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[Pancaek]

-snip-

I, too, would want nothing more than a non-amp exo weapon. But I think pw doesn't have any because it would allow exo users to get both space magics and "regular" weapons. There wouldn't really be a downside to going full exo over con or uncon.

[kj1225]

Also, it'll give more incentive to get a robot body, which is always nice.

[Xantalos]

-snip-

I, too, would want nothing more than a non-amp exo weapon. But I think pw doesn't have any because it would allow exo users to get both space magics and "regular" weapons. There wouldn't really be a downside to going full exo over con or uncon.

I have this sentiment as well. Though it can be kinda circumvented by getting golden Nyartifacts - wait Nyars doesn't use the color system anymore
FUCK

Also, it'll give more incentive to get a robot body, which is always nice.

Just get really buff.

[Nikitian]

Well, since Uncon also allows for... let's see: explosives, chemicals, melee weapons, close-combat deathtubes (pistons and plasma stakes count, right?) and space magic calculators, it'd probably be fine for exo to have access to something more than just space magic and nothing else?
Especially if, based on, say, that same pyramid from M1, a bad roll resulted in your body part pulped to bits. It'd fit nicely with amps potentially boiling your brains, and give a nice upside to Con weapons where you'd shoot yourself in the leg at most.

@Syv Uh, really? I wouldn't think it should require robot strength, as even the gauss rifle kickback required Str: 4 previously not injure the user and it can still be used fairly fine by regular humans today. Also, doing that might actually shrink the base market for the weapon, and disincentivize people from bying it in the first place. ... Well, that is my humble advice to you, in any case.

[syvarris]

@Nik

Well, it is a very heavy gun.  I think I did the calculations at one point, and the tank of shard fluid was like twenty inches long, and had a two inch radius or something insane.  The requirement is to lift the thing, since automatic fire should actually be rather soft.

Anyway, I checked the list already, and the Spektr didn't even have a real requirement.  So the Testament is now light enough for fleshies to carry around.

EDIT: I am confused.  The post before this one previously had a message to me, but is not marked as modified.   

[Sean Mirrsen]

@Sean

The Gungnir, as it currently is, is a very bad weapon.  It's vastly overpriced, at twice the cost of a Spectr which can do basically the same things, except better and longer.

It *can* be made much cheaper, although you'll lose some functionality.  IIRC, I had at one point made an electrolaser conversion kit which added a spark gap and some wiring, turning a standard lasrifle into an electrolaser that ran off the normal battery--and the kit only costed a token.

Add a 1-token 4 TPU battery, and a rechargable battery for another token, and you have a gun that's nearly as good as a Gungnir for half the price.  It's still worse than a Spectr, IMO, since it costs the same but is less poweful, and less versatile.

Oh yes, I know it's a very overpriced weapon as-is. That's mostly because it's not even a weapon as such, it's just a kit to turn two weapons into one. You pretty much just pay for the generator.

It could easily be made into a cheaper integrated weapon, but would there be a point in that? As you said, the Spektr already has more versatility for a fair cost. As it is, the Gungnir takes your electric blade, and puts it on a laser stick. About the only way I can see improving on it is losing the generator, since the standard laser batteries run for 120 instead of 30 seconds now. You could load two Tesla Saber cells into the extended compartment, and the whole weapon would have 120 seconds of uninterrupted lightning-throwing capacity.

[Lenglon]

((And we now have both Lyra and D'usse on-ship at the same time. thus far, we've yet to meet.))

[syvarris]

Ah, Sean, that's a decent point... but if the point of a Gungnir is to just be a modification to a lasrifle, why market it as a weapon that is discounted if you have the parts already?  You should just sell a 'bayonet kit' which attaches a tesla saber to anything, with the added option of making any laser weapons electrolasers.  Let people use it on a cutting lasrr if they want, rather than limiting it to the weakest rifle we have.

Also, I sort of want to say that the tesla saber is a terrible weapon and we don't want to encourage people to buy it, but that's really just opinion.

[Radio Controlled]

Kj, you could take a look on the player market, there's some things for cheap in there. And things sold by team fund can probably be rented for a mission for 1/3 of the listed price or so.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Ah, Sean, that's a decent point... but if the point of a Gungnir is to just be a modification to a lasrifle, why market it as a weapon that is discounted if you have the parts already?  You should just sell a 'bayonet kit' which attaches a tesla saber to anything, with the added option of making any laser weapons electrolasers.  Let people use it on a cutting lasrr if they want, rather than limiting it to the weakest rifle we have.

Also, I sort of want to say that the tesla saber is a terrible weapon and we don't want to encourage people to buy it, but that's really just opinion.

The Tesla Saber is a terribly unsafe weapon, and that can only serve as an encouragement for others to buy it.

And yeah, I considered it. Make it into some sort of an "electrolaser attachment". Problem is, the Tesla Saber is by itself not dealing much more damage than a Cutting Laser does, for instance. It just won't be much of a dramatic increase in efficiency for anything other than the lasrifle.

With the compact and lightweight lasrifle, you can also meaningfully use the Tesla Saber as a bayonet.

The point of marketing it as a combination weapon is... precisely because it's what it is. Having a "kit" that people need to buy and apply is extra logistics, and wouldn't show the complete weapon in the Con category. Like this it's compact and understandable enough, I think.

[Nikitian]

@Sean Not to nitpick, but isn't the Tesla Saber actually capable of gutting Battlesuits (unlike the Cutting Laser)? I recall reading something like that in the early days.

Also, regardless of whether it's a combination weapon, or integrated, I am sure that there could be some good out of the price reduction. Say, you could cut the "kit" down to a single token, and that would still be a success for the combination-weapon approach (though I feel that it might be best sold as that, "upgrade kit" as there is no practical reason to sell is a complete package unless it's integrated and thus enjoying even more significant price reduction).

[syvarris]

On the contrary, I'm pretty sure a tesla saber has even less effect on a battlesuit than a cutlas.  After all, the entire exterior of a BS can be electrified with no harm.  The monoatomic machete is more effective, since it's at least capable of severing joints.

Trying to kill a BS with a tesla weapon would likely just result in the electricity arcing back into you and killing you.  Just like anything else highly conductive.  Seriously, it's easier to kill yourself with a tesla saber than it is to kill an enemy; Why are we still selling it?


...It suddenly occurs to me that I really need to write up a Assaultsuit entry, before PW writes the AUX segment up.  Although, perhaps that will need to go through prototyping too?  It is pretty different from a BS, especially now that it needs an MMI to pilot it.  Hmm.

[Sean Mirrsen]

@Sean Not to nitpick, but isn't the Tesla Saber actually capable of gutting Battlesuits (unlike the Cutting Laser)? I recall reading something like that in the early days.

Also, regardless of whether it's a combination weapon, or integrated, I am sure that there could be some good out of the price reduction. Say, you could cut the "kit" down to a single token, and that would still be a success for the combination-weapon approach (though I feel that it might be best sold as that, "upgrade kit" as there is no practical reason to sell is a complete package unless it's integrated and thus enjoying even more significant price reduction).

I just don't like to handwave stuff like this, I guess.
You can't just slap a tesla saber on the weapon's barrel and call it a day. You need to align it in a specific way (if it's a laser), you need a special cradle and weapon-specific additional controls to activate the Saber from the weapon's grip, etc. You'd have to have specialized kits for every given weapon.

[syvarris]

@Sean

If you can't get a single mount that works for all our guns (do we not have accessory rails?  I think I gave some to the Testament...), just design one for each gun and let the buyer pick which mount they use.  The control system should be pretty simple to make work with any grip.  Emp's turret conversion thing works, why couldn't this?

[Nikitian]

@Syv You know, my knowldege of physics is a bit lacking in this particular regard, so I don't know whether it's a contradiction or something, but I recall that tesla saber is pretty much a plasma sword with the 'blade' part kept contained by automanipulated magnetic fields - and I think that battlesuits as they are aren't resistant (like, at all) to the plasma cannon's projectiles?

@Sean Uh, sure. Still, I mean - even if it's upgrade to a single particular weapon, cannot it be sold as an upgrade (which might or might not be efficient) instead of a glaringly prohibitively expensive 'combined' weapon?
And yeah, what Syvarris said. There is no reason not to tailor the mount to each and every suitable weapon, and let the buyer decide. Hell, I can totally see an enthusiast Avatar of War pilot strapping the tesla saber bayonet (remember that the 'blade' length can be several meters long, if needed?) to his heavy laser