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[Xantalos]

Fortunately that shouldn't be necessary since Xan's not overtly hostile to humanity as a whole like the Altered were.

Though I don't think he's a hivemind, just a giant collective of Xans that are all exact copies of one another, making them act basically like one since they can pretty easily guess what the other ones are thinking.

[syvarris]

Really though, Saint just cares about his own survival, and he dislikes other entities having the ability to harm him while being generally unpredictable--which is an apt description of Xan, especially fused with Maurice.

But yeah, Saint's probably more of a hivemind than Xan.  They're actually an interesting parallel in some ways: both are completely evil, but they act very differently; both essentially run massive spy organizations; both are overly concerned with their own mortality; one overuses space magic phenemenon while generally avoiding tech, and the other overuses tech while generally avoiding space magic...

Years and years ago, when I first came up with Saint, he was actually supposed to be a more effective/accurate Xan.  Funny how things go.

[Xantalos]

It's funny, yeah. They're like the Lawful Evil/Chaotic Evil pair. They have pretty much the same motivation (survive forever), it's just that they have very different ways of going about that - Saint works within the systems and uses them to his advantage, while Xan might do that but generally just pursues his own goals without regard for anyone else's safety, trying to build himself into a thing that can exist forever. Independence vs cooperation, society vs isolation.

I even think they have a song that describes them.
...
Well, the name describes their parallels. Not really some of the lyrics unless their secret war is really just an elaborate courtship.

[Ozarck]

What did Dester do to qualify for STAN trigger? I can't remember anything in particular and I don't think his Sharksuit counts.

It looks more like the Guiding Hand was investigating an event, and Dester was part of the investigation - perhaps the only one still fully human and without robot superpowers or space magic at the scene. Not so much the trigger, as collateral damage.

[Egan_BW]

Well, the name describes their parallels. Not really some of the lyrics unless their secret war is really just an elaborate courtship.

I ship it.

[Nikitian]

I also find it interesting/funny how Maurice's presence further complicates SSaint-Xan comparison. In the vein of alignments, he'd be NG (possibly CG as of post-ARM? Also, LN/LG during the trial, in his own way) - of the completely-off-the-rails, ends-justify-means sort. Which, depending on the specifics of integration into Xan, probably means the collective might not be as "evil" (or purely self-centred) anymore - but all the more unpredictable and posing a major risk to SSaint.

Also, SSaint and Xan both appear to be his allies at the corresponding shifts in his alignment - I wonder which he would have been closer to, understood better and eventually made friends with, had there been time and no pressure. I suppose both - or neither. In a way, he's antithesis to both - personal survival being pretty low on the list of things he cares about, pursued mostly as a means to further his other goals. But then, friendship is probably more about understanding and sharing some base mental framework (leading to further understanding) than about not being that different - and, as Dev once helped me formulate it, Maurice is highly philosophically egocentric, which is probably the one mental trait all three of them share. They are all their own men (AIs, eldritch abominations).

[Xantalos]

They could feasibly be a trinity of gods unto themselves with a little interpretation.

Maurice the Reality-Fucker, he who cares not about his own survival or anything else so long as knowledge is advanced, not for what it could be used for, but for the sake of discovery. Science in its purest and most terrible form.
Xan the Flesh God, who hides himself everywhere and nowhere while pursuing true immortality by any means necessary, secure in the knowledge that no matter how many times he dies in the pursuit of eternal life, he will live on.
Saint the Networked Mind, who hides himself in a secret corner of a universe no one knows exists, and sends his technological network, extensions of his iron will, out into the workings of humanity. Scarred still by intrusions from another reality in the time when he was still mortal, he fears the unknown and so wars against Xan and Maurice to prevent what he sees as his inevitable destruction if the two are allowed to continue their works.

Actually, anyone wanna collaborate on this? I think it could actually be a thing. We'd need some name distortion like what happens with most of the gods ... well, maybe not Xan, that name's simplistic enough that I think it could endure.

[syvarris]

Ahhh, I'm certainly tempted.  Gotta say no, though, as I'm already involved in a project.  Plus, I feel like we should leave ER's setting alone--it's done.  Even if it were to be revived, I don't think anyone other than Piecewise should be doing the reviving.

[Egan_BW]

I might be tempted to do something with the pre-lurker universe, though.

[Xantalos]

Oh, nothing actually serious, just idle speculating on what they'd be called as gods and what their profiles would be and such.
...
man I'm a narcissist sometimes ain't i

[Egan_BW]

I also like how you both have seemingly human infiltrators lurking about the common populence. Almost seems like this new society needs some monster-hunter inquisitors!

[Ozarck]

They could feasibly be a trinity of gods unto themselves with a little interpretation.

Maurice the Reality-Fucker, he who cares not about his own survival or anything else so long as knowledge is advanced, not for what it could be used for, but for the sake of discovery. Science in its purest and most terrible form.
Xan the Flesh God, who hides himself everywhere and nowhere while pursuing true immortality by any means necessary, secure in the knowledge that no matter how many times he dies in the pursuit of eternal life, he will live on.
Saint the Networked Mind, who hides himself in a secret corner of a universe no one knows exists, and sends his technological network, extensions of his iron will, out into the workings of humanity. Scarred still by intrusions from another reality in the time when he was still mortal, he fears the unknown and so wars against Xan and Maurice to prevent what he sees as his inevitable destruction if the two are allowed to continue their works.

Actually, anyone wanna collaborate on this? I think it could actually be a thing. We'd need some name distortion like what happens with most of the gods ... well, maybe not Xan, that name's simplistic enough that I think it could endure.

You forget the Steve Abomination. it has vastly more power at it's neural tips now, due to being wired into the brain of a treeplanet in recursive beastverse. That could ptentially rival the processing power of the Collective. Additionally, teh Xan entity is by no means a perfectly stable unit, and could fracture into factions of its own, due ot hte megalomania of the constituent entities. Similarly, the Saint Collective cold have grown large and complicated enough to have drifted from it's original drive, and with enough compartmentalization (necessary for the coordination and function of any highly complex system) it could act in self contradictory ways. Thus, Steve's power would not be negligible.

Gosh, if Dester had survived to see Northern Green come to fruition, he would likely have initiated a second project, similar to the one Steve had intended to use against the Altered.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

I've been really blessed with bad rolls recently huh Ozark.

[AoshimaMichio]

You forget the Steve Abomination. it has vastly more power at it's neural tips now, due to being wired into the brain of a treeplanet in recursive beastverse.

That actually worries me a bit. Usually brains connected to Steve are scrubbed clean of memories and traces of personality, but I doubt they did same for brain the treeplanet. I mean how can you possibly scrub off potentially troubling extras out of brain size of entire damn continent? Especially when the brain in question is your only specimen, never seen before type, and very likely actively in use. How will memories and personality of the treeplanet affect Steve?

[Sean Mirrsen]

You forget the Steve Abomination. it has vastly more power at it's neural tips now, due to being wired into the brain of a treeplanet in recursive beastverse.

That actually worries me a bit. Usually brains connected to Steve are scrubbed clean of memories and traces of personality, but I doubt they did same for brain the treeplanet. I mean how can you possibly scrub off potentially troubling extras out of brain size of entire damn continent? Especially when the brain in question is your only specimen, never seen before type, and very likely actively in use. How will memories and personality of the treeplanet affect Steve?

I guess we'll have to wait to find out in the first episode of the next season. Hell of a cliffhanger, huh?