or simply wait until you get lucky enough to have the loader's 'tick' coincide with the moment the cart passes.

This is also the reason why relying on factories for defense is not as game-breaking as it might seem.  Although trap evasion, defense, or even the TRAPAVOID tag aren't taken into account, a factory will only kill a creature if it happens to be standing on top of it at the moment it 'ticks', and even then only if it doesn't have any other items on top of it (such as pieces of the last invader to walk into it).  Also, because of the shape of factories, it isn't possible to make a tightly-packed trap corridor using them.  At most, you can make a one-tile-wide path leading into a single machine input tile, but that won't be very effective against large groups of tightly-packed invaders.  Using cart loaders as traps is even more difficult, as it requires the invader AND the minecart to both be in the correct position at the moment the loader ticks... but it's very rewarding if you can pull it off (Endless Rollercoaster of Doom!)

Or you could try leading enemies into an Aerial Transport Device that launches them back toward their own allies.  But on the whole, while there's more potential for fun, factories just aren't as effective a defense as a good old fashioned trap corridor.

The output of an arc furnace is identical to that of the ore processor and metallurgist combined, i.e. it separates ore into stone boulders (occasionally blocks), metal bars, and slag.  Non-ore stone items placed into it come out completely unaffected (as of a recent update).  This is important if you want to create a factory that processes both ordinary stone and ore, since item sorters can't separate the two (unless you have a sorter for every kind of ore).  You can easily deal with stone by feeding all kinds of stone into the arc furnace, connecting the arc furnace's output to an item sorter that removes all bars, and sending the remainder towards a stone cutter and furniture assembler while the bars go on to the forge.

The lack of stonecrafter shops is intentional: the stonecutter machine produces 16 blocks from each boulder (as opposed to the mason's 4), and the furniture assembler requires 5 blocks for most large furniture items.  This is more efficient than the dwarf version once you get the infrastructure set up (about 3 items per boulder instead of 2) but if you were to add in the stonecrafter, which uses only 2 blocks for most items, you'd be able to turn each boulder into 8 items...kind of pushing the limit there.  Don't forget, most trap components can be made out of wood in the Carpenter's Workshop (including mechanical arms).  You'll need to get metal from the vanilla smelter to create a sawblade, but you can easily have a stonecutter/furniture maker combo pumping out stone items within your first season, especially if you bring some copper and anthracite with you.

You don't have to worry about your druid score if you're not planning on using the nature shrine or advanced animal training.

HitmanPAC

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2014, 05:07:05 pm »

Thanks! This answered all my questions. I'm sure I would have figured some out myself by just playing around, but... I'm not the most skilled or patient DF player, so I get frustrated when I can't get something to work.

In any case, I'm off to experiment!
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Avacado

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2014, 07:42:16 pm »

I can't charge a capacitor despite the building being powered. Does the building need a certain level of power, or is it timed?

e: never mind, I didn't realize I had to connect via the corners
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 07:51:30 pm by Avacado »
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Giimer

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2014, 12:18:38 am »

I've got a question about Cosmic Gear.
He accelerates and slows down time when energy is supplied?
Replaced time constant is unchanged when there is no power?
How do I know how times have changed now?
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IndigoFenix

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2014, 12:32:05 am »

I've got a question about Cosmic Gear.
He accelerates and slows down time when energy is supplied?
Replaced time constant is unchanged when there is no power?
How do I know how times have changed now?
You can check the date using one of the menus, or watch the river to see how fast it appears to be flowing.  At high power levels the difference will be very noticable.
It starts in acceleration mode, reverse the polarity to change it to slowdown mode.

Avacado

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2014, 03:39:38 pm »

Really enjoying the factory designing, but for some reason the sorting machine isn't seperating objects. I set it to Stone>>Hematite bearing rock and tossed in some test objects (Hematite ore, random stone, furnature), and each time the sorter would put the objects on the same output tile.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2014, 01:10:55 am »

Really enjoying the factory designing, but for some reason the sorting machine isn't seperating objects. I set it to Stone>>Hematite bearing rock and tossed in some test objects (Hematite ore, random stone, furnature), and each time the sorter would put the objects on the same output tile.

Odd.  You made sure to build two perpendicular output tiles, right?  Also, sometimes there are two different materials in the raws with the same name, you have to make sure that you have the correct one.  (There are two materials called 'malachite', for instance, and one of them is actually a gas).
I'll check it out though.  I know that sorting by item type works.

HitmanPAC

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2014, 02:13:08 am »

So I finally got a decent factory line set up, safe and sound on the level below my crafting workshops, and very quickly appreciated how much metal was getting sent my way! The problem is, I still don't really understand how the gizmos and what-not work, and I'm struggling to make a dynamo from scratch; I bought the assorted mechanical pieces crate at embark, and it has a bunch of stuff in it, but only enough to make one dynamo.

Since the dynamo is so critical to the gnomish factory line, and so high up the chain of 'gizmos', this is kinda a problem. While an explanation would be wonderful, I think there's an excellent opportunity here to make a flow chart that illustrates things perfectly. If you're not able, I'll try my hand - as long as I understand it all! :P

edit: Oh! I almost forgot: how do you make alloys? I haven't managed to get a thunder forge up, but I don't see an option for it in any other building.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 02:17:24 am by HitmanPAC »
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IndigoFenix

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2014, 03:11:34 am »

So I finally got a decent factory line set up, safe and sound on the level below my crafting workshops, and very quickly appreciated how much metal was getting sent my way! The problem is, I still don't really understand how the gizmos and what-not work, and I'm struggling to make a dynamo from scratch; I bought the assorted mechanical pieces crate at embark, and it has a bunch of stuff in it, but only enough to make one dynamo.

Since the dynamo is so critical to the gnomish factory line, and so high up the chain of 'gizmos', this is kinda a problem. While an explanation would be wonderful, I think there's an excellent opportunity here to make a flow chart that illustrates things perfectly. If you're not able, I'll try my hand - as long as I understand it all! :P

edit: Oh! I almost forgot: how do you make alloys? I haven't managed to get a thunder forge up, but I don't see an option for it in any other building.

You're right - some of the item crafting can be very complex.  A dynamo is created from a metal disc (trap component) and two magnetized metal bars; to get these you will need an electromagnet (made from an iron, nickel, or cobalt rod and a wire), an electrostatic generator (made with a glass disk and cloth), and a capacitor (made from a glass tube and two metal foil pieces), as well as the two iron, nickel, or cobalt bars themselves.  You can find most of these items in crates, but they're fairly expensive and the items you get in them are random.

I should make a flow chart.

The automatic factories can't make alloys currently.  Gnomes can make steel in the regular smelter, but most alloys are closed off to them.  I guess I should add options for at the very least producing the simpler stuff like bronze or brass.

Giimer

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2014, 04:16:57 am »

I decided to wear armor civil gnomes.

for masters
Clockwork Armor+Automatic Trousers+Handy Hat

for haulers

Clockwork Armor+Automatic Trousers+Roller Skates or Rocket Boots+Clockwork Helmet or Clockborg Brainjack

additionally
Smart Guard
any mittens
hoods

This is the right equipment? Or is it better to put them otherwise?
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IndigoFenix

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2014, 05:28:56 am »

I decided to wear armor civil gnomes.

for masters
Clockwork Armor+Automatic Trousers+Handy Hat

for haulers

Clockwork Armor+Automatic Trousers+Roller Skates or Rocket Boots+Clockwork Helmet or Clockborg Brainjack

additionally
Smart Guard
any mittens
hoods

This is the right equipment? Or is it better to put them otherwise?

Well, why don't you try it and see how it turns out?  :)
Most of the special equipment hasn't been tested for balance... it could be anywhere from near-useless to game-breakingly effective.  I'm relying on feedback to determine which.

Giimer

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Re: [GNOME] - Gameplay Questions
« Reply #59 on: April 01, 2014, 12:41:39 am »

Riukus asks

Quote
Can you explain, how Clockborg Brainjack and Automatic Trousers work? When Automatic Trousers equip they complete all work or not? And gnomes what used Clockborg Brainjack and lost their brains become something like zombie and lose thoughts? It hard to simulate situation then it happend.
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