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[mastahcheese]

Ok, this is getting really out of hand.

PFP

REQUESTING REPLACEMENT
If you want to throw insults at someone, I'm sure the next player will be happy to take them. I, however, will restrict myself to running games, where people aren't going to insult me regularly. Enjoy your game.

Sorry for lacking presence D:
> Calm down...and take the situation as a note against what is presented--and not against your whole being.
*hugs* ;__;

^This.

Also, TDS, why are you trying to tell me what I should tell other people? You're serving no purpose with that except to put in the illusion that you're paying better attention than anyone else, which is rather insulting to everyone.
And no, your logic makes little to no sense, as clearly evidenced by 4mask. You act like you're saying "here is what I would do if I were scum, see how that's not me?"
Please go see the first BM I was in, this is exactly how makeinu acted, and when I called him out on it, he did the same thing you're doing now, by insulting the logical capacity of the questioner. Not to mention how you're frequently changing the subject when it would be trivial to mesh it together in a far more readable and manageable way.
So no, you're acting in an inexcusably scummy fashion.

[TheDarkStar]

Ok, this is getting really out of hand.

PFP

REQUESTING REPLACEMENT
If you want to throw insults at someone, I'm sure the next player will be happy to take them. I, however, will restrict myself to running games, where people aren't going to insult me regularly. Enjoy your game.

Sorry for lacking presence D:
> Calm down...and take the situation as a note against what is presented--and not against your whole being.
*hugs* ;__;

^This.

Also, TDS, why are you trying to tell me what I should tell other people? You're serving no purpose with that except to put in the illusion that you're paying better attention than anyone else, which is rather insulting to everyone.
And no, your logic makes little to no sense, as clearly evidenced by 4mask. You act like you're saying "here is what I would do if I were scum, see how that's not me?"
Please go see the first BM I was in, this is exactly how makeinu acted, and when I called him out on it, he did the same thing you're doing now, by insulting the logical capacity of the questioner. Not to mention how you're frequently changing the subject when it would be trivial to mesh it together in a far more readable and manageable way.
So no, you're acting in an inexcusably scummy fashion.

Well, I accidentally deleted my post.

mastacheese: The question about everyone was directed to everyone. I missed putting Everyone: in bold above it, though. Next, what about my other logic, especially the logic that questions 4maskwolf?

4maskwolf:

First off, sorry, 4maskwolf for the insults. Those were not necessary. I'll try to avoid that in the future.

To respond to your numbered complaints:

0. Sorry.
1. Tiruin was entirely gone for the first part of that game because she wasn't there to post. Also, you're comparing yourself to people from other games while I'm comparing you to people from this game.
2. I found that post, and it had one question about why Persus chose the four people he did to talk about and three statements. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136649.msg5052110#msg5052110)
3. LARD voting for him as Solymr indicates that LARD is not scum even more strongly. It's either the worst bus ever or LARD is not actually scum.
4. I still can't figure out what you are saying here. Your logic is that I have an argument against them (true in DP's case; not true in LARD's case) and so I decided to vote for you. Could you explain this a bit better?
5. If you didn't notice, I went after Persus with several questions. Also, just because you're inexperienced doesn't mean you're not scum; I was scum in the first two or three games I played.
6. There's other stuff, too, like mastahcheese's extensive scumhunting on him that revealed nothing, and the way he acted against EHF.
7. Yeah, but that doesn't make you seem town if you want to avoid looking suspicious.
8. I actually have a paragraph there indicating why I think you are scum; Solymr's and EHF's reads were mostly an afterthought. Also, I'd appreciate it if you would answer my questions rather than skip over them.
9. I'm pretty sure that's not what I've been advocating. If you're not scum, then DP probably is, because nothing else makes sense. That does not fit at all with your claim of my wanting to keep him alive to LyLo - we'll be at but not past Lylo two lynches from now, barring jailkeeper action.

I'm wondering why you're not refuting a bunch of my points; instead, a bunch of your points are mostly insults attacking me and calling me a liar. My vote is staying where it is for now.

Everyone: (labeled this time)

What do you think of my points against 4maskwolf?

[4maskwolf]

Ok, this is getting really out of hand.

PFP

REQUESTING REPLACEMENT
If you want to throw insults at someone, I'm sure the next player will be happy to take them. I, however, will restrict myself to running games, where people aren't going to insult me regularly. Enjoy your game.

Sorry for lacking presence D:
> Calm down...and take the situation as a note against what is presented--and not against your whole being.
*hugs* ;__;

^This.

Also, TDS, why are you trying to tell me what I should tell other people? You're serving no purpose with that except to put in the illusion that you're paying better attention than anyone else, which is rather insulting to everyone.
And no, your logic makes little to no sense, as clearly evidenced by 4mask. You act like you're saying "here is what I would do if I were scum, see how that's not me?"
Please go see the first BM I was in, this is exactly how makeinu acted, and when I called him out on it, he did the same thing you're doing now, by insulting the logical capacity of the questioner. Not to mention how you're frequently changing the subject when it would be trivial to mesh it together in a far more readable and manageable way.
So no, you're acting in an inexcusably scummy fashion.

Well, I accidentally deleted my post.

mastacheese: The question about everyone was directed to everyone. I missed putting Everyone: in bold above it, though. Next, what about my other logic, especially the logic that questions 4maskwolf?

4maskwolf:

First off, sorry, 4maskwolf for the insults. Those were not necessary. I'll try to avoid that in the future.

To respond to your numbered complaints:

0. Sorry.
1. Tiruin was entirely gone for the first part of that game because she wasn't there to post. Also, you're comparing yourself to people from other games while I'm comparing you to people from this game.
2. I found that post, and it had one question about why Persus chose the four people he did to talk about and three statements. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136649.msg5052110#msg5052110)
3. LARD voting for him as Solymr indicates that LARD is not scum even more strongly. It's either the worst bus ever or LARD is not actually scum.
4. I still can't figure out what you are saying here. Your logic is that I have an argument against them (true in DP's case; not true in LARD's case) and so I decided to vote for you. Could you explain this a bit better?
5. If you didn't notice, I went after Persus with several questions. Also, just because you're inexperienced doesn't mean you're not scum; I was scum in the first two or three games I played.
6. There's other stuff, too, like mastahcheese's extensive scumhunting on him that revealed nothing, and the way he acted against EHF.
7. Yeah, but that doesn't make you seem town if you want to avoid looking suspicious.
8. I actually have a paragraph there indicating why I think you are scum; Solymr's and EHF's reads were mostly an afterthought. Also, I'd appreciate it if you would answer my questions rather than skip over them.
9. I'm pretty sure that's not what I've been advocating. If you're not scum, then DP probably is, because nothing else makes sense. That does not fit at all with your claim of my wanting to keep him alive to LyLo - we'll be at but not past Lylo two lynches from now, barring jailkeeper action.

I'm wondering why you're not refuting a bunch of my points; instead, a bunch of your points are mostly insults attacking me and calling me a liar. My vote is staying where it is for now.

Everyone: (labeled this time)

What do you think of my points against 4maskwolf?

1. Duly noted.  I already explained why I was not active, now it is up to you to decide if that is acceptable to you.
2. You fail to actually acknowledge the reasons stated in the post, scumbiscuit.
3. I agree that LARD is not scum.  I realized that after a little bit of observation.  However, I was actually pointing out that you did NOT lead the lynch on Solymr/EHF like you claimed.  You lied.
4. You tried to take a chance to eliminate me with bullshit logic instead of the others because you can save them for a later lynch, scumbiscuit.  Stop playing dumb.
5. I never made that claim, scumbiscuit.  I was scum in my second game, if you don't remember.
6. Even then, never discount anyone as scum.  People learned this with me last game.
7. But I don't want to avoid it because I am TOWN.  Only scum players need to avoid suspicion.
8. I have given answers to every single one of them.  Lazy, lazy, lazy, and lazy.  Perhaps you should, you know, READ what people say before jumping the shark, scumbiscuit.
9. Obviously either a well-thought out town plan or a poorly thought out scum plan, scumbiscuit.  Try again at making yourself seem town, because that didn't work.

[4maskwolf]

I am posting because Jimbot McGooligan has denied my replacement request.

[LARD]

Tiruin I am so sorry. Sorry for everything.


Quite important
Thank you for acknowledging that I am most likely not scum. It would have been an absolutely awful move for me to bus solymr when nobody else suspected him.

The final scum should, therefore, be a new player, for the following reasons.
1. killed Tiruin, perhaps to try to put the blame on me. It would have been a far better idea to kill me and then try to blame it on Tiruin, as I was the scumhunter of Solymr/EHF
2. It would have been a better idea still to kill mastahcheese or Graknorke because then the next day Tiruin and I would have probably gotten one of each other lynched, as we're both town.
3. If one of Graknorke or Mastahcheese had been mafia, they would probably have attacked the other and blamed it on someone trying to put the blame on them. It would have been pretty easy.

So I will throw down my gauntlet. The final mafia is either 4maskwolf or TDS because they immediately jumped on me, which would fit right in with the mafia's plan.  (The plan was short-sighted and didn't realize that I would be somewhat in the clear) I would have said TDS, but he's responding to questions as if he's giving information, so 4maskwolf seems a bit more likely.

[LARD]

I am posting because Jimbot McGooligan has denied my replacement request.

Please don't go, the drones need you.

[LARD]

Please don't call him scumbiscuit. It is derogatory to biscuits by linking them with scum, and derogatory to TDS to link both to him. 
I think that if we are on the internet, we have to play by the internet's assumptions, which are that we cannot see the other person and therefore we have a harder time understanding them. By this, I mean that you cannot hate someone who you understand completely, and if it isn't their fault that you don't understand them, but the internet's, we shouldn't be getting into these sort of insult matches.  Besides, this is a "relatively" friendly forum.

[4maskwolf]

Please don't call him scumbiscuit. It is derogatory to biscuits by linking them with scum, and derogatory to TDS to link both to him. 
I think that if we are on the internet, we have to play by the internet's assumptions, which are that we cannot see the other person and therefore we have a harder time understanding them. By this, I mean that you cannot hate someone who you understand completely, and if it isn't their fault that you don't understand them, but the internet's, we shouldn't be getting into these sort of insult matches.  Besides, this is a "relatively" friendly forum.

Actually, I used the phrase "scumbiscuit" because I couldn't remember the standardized scum insult (scumbucket).  It isn't even really an insult so much as a more forceful way of calling someone scum.  At least, that's the way I was using it.

You seem to have thought long and hard who should have been NK'ed, LARD.  I will take what you say into consideration, but all that it does is support my case on TDS even more.  He launched the first blow because he though he could rely on the support of the town to accomplish the lynch.  However, if what you say is true, and if your analysis is correct:
Lynch one, then lynch the other if the first one is not scum.
You can trust that under the circumstances you describe, if indeed it is obvious that one of us is scum, my advice will hold true.
So, LARD, who do you want to lynch first?

[LARD]

I'm not sure.  Popular opinion seems to be going for TDS, but I'm not sure yet. I have yet to go over the little altercation that just happened.

Graknorke   You wanted me to answer Tiruin's questions, right? I don't know if they are relevant, but I thought I answered them all, and she just misunderstood my answers.  If there are a few specific ones you want answered, I'll try.

[Graknorke]

Everyone: (labeled this time)

What do you think of my points against 4maskwolf?

I think that 4mask's points are better than yours. Since I thought you were pretty scummy anyway, and now the way you're behaving is more suspect than 4mask.

So I will throw down my gauntlet. The final mafia is either 4maskwolf or TDS because they immediately jumped on me, which would fit right in with the mafia's plan.  (The plan was short-sighted and didn't realize that I would be somewhat in the clear) I would have said TDS, but he's responding to questions as if he's giving information, so 4maskwolf seems a bit more likely.

However, if what you say is true, and if your analysis is correct:
Lynch one, then lynch the other if the first one is not scum.

This sounds like a bad idea. If we go through with that we could easily be down to lylo without anything getting done. It's a big assumption to base the success of the game on. Maybe if it comes down to that by the end of the day, but I really am not comfortable with a decision like that now.

Graknorke   You wanted me to answer Tiruin's questions, right? I don't know if they are relevant, but I thought I answered them all, and she just misunderstood my answers.  If there are a few specific ones you want answered, I'll try.

tiruin is still my second guess at scum btw, for the following reasons.
1. pursuing and voting me over seemingly (to me) trivial stuff.
2. voting and unvoting highfive very fast when she kept a pressure vote on me for most of early game.
3. Doesn't seem to be paying very much attention to the game
4. Voting and unvoting highfive when he is probably the most obviously suspicious. If she had kept her vote on me that would be one thing. But all this indecisiveness is not a good sign.

Because those don't seem to connect on why you did such in regard to the above stated. I voted highfive, and when I received his reply-it jived with what I believed was a good reason through his wording-and checked back on the matter at hand. My shift of vote does not dictate that I am shifty in anyway, he is still under suspect as is you all--however I saw something scummier. I wanted to gauge you out on why you're acting as such.

Have you answered my queries on those matters?
On me asking you regarding why you see such and such as something?
Because you haven't answered these questions from your most recent reply after that post, here. While I laud your idea for calling on the general populace, I'd like you to first stand for yourself and not call on the crowd mentality.
You still did not answer:
> How are those things trivial.
= You keep pointing at them and quoting them, but I can't see any direct point as to why they are trivial.
> You did not outline or bother to answer #2.
> Nor #3. No backing at all.
> ...Or #4. While I could assume an answer from that post there, I don't see any directness in regard to it.

I eagerly await your reply.

She asked these just before day end and you never answered.

[LARD]

The questions were just about why I suspected her.

The post after the one she quoted has my main reason in it. Those were just a few small bits.  I was really uncomfortable with how she asked me again and again about my gamestarter pursuit of 4mask. That's my reason for #3. The fact that it was a gamestarter was why I called it trivial. But I apologize to Tiruin for saying she wasn't paying attention, that was uncalled for.

My main reason for suspecting her, as I said, was that she seemed to be deliberately misunderstanding and confusing me and I thought that meant I was on the right track.

I also agree that

The final scum should, therefore, be a new player, for the following reasons.
1. killed Tiruin, perhaps to try to put the blame on me. It would have been a far better idea to kill me and then try to blame it on Tiruin, as I was the scumhunter of Solymr/EHF
2. It would have been a better idea still to kill mastahcheese or Graknorke because then the next day Tiruin and I would have probably gotten one of each other lynched, as we're both town.
3. If one of Graknorke or Mastahcheese had been mafia, they would probably have attacked the other and blamed it on someone trying to put the blame on them. It would have been pretty easy.

So I will throw down my gauntlet. The final mafia is either 4maskwolf or TDS because they immediately jumped on me, which would fit right in with the mafia's plan.  (The plan was short-sighted and didn't realize that I would be somewhat in the clear) I would have said TDS, but he's responding to questions as if he's giving information, so 4maskwolf seems a bit more likely.

This is not a good idea to lynch one and then the other.  I just find that this is the most likely explanation of what happened.  The argument between 4mask and TDS also made it a bit clearer that one of them, at least, is panicking.

[TheDarkStar]

This does not necessarily have to end up at LyLo if I am wrong; there's either a rolecop or a jailor here somewhere; having either one pushes back LyLo by at least another day.

[Jim Groovester]

I am posting because Jimbot McGooligan has denied my replacement request.

I did no such thing. I tried to talk you out of it. As it is noted in the rules, if you request a replacement for reasons other than not having enough time to play, we may try to talk you out of it.

If you confirmed your desire to be replaced out, I would have granted it, as I am doing now.

[darkpaladin109]

Darkpaladin109, what implications do you see in Solymr/epichighfive having been scum all along? Is there anything significant about it being Tiruin who was killed?

No idea. Sorry.

[4maskwolf]

I am posting because Jimbot McGooligan has denied my replacement request.

I did no such thing. I tried to talk you out of it. As it is noted in the rules, if you request a replacement for reasons other than not having enough time to play, we may try to talk you out of it.

If you confirmed your desire to be replaced out, I would have granted it, as I am doing now.

I've decided to play, I guess.  We don't have an easy replacement at the time.  I'll stay...