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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Game Over! Town win!  (Read 77899 times)

TheDarkStar

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #180 on: March 04, 2014, 10:29:20 pm »

Tiruin - Despite voting for me I'm gonna say he's a stand up guy, neutral lean, I think aggressiveness means he thinks I'm scum, It's not hard to tell.
*She. :P

Graknorke - No reason at all to believe scum
Mastahcheese - Fairly neutral, if anything I agree with Graknorke and he is leaning townie
Despite their dueling you see no difference in either?
...I didn't check behind that much-though will do later due to busy-ness.


Persus - I don't think he is giving false tips or helping us falsely, but I do think he seems to give off a scum vibe, with his position as IC I don't think anyone would look to him.
Isn't this against what you said earlier? That, and implied, he would teach by being dastardly scum?
If a vibe-what set it off? Brevity?
His position as an IC has no difference from your position as a player--it is a term people like alluding to because we are known to be experienced, yet we still learn from you as you learn from us.
I fail to see the mystique of the IC.
Sorry, I clearly was unable to tell your gender.

Are you going to respond to the other 6 questions and comments?
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Epichighfive321

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #181 on: March 04, 2014, 10:37:26 pm »

I will, but I think I'm gonna call it a night for now, gonna get up in the morning and post again.
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LARD

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #182 on: March 04, 2014, 10:39:14 pm »

Whoa whoa whoa, let's not have another dogpile on the highfive. I will keep my vote on him because I thought his predecessor was scum. He's acting really scummy, by voting me, the instigator of his vote. By doing that he is just playing like the people I normally play with. (almost completely irrational) He's just a bit unfamiliar with the way we do things. Poor guy. But a dogpile is a very telling thing.  The one on me provided me with a lot of information and the one on the highfive will probably be just as telling. I just think these large opinion swings are hilarious and should be encouraged, as long as people stay rational.

By the way, any of you who worry that I'm taking things personally by the personal way in which I respond to things, for example, "how politely condescending of you" It's just my way of adding colour to a game and bringing friendly banter into things. Why is everybody so serious?

Graknorkeand MastacheeseI did respond to you and gave you my reads on you. You seem to be legitimately scum hunting and I kind of trust that. The only thing that worries me is that when my brother and I are both spies/mafia in our games, we argue with each other vehemently. I don't know how that plays in
All my other reads from here still stand


As for my reads,
Tiruin: Quite scummy. Voted me on first post with very little explanation. Perhaps that means she is dropping hints in order not to destroy us too bad, maybe she is busy and under strain, or maybe just a pressure vote. Pressure vote seems unlikely do to lack of reasons.
Graknorke: I don't have a very good read on him because he's more experienced, seems to be legitimately fishing very hard for information though. I'm sorry about you needing to pressure me. town lean, and I'm not just saying that to get you on my side.
TDS:
Solymr You are not fishing very hard for information, seem unacceptably ambiguous,
LARD: pretty much everything he says points to scum.
, and above reasons.

TDS Just to clarify. You point the FoS at me without voting on me. I find that you did not jump on my dogpile scummy because I seemed to be the only one you had suspicions of since your pressure vote on persus. It seemed as if you didn't want to be seen to be guilty of dogpiling. You're not that scummy to me right now, I think in my head I was getting you mixed up with solymr. Sorry. You should use your vote though. For kicks, you could join our party on the replacement. :)

Tiruin Ah yes. I want to get the little weird confusion about my gamestarter question out of the way. The point was that the information gleaned from the question could only be used by the mafia ever. Very rarely could the mafia use it, as you maintain but the village could never use it.  Please don't bring it up again as I have explained all that I think I can. It was a gamestarter and never was very valuable except that it led to a telling mass suspicion on me. As for you going easy on us, that was just a hypothesis and a pressure question. I don't understand why you were voting me though, could you explain.

4maskwolfIt wasn't a clever trap, but I appreciate the sentiment.

I will not join everybody in pursuing epichighfive (I didn't know if that was necessary because of sub) in terms of questions. It seems like he has enough to answer for from everybody else. I think he is scum because his predecessor was suspicious. He is also incredibly suspicious and probably won't last long, but as I said, everybody else is battering him, so I won't, except for the fact that he went straight from voting me to neutral.

Sorry for lack of quotes, but when I read I find them very mind numbing. I hope everything is clear.
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mastahcheese

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #183 on: March 04, 2014, 10:42:39 pm »

Can I get everyone's reads?

Solymr Epichighfive321- Didn't get much out of Soly, Highfive has some pretty poorly explained actions. Leaning scum.
Graknorke - I'm pretty convinced he's scum, just the way he's been acting does not seem town to me at all.
4maskwolf - Good play, town lean.
LARD - I really don't know what to make of him, he just doesn't make much sense to me. Slight scum lean, more WTF than anything.
darkpaladin109 - He hasn't really been here that much. Lurker lean.
TheDarkStar - I haven't seen anything to trip an alarm. Neutral.
Persus13 - I think he's town, he responding well, and being active. Slight Town lean.
Tiruin - Not really enough to go from, right now. Neutral.

Grak
[1]I notice now that I put a negative in there that shouldn't be, but you probably noticed that. Otherwise, what I said makes sense to me. Your original argument was along the lines of: "You said you had "slipped up" earlier, and this is a phrase used in Mafia to refer to showing scumtells. You claim that you said it in a more general definition referring to mistakes and that it could also apply to town, however I do not think that is the case. When you said 'without the added pressure of being scum', *that could have been a scum move to make you appear town*."
I then said that sort of reasoning (between the asterisks) encourages WIFOM and isn't helpful, and you agreed. So I don't see how you can still say you've proved that I wasn't referring to mistakes as a townie?
[2]No, it was hyperbole. But the level of insistence on me further explaining makes it seem like you want more than a simple explanation. But of course this is going to be influenced by the fact that I wrote what you're asking about in the first place and of course I know what I meant.
[3]Complacent - Torn between 4mask and TDS. Both ask questions, but oftentimes they hold back on more incriminating questions to instead go for someone else. For example, in TDS' most recent post, he's written much worse about me than about LARD, yet is FoSing LARD. It's as if rather than pursuing what looks scummiest, he already thinks he's found the scum, despite an earlier post saying that LARD doesn't look scummy (where he did an unvote, so I suppose he must have voted once). If I were to make an accusation on this, it'd be that he was picking easy targets, but I haven't actually asked about that.
Then 4mask is being mostly reactionary. He recently complained that nobody was asking him questions, despite there being plenty of places in the conversations where he could interject and share what he thinks. He also has a vote down so it seems like he also is unwaveringly sure that he's found scum.
To get back on LARD I'd probably start with inquiring about his current vote. Were he scum, he would know that he was voting for a townie so I suspect that the reasoning would not be as watertight as actual suspicion.
[4]I was sort of thinking abut that 'trap' LARD made early on in the game, with 4mask fell for. But the context I tried to use it in was way out, as was the way in which I did it. Doing something like that didn't even make sense in the context.

[bold]I didn't mean editing the post, but checking over what I've written before I post it. Trimming anything superfluous, keeping the tone at a reasonable level, that sort of thing. I'm just not entirely sure whether that's a good or a bad thing.
[1] Are you intentionally missing the point of the argument? The point was that you claimed your response was based on town, when the question I asked, the one you responded too, was entirely about scum. So no, that's not regarding town at all. This is about the third time I've clarified this, and you continue to change the subject.
[bold] Well, if that's what you meant then that's up to you.

Epichighfive321
Alright I guess here are my reads

EpicHighFive321 - Me
Graknorke - No reason at all to believe scum
Mastahcheese - Fairly neutral, if anything I agree with Graknorke and he is leaning townie
4maskwolf - Seems to be inquiring for quite a bit of information, I guess I would lean neutral or town
LARD - Mostly neutral but I'm not quite sure
Darkpaladin - Not posting enough to read
The Dark Star - Mostly neutral read, nothing much that I could tell
Tiruin - Despite voting for me I'm gonna say he's a stand up guy, neutral lean, I think aggressiveness means he thinks I'm scum, It's not hard to tell.
Persus - I don't think he is giving false tips or helping us falsely, but I do think he seems to give off a scum vibe, with his position as IC I don't think anyone would look to him.
Ok, look at that bolded bit.
I would be heavily suspicious of this, even if I weren't already thinking Grak to be scum. No reason at all? Whatsoever? No explanation for this? And then you follow it up with your read on me, where you're literally just mimicking him!

I'm considering switching my vote over to you for that, not to mention just leaving half a dozen questions unanswered while you go away!
This screams of scum!
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The Derail Thread

TheDarkStar

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #184 on: March 04, 2014, 10:52:07 pm »

Here's my Solymr and Epichighfive case:

Alright, I am kinda new towards this game, but I think my logic was a bit faulty when selecting LARD, so UNVOTE LARD. I really only selected him because I didn't know how much time was left in the day and saw another player's argument in why he was voted. After some thinking, I have decided to go with Persus13. Like what LARD said before, you seem to put yourself in a mentor position above us. I think this is a good enough reason.

So, you admit to voting for someone because someone else did. Also, it's interesting to note that Solymr did the exact same thing you did: Claim that LARD is scummy for no reason, and then backs off when pressured.

Like this:

LARD: pretty much everything he says points to scum.
After reading the preceding posts, I'm gonna go ahead and go with LARD.

Persus - I don't think he is giving false tips or helping us falsely, but I do think he seems to give off a scum vibe, with his position as IC I don't think anyone would look to him.

What makes you think this? Please, give quotes of what Persus13 has said and explain how they make him seem scummy to you.

It would help if you would post a bit more frequently, too - you have about 5 posts, and Solymr has another 5.

PPE: Looks like I got ninja'd by lots of people about EHF. Actually, I'd be very surprised if both LARD and EHF were town.
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4maskwolf

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #185 on: March 04, 2014, 10:54:03 pm »

Whoa whoa whoa, let's not have another dogpile on the highfive. I will keep my vote on him because I thought his predecessor was scum. He's acting really scummy, by voting me, the instigator of his vote. By doing that he is just playing like the people I normally play with. (almost completely irrational) He's just a bit unfamiliar with the way we do things. Poor guy. But a dogpile is a very telling thing.  The one on me provided me with a lot of information and the one on the highfive will probably be just as telling. I just think these large opinion swings are hilarious and should be encouraged, as long as people stay rational.

By the way, any of you who worry that I'm taking things personally by the personal way in which I respond to things, for example, "how politely condescending of you" It's just my way of adding colour to a game and bringing friendly banter into things. Why is everybody so serious?

Graknorkeand MastacheeseI did respond to you and gave you my reads on you. You seem to be legitimately scum hunting and I kind of trust that. The only thing that worries me is that when my brother and I are both spies/mafia in our games, we argue with each other vehemently. I don't know how that plays in
All my other reads from here still stand


As for my reads,
Tiruin: Quite scummy. Voted me on first post with very little explanation. Perhaps that means she is dropping hints in order not to destroy us too bad, maybe she is busy and under strain, or maybe just a pressure vote. Pressure vote seems unlikely do to lack of reasons.
Graknorke: I don't have a very good read on him because he's more experienced, seems to be legitimately fishing very hard for information though. I'm sorry about you needing to pressure me. town lean, and I'm not just saying that to get you on my side.
TDS:
Solymr You are not fishing very hard for information, seem unacceptably ambiguous,
LARD: pretty much everything he says points to scum.
, and above reasons.

TDS Just to clarify. You point the FoS at me without voting on me. I find that you did not jump on my dogpile scummy because I seemed to be the only one you had suspicions of since your pressure vote on persus. It seemed as if you didn't want to be seen to be guilty of dogpiling. You're not that scummy to me right now, I think in my head I was getting you mixed up with solymr. Sorry. You should use your vote though. For kicks, you could join our party on the replacement. :)

Tiruin Ah yes. I want to get the little weird confusion about my gamestarter question out of the way. The point was that the information gleaned from the question could only be used by the mafia ever. Very rarely could the mafia use it, as you maintain but the village could never use it.  Please don't bring it up again as I have explained all that I think I can. It was a gamestarter and never was very valuable except that it led to a telling mass suspicion on me. As for you going easy on us, that was just a hypothesis and a pressure question. I don't understand why you were voting me though, could you explain.

4maskwolfIt wasn't a clever trap, but I appreciate the sentiment.

I will not join everybody in pursuing epichighfive (I didn't know if that was necessary because of sub) in terms of questions. It seems like he has enough to answer for from everybody else. I think he is scum because his predecessor was suspicious. He is also incredibly suspicious and probably won't last long, but as I said, everybody else is battering him, so I won't, except for the fact that he went straight from voting me to neutral.

Sorry for lack of quotes, but when I read I find them very mind numbing. I hope everything is clear.
Hello LARD.
Time for me to go into lecture mode.
Alright, first of all, jokes are rarely noticed as such.  Emoticons or [joke][/joke] makes it very clear that what you say is a joke.  I have learned this recently, when something I thought was an obvious joke was misinterpereted as a scumtell.  But with that aside, do note that most people play mafia VERY seriously, to the point that I've seen some comments in the older games from '09 with comments that verge on personal attacks.  Just remember that.

On another note, I move to establish an idle banter thread on this subform.  All in favor?

TheDarkStar

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #186 on: March 04, 2014, 11:05:44 pm »

On another note, I move to establish an idle banter thread on this subform.  All in favor?
Yeah, it's probably a good idea to have a place to put all mafia-related comments that are unrelated to the current game.
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mastahcheese

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #187 on: March 04, 2014, 11:08:23 pm »

On another note, I move to establish an idle banter thread on this subform.  All in favor?
Yeah, it's probably a good idea to have a place to put all mafia-related comments that are unrelated to the current game.
I'll support this as well. It gets crazy at times.
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The Derail Thread

4maskwolf

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #188 on: March 04, 2014, 11:38:33 pm »

Also, a lurker tracker update for those of you who care:

4maskwolf: 23
darkpaladin109: 5
Graknorke: 32
LARD: 8
Mastahcheese: 16
Persus13: 12
Solymr/epichighfive321: 4/10
TheDarkStar: 19
Tiruin: 17

Jim Groovester

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #189 on: March 05, 2014, 01:01:16 am »

Day 1 Continues...

[1] LARD: Graknorke
[1] darkpaladin109: Persus13
[1] Graknorke: mastahcheese
[3] Epichighfive321: LARD, Tiruin, TheDarkStar
[1] Persus13: Epichighfive321



Day 1 will end Thursday 12:00 PM MST in approximately 37 hours.
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Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #190 on: March 05, 2014, 01:23:18 am »

PFP
LARD
I will not join everybody in pursuing epichighfive (I didn't know if that was necessary because of sub) in terms of questions. It seems like he has enough to answer for from everybody else. I think he is scum because his predecessor was suspicious. He is also incredibly suspicious and probably won't last long, but as I said, everybody else is battering him, so I won't, except for the fact that he went straight from voting me to neutral.

Sorry for lack of quotes, but when I read I find them very mind numbing. I hope everything is clear.
You're talking about Solymr, yes?
Guess wot? You missed my note here asking directly about this 'incredibly suspicious' note. This being your next post, I take it you DID read what I said there given that what you address is exactly what I put, aye?

Quote
He is also incredibly suspicious and probably won't last long, but as I said, everybody else is battering him, so I won't, except for the fact that he went straight from voting me to neutral.
Do note, Mafia is serious business, and I-amongst the many players here-am blind to jokes online. Puns are clear and make me laugh, but sarcasm and jokes, especially by newbies?
Spoiler: Tolerable (click to show/hide)
But still, every event and action by a player is used.
Every.
Single.
One.
Quote
Tiruin Ah yes. I want to get the little weird confusion about my gamestarter question out of the way. The point was that the information gleaned from the question could only be used by the mafia ever. Very rarely could the mafia use it, as you maintain but the village could never use it.  Please don't bring it up again as I have explained all that I think I can.
...That this question benefits the Mafia moreso than town because town can't use these kinds of answers to their benefit?
Like..oh, say, getting the gist of how they would react?
If not--why didn't you poke Mr. Cheese about it?


Please, answer me.
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LARD

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #191 on: March 05, 2014, 10:32:36 am »

In response to Tiruin
It's fine with me if you all want to play seriously, and I'll try to play by everybody else's standards.

On your scum reads: I see a sense of personalism there. Is there anything wrong in FoS'ing you?
Know that the vote is more sticking than not--due to that personalism I see. For what reason is there for you to suspect those even poking at you? Are you on the impression that, if your role is a townie, those attacking you would suffice suspicion?
Attacking me does not in itself warrant suspicion. It is the dogpiling on an easy target that happens to be suspicious, and a half-hearted reluctant FoS on the easy target was more so.  There is no personalism here, just my play style and writing style.


Solymr was unacceptably ambiguous is accusing me. But the clearest evidence was when he pointed the FoS at me.
LARD: pretty much everything he says points to scum.
The ICs I'll wait until Day2 to get a good read.
He refused to say why and didn't go through on his "suspicions" on me by voting, as if he didn't want to seem guilty of joining a dogpile. I believe that if you had read my previous posts, you would know my reasoning. I know they are really long. Sorry. But now that he has a really suspicious and new replacement who immediately voted me, the only one who was voting him, I am even more convinced of his guilt.

As for our discussion on my "specific scenario" I don't see what else I can say. It doesn't seem like you have been reading my posts.
Quote
...That this question benefits the Mafia moreso than town because town can't use these kinds of answers to their benefit?
Like..oh, say, getting the gist of how they would react?
If not--why didn't you poke Mr. Cheese about it?

We are past the gamestarter question phase. All the questions and over-enthusiastic and undersupported arguments are now useless. I didn't follow on mastahcheese's question, a) because it is not an uncommon question. and b) because I was too busy accusing 4maskwolf.
The results of this escapade were good for the town, I think because we got to see how people would respond to a suspicious character such as myself.

What kind of explanation do you want from me? Does anybody else think I haven't explained this action thoroughly? What is Tiruin getting at? If you want a further explanation, I will try to do so, but I don't see what else I can say. If you are town, I apologize for the confusion, but if, as I think, you are highfive's scum partner, then may this confuse you even more.

I know that every lead should be followed on, and I will pose my questions to the high five later when he doesn't have as much to answer to. We run the risk of overwhelming him as it is.

Spoiler:  sarcasm (click to show/hide)

tiruin is still my second guess at scum btw, for the following reasons.
1. pursuing and voting me over seemingly (to me) trivial stuff.
2. voting and unvoting highfive very fast when she kept a pressure vote on me for most of early game.
3. Doesn't seem to be paying very much attention to the game
4. Voting and unvoting highfive when he is probably the most obviously suspicious. If she had kept her vote on me that would be one thing. But all this indecisiveness is not a good sign.
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Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #192 on: March 05, 2014, 03:03:13 pm »

LARD
tiruin is still my second guess at scum btw, for the following reasons.
1. pursuing and voting me over seemingly (to me) trivial stuff.
2. voting and unvoting highfive very fast when she kept a pressure vote on me for most of early game.
3. Doesn't seem to be paying very much attention to the game
4. Voting and unvoting highfive when he is probably the most obviously suspicious. If she had kept her vote on me that would be one thing. But all this indecisiveness is not a good sign.
Very interesting.
Dictate how trivial those stuffs are then, please? I'd loooove to see how your diverging viewpoint makes this so superficial.
The unvotes? Oh dear! Did you not notice what I found there in where I shifted? Or was it too 'trivial' also? Back #2 up.
Same with #3 because that's just mudslinging.
#4 - Most obviously suspicious? You're quick to conclude without asking 'Tiruin, why'd you unvote highfive?' Quicker to conclude indecisiveness--let me poke: Why is indecisiveness a bad thing? Next, defend on how 'indecisive' I am as opposed to pressuring you right now on behalf of your motive and intent.

Quote
It's fine with me if you all want to play seriously, and I'll try to play by everybody else's standards.
Quote
I measure about two inches on my screen between you telling me not to use sarcasm and your use of it. But that's okay I guess because you're not a newbie. In all seriousness though, I don't take any of this personally or offensively and I hope you don't either.
I meant that in regard to your vote. The wording on how you did it says NO, yet your vote says YES.
Because the vote is pursuing him.
However, the tipping point of not-suspecting you lies in the matter that you're blankly voting him. Blankly because just because you suspected the predecessor's merit DOES NOT mean you can shift it over 'just like that' without any basis for him to return his reply on.
Because there? The primary basis already has its context, by the vote which you linked here. While your first statement says you do not wish to pursue him in terms of questions, your statement of WHERE you voted him already has its reasons--just not in interrogative form.

However,
Quote
But the clearest evidence was when he pointed the FoS at me.
THIS dictates personalism moreso than anything else. Just because he FoS'd you (and an FoS at that), while it can be implied of his intent, does not necessarily speak of any malevolent intent towards you--you state the root cause being that, being the 'clearest evidence' as if its damning in itself to do such contrary to anything else.

Let me ask you: Why is that the 'clearest evidence'?

Quote
He is also incredibly suspicious and probably won't last long, but as I said, everybody else is battering him, so I won't, except for the fact that he went straight from voting me to neutral
Now add this query to you-why are you being indecisive?

Quote
Solymr was unacceptably ambiguous is accusing me. But the clearest evidence was when he pointed the FoS at me.
Comparing your and his stances at the time-I can dearly say that if one of you is scum, then both are of different alignments given the interactions. Valid.
Due to yours stating of his motives, and him requesting a replacement at that time.



Missed this.

Persus and Tiruin:
You promise that if you're scum you won't misdirect us? Or not destroy us too bad?

I almost missed Tirun's everyone question, there is something I can talk about in Mafia other than Mafia?
muhwahwahwaHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yes. On both. The latter should be related to Mafia (or have a connection to it) though.



EHF
I will, but I think I'm gonna call it a night for now, gonna get up in the morning and post again.
I look forward to seeing your face again.
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Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #193 on: March 05, 2014, 03:20:13 pm »

LARD
tiruin is still my second guess at scum btw, for the following reasons.
1. pursuing and voting me over seemingly (to me) trivial stuff.
2. voting and unvoting highfive very fast when she kept a pressure vote on me for most of early game.
3. Doesn't seem to be paying very much attention to the game
4. Voting and unvoting highfive when he is probably the most obviously suspicious. If she had kept her vote on me that would be one thing. But all this indecisiveness is not a good sign.
Very interesting.
Dictate how trivial those stuffs are then, please? I'd loooove to see how your diverging viewpoint makes this so superficial.
The unvotes? Oh dear! Did you not notice what I found there in where I shifted? Or was it too 'trivial' also? Back #2 up.
Same with #3 because that's just mudslinging.
#4 - Most obviously suspicious? You're quick to conclude without asking 'Tiruin, why'd you unvote highfive?' Quicker to conclude indecisiveness--let me poke: Why is indecisiveness a bad thing? Next, defend on how 'indecisive' I am as opposed to pressuring you right now on behalf of your motive and intent.
Addendum #4 - Why is he the most obviously suspicious, and why did you add the 'probably' there?
Quote
If she had kept her vote on me that would be one thing.
What about it?
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darkpaladin109

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLV: The Terminators: Day 1!
« Reply #194 on: March 05, 2014, 03:47:49 pm »

Hey Darkpaladin109, I don't think we ever did get to hear your reads on other players? Would you share those with us please.
Yeah, I don't really have any "reads" on anyone.
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