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[Sean Mirrsen]

Some cases could be solved by combining branches. For instance, an arm with 50 hands holding 50 swords can't do 50 attacks, because the hand is not what's doing the attack, it's just holding the weapon. If you try to swing it, you're swinging a single weapon consisting of 50 swords, which requires ungodly amounts of strength on that one arm, and does not do 50 times the amount of damage a single sword does.

[spazyak]

Some cases could be solved by combining branches. For instance, an arm with 50 hands holding 50 swords can't do 50 attacks, because the hand is not what's doing the attack, it's just holding the weapon. If you try to swing it, you're swinging a single weapon consisting of 50 swords, which requires ungodly amounts of strength on that one arm, and does not do 50 times the amount of damage a single sword does.

So fifty swords for 1 attack or fifty weak attacks from one good sword?

[piecewise]

There are a few alternatives to prevent Sy-ing.

First is restricting the max number of structural parts on a limb. It's simple, does the job, but is a bit artificial to say "no, limbs no longer than 5."

Second is making it unreasonably expensive to build outside the norm, but even then whats to stop a sy from leveling toward omni-limb and breaking things? No, we need a way where it makes sense to spread your powers out and not just dump all power into a single limb.

Third is that maybe we can make it that the longer a limb is, the less of a bonus it provides? It makes biological sense, actually; even if a limb is strong, you get the square cubed rule and suddenly that strength is being used just to move it. But then we hit strange things; does it mean that a part at the end of the limb just gives less? Or is it an over all decrease? And by what? It's something to consider, at least.

[Whisperling]

Decreasing speed makes more sense to me, honestly. IE, you can put a lot of muscle mass behind stuff, but it gets really unwieldy for obvious reasons (also, not getting hit also falls under speed, right? That should be fun when someone decides it's time to chop the uberlimb off).

[AoshimaMichio]

There are a few alternatives to prevent Sy-ing.

Second is making it unreasonably expensive to build outside the norm, but even then whats to stop a sy from leveling toward omni-limb and breaking things? No, we need a way where it makes sense to spread your powers out and not just dump all power into a single limb.

Let him if it means he's weaker on other areas.

[piecewise]

There are a few alternatives to prevent Sy-ing.

Second is making it unreasonably expensive to build outside the norm, but even then whats to stop a sy from leveling toward omni-limb and breaking things? No, we need a way where it makes sense to spread your powers out and not just dump all power into a single limb.

Let him if it means he's weaker on other areas.

The problem is that the omnilimb, if it reaches a certain critical mass of speed and strength, becomes nearly unstoppable. Or at least it gets to the point that the only thing that will stop it is dumb luck. Or supremely powerful opponents.

[DoctorMcTaalik]

Are overshoots a thing in this system? Or does solidly passing a check always ≈5?

[piecewise]

Are overshoots a thing in this system? Or does solidly passing a check always ≈5?

Not a thing in this system, though I suppose they could be? But that would mean that a high level character would basically unavoidably over shoot any normal roll. When you have +80 and a d100 roll with a target of 100, you're kinda screwed in terms of "bullseye-ing" it.

[syvarris]

Omnilimb actually isn't quite that bad.  The first one I made only gave +50 spd, compared to a normal leg's +25.  That's only an extra 25% chance to dodge vs. a similarly leveled character, which while significant, isn't gamebreaking.  Perhaps if some limbs give very high stat bonuses, it could get worse?

In any case, it's heavily nerfed by not being able to dodge and attack with the same limb, which is a logical restriction.  That forces me to choose between several more multiattacks, or slightly more dodging, and if I choose the former it becomes very easy to sever the whole limb.

One restriction could be to say that functional parts with strength bonuses can have extra armor put on them, accounting for the increased strength, but such parts won't let you armor other parts more heavily.  Such a rule wouldn't significantly affect strength-builds, but would hinder speed builds (which are already OP in comparison, due to multiattacks ^{Unless speed weapons have a fraction the power of str weapons?}) slightly by making them easily-dismembered glass cannons.  The omni-limb strategy literally falls apart with one strong, well-aimed hit.

I like the suggestion of making bonuses give less the longer a limb is.  Diminishing returns would be cool.


Hmm.  I have some a question about Heart.  The chest and gut grant +10 heart each; is this only used for heart saves, which means you don't regen an extra 30 humanity per turn thanks to the extra 20 heart?  I've been assuming that the heart bonus affects your base heart stat rather than the way str and spd bonuses apply only to rolls, but that just leads to way too many exploits.

EDIT:

Spoiler: Made another one (click to show/hide)

((No nice formatting because I'm on a phone))

32 str
99 dex
29 int
70 hrt

Int can be significantly lowered because humanity can be spent to improve it.  29 (base) + 20 (head) + 50 (humanity) = 99.
The seriously lowered int, and raised point pool, means I can significantly increase dex and the other stats.

Body plan:
   O
OOOOOOOE
   |
OOOOOOX

First, swap the positions of the arms and legs.  The right "leg" should be two upper legs and one lower leg capped with a hand.  The left upper leg is a lower leg and two feet.  The left lower limb, the normal arm, is two upper arms and a hand, while the last limb is just two vestigial lower arms.

Final stats:
+129 spd for attacks guarantees triple attacks. Loose humanity to burn can guarantee one (10 loose), two (40 loose), or three (90 loose) more attacks on top of that.
+119 spd for dodges, requiring a foe to have at least +19 to their attack to hit.
+50 int, increasable to +100 through humanity
70 heart, meaning regen of 105 loose humanity per turn and a humanity cap of 130 (due to the four part limb).  A full attack can spend ninety humanity, guaranteeing six attacks per turn, with up to 15 humanity being available to spend on another roll, like a dodge.  Alternatively, while being fully defensive, this can make two dodge rolls at +169 per turn, while returning three attacks at +129.

[Parisbre56]

From what I understand, speed weapons do less damage. Speed weapons are also ranged weapons, so hopefully piecewise will make them rare, with low ammo or hard to use. Otherwise, if speed weapons are equal to strength weapons, speed is op since you can attack AND dodge with it. Maybe you could fix that by making strength also give you a bonus to avoid damage. Rename strength to body and have it act as strength + endurance in ER terms. Or maybe allow people to carry shields. But that would add more complexity.

[Egan_BW]

str 100
dex 75
int 25
hrt 0

Totally human bodyplan, stabs the abominations with a spear. Including ones supposedly on their own side.

[Lenglon]

str 100
dex 75
int 25
hrt 0

Totally human bodyplan, stabs the abominations with a spear. Including ones supposedly on their own side.

doesn't this turn into a demon upon character creation due to max humanity being zero, therefore humanity hit zero, therefore becomes a demon?
don't you need at least a hrt of 1?

[piecewise]

From what I understand, speed weapons do less damage. Speed weapons are also ranged weapons, so hopefully piecewise will make them rare, with low ammo or hard to use. Otherwise, if speed weapons are equal to strength weapons, speed is op since you can attack AND dodge with it. Maybe you could fix that by making strength also give you a bonus to avoid damage. Rename strength to body and have it act as strength + endurance in ER terms. Or maybe allow people to carry shields. But that would add more complexity.

Speed weapons may have comparable base damage in some instances but they don't get any bonus damage from stats. Strength weapons deal base damage + the difference between the attacker and defender's rolls. So you can do 25+50 damage or something.  Where as speed weapons would just be 25 damage every time.

Omnilimb actually isn't quite that bad.  The first one I made only gave +50 spd, compared to a normal leg's +25.  That's only an extra 25% chance to dodge vs. a similarly leveled character, which while significant, isn't gamebreaking.  Perhaps if some limbs give very high stat bonuses, it could get worse?

In any case, it's heavily nerfed by not being able to dodge and attack with the same limb, which is a logical restriction.  That forces me to choose between several more multiattacks, or slightly more dodging, and if I choose the former it becomes very easy to sever the whole limb.

One restriction could be to say that functional parts with strength bonuses can have extra armor put on them, accounting for the increased strength, but such parts won't let you armor other parts more heavily.  Such a rule wouldn't significantly affect strength-builds, but would hinder speed builds (which are already OP in comparison, due to multiattacks ^{Unless speed weapons have a fraction the power of str weapons?}) slightly by making them easily-dismembered glass cannons.  The omni-limb strategy literally falls apart with one strong, well-aimed hit.

I like the suggestion of making bonuses give less the longer a limb is.  Diminishing returns would be cool.


Hmm.  I have some a question about Heart.  The chest and gut grant +10 heart each; is this only used for heart saves, which means you don't regen an extra 30 humanity per turn thanks to the extra 20 heart?  I've been assuming that the heart bonus affects your base heart stat rather than the way str and spd bonuses apply only to rolls, but that just leads to way too many exploits.

EDIT:

Spoiler: Made another one (click to show/hide)

((No nice formatting because I'm on a phone))

32 str
99 dex
29 int
70 hrt

Int can be significantly lowered because humanity can be spent to improve it.  29 (base) + 20 (head) + 50 (humanity) = 99.
The seriously lowered int, and raised point pool, means I can significantly increase dex and the other stats.

Body plan:
   O
OOOOOOOE
   |
OOOOOOX

First, swap the positions of the arms and legs.  The right "leg" should be two upper legs and one lower leg capped with a hand.  The left upper leg is a lower leg and two feet.  The left lower limb, the normal arm, is two upper arms and a hand, while the last limb is just two vestigial lower arms.

Final stats:
+129 spd for attacks guarantees triple attacks. Loose humanity to burn can guarantee one (10 loose), two (40 loose), or three (90 loose) more attacks on top of that.
+119 spd for dodges, requiring a foe to have at least +19 to their attack to hit.
+50 int, increasable to +100 through humanity
70 heart, meaning regen of 105 loose humanity per turn and a humanity cap of 130 (due to the four part limb).  A full attack can spend ninety humanity, guaranteeing six attacks per turn, with up to 15 humanity being available to spend on another roll, like a dodge.  Alternatively, while being fully defensive, this can make two dodge rolls at +169 per turn, while returning three attacks at +129.

Looks like that humanity spending cap may either be drastically lowered, made much more expensive or the mechanic may be entirely removed. Because it's op as is. Starting characters shouldn't be able to get 6 attacks.

[piecewise]

Actually...the better way to do it would be to change the way humanity regen works. Instead of regening an amount, we could make it so that regen works by turns. Ie, higher humanity makes it so you regen more often. So you can dump that 100 humanity into an attack and get 6 attacks or whatever, but it will take a while to recover from it.

And we can throw the amount each part restores under another stat, if one stat seems underpowered.

[syvarris]

Yeah, I think it's OP as is.  The best fix would probably be to simply lower the amount you regen from human parts; right now, you regen 75% of your max every turn, assuming you have all your original parts.  That means humanity is less of a stat and more of a very quickly regenerating mana or stamina bar.

As for spd weapons, if they have the same base damage as str weapons, they're OP.  You pretty much can't make multiple str attacks, because that requires branching into speed on the same limb that's focused on str, and spending more stat points on spd.  If I have +139 spd, I get four guaranteed attacks, quadrupling damage, regardless of who I'm hitting.  With Str, I get one attack, and have to rely on my foe having low dodge to do massive damage.  Also, if they only have one dodge roll, my success is more luck based, and easier for them to use special abilities to mitigate (note that my char can make two dodges at 169, while forcing three dodges).  Multiple attacks are also more useful for many weaker opponents, or for sandpapering through many weak limbs, or for applying status effects that aren't damage based.

Not to mention that having high spd means you also have high dodge.  I've been avoiding bringing that up (and building a str char) because you haven't given rules on how armor works.  Maybe str-builds are much more viable due to armor, if it's objectively superior to dodging.

...Damn ninja.