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[piecewise]

The idea for the between level stuff right now is very dark soulsy. Basically, when you complete an area you'll get access to a checkpoint of sorts. These may be short cuts that lead back to an earlier area or they might be a sanctuary. And these sanctuaries are just places where other souls gather, so they're where you'd get your "reinforcements". Each sanctuary you get will offer some benefit for newly spawning players like more points to allocate or access to demonic parts to start with. So murdering your teammates midlevel would probably be a poor idea if only because new ones can only spawn in a certain place.

[syvarris]

On the contrary, it actually makes it much more practical.  If you murder teammates just before getting back to a checkpoint, you can reliably select the weakest/most damaged because you just saw their performance, and you know they're about to be replaceable.  IC, the people you're recruiting don't know about your past teammate-murdering habits, and there's no IC need to preserve your faction anyway.  Hell, IC it kinda makes sense to finish off weak people under controlled circumstances; better that than them going demon in the middle of a fight.

[NJW2000]

Perhaps murder should decrease your humanity.

[syvarris]

Why?  Do you really want to discourage forcibly turning one's allies into demons so that their body parts can be harvested?

[Ozarck]

Hey PW, if I survive this, can I keep this character for the main game? I'll be the grizzled vet of the team. The mysterious stranger - the link to a long line of invaders seeking "the source" and driving the plot forward.

Until I am inevitably murdered by said teammates for the most ridiculous of reasons.

hmm. got a weapon with 30 base damage.
now, aimed attacks have a -30 point penalty, which, coincidentally, is the same as the hp of an upper limb part. So, if i do an unaimed attack, i have a greater chance to hit, and will, 8 out of 12 (2/3) times, target an upper limb, trunk, or brain. That means that an unaimed attack has a 2 in 3 chance of doing the same amount of damage to the trunk as an aimed attack, wiht better odds of hitting. And it has a 1/3 chance of doing 30 more damage to the trunk. So, until the brain is exposed, or the trunk parts are sufficiently weakened to make targeting the core viable, there is no benefit to a targeted attack.

additionally, if I hit upper limb, or ifI destroy a trunk part, I remove that limb from consideration for both attack and defence. only problem is, I need four attacks to prevent the blob from being able to one hit kill me. My odds are still not good.

we only had 2 die, and one of them had his body destroyed to fuel someone else' humanity. The other is ren, and his body is currently guarded by two demons. the other three are demons. So, I cannot get replacement parts or usable weapons from them.

I have ... 31 humanity myself this turn, so I could conceivably spend up to about 25 for an attack, which would bring my 62 up to a 87, 22 points above the blob's dex, meaning I have about, what? a 72% chance to hit? but if I spent that much, and got hit with infect immediately after, I would be dead. well, 11 out of 15 chance anyway.

Let's talk multiple attacks. If I spent the humanity and attacked twice, the second attack would have to beat the target of 100. since I would be attacking with a base of 82, I would need to roll 18 or more to hit - not bad. Third attack would need a roll of 38 or more - a gamble, but still a reasonable risk. more than that, andI don't fancy my chances at all. So I could conceivably do three hits with 30 base damage, plus whatever difference between my success and the demon's roll.

I feel like it would still be better to wait three additional rounds, if I can avoid being hit that long. that woldgive me 18 more humanity to spend, and I could use my mechanical arm to block infect attacks,going pure defensive. problem is, infect is strong against al my fleshy bits, and the demon has writhe, which will obliterate my mechanical arm. It is folly to attempt a protracted defensive game.

What about ranged attacks? can I possibly stay at a distance and throw some junk at the thing? will that do damage, enough to matter?

[syvarris]

WoF doesn't affect inorganic parts.  It's pretty much harmless to you, at least until all your non-mechanical limbs have been WoF'd, at which point you have to choose between dodging or attacking.  That's a pretty minor concern, seeing as it can OHK you with Infect.

I'd suggest either continuing to run away while spending humanity on your flight, or saving up all the humanity to dodge infect.

Oh, and note that PW did say you could sever your own parts to prevent infect from spreading.  So you'll probably be able to tank a hit or two.

[Ozarck]

... Writhe only affects organic parts? Holy monkey shit. I am worried about all the wrong things then.
My mechanical arm is basically immune to the jelly guy's magic attacks, though corrosion is still a problem.
((And that makes my use of writhe even more pointless. It seems like it would be decent against flesh monsters, if I could hit them, but it costs 50 to use, and that leaves very little humanity for boosting the chances of success. Ugh, I ruined my character.))

again, though, why would I spend humanity on running away? It regens too slowly to waste against the creature's 1 speed.

Anyway, that also means I can throw shit at it, maybe. Three writhes active at once will immobilize me, so I still gotta move. I can get hit by one writhe every five turns without getting stuck.

Edit: I think I can successfully use writhe on sydemon (actually, with it's 100 str and dex, and it's bonuses to both, I doubt I could hit it), if I can survive WibblyWobbly here. If so, I can prooooobably defeat that one without much trouble. The trick will be to lure it away from the other one that I haven't seen yet. And also to not get within grapple distance. that clockwork tentacle is looking mighty tempting. and maybe the naga bits, if I lose some lower end pieces from this body.

[piecewise]

Hey PW, if I survive this, can I keep this character for the main game? I'll be the grizzled vet of the team. The mysterious stranger - the link to a long line of invaders seeking "the source" and driving the plot forward.

Until I am inevitably murdered by said teammates for the most ridiculous of reasons.

hmm. got a weapon with 30 base damage.
now, aimed attacks have a -30 point penalty, which, coincidentally, is the same as the hp of an upper limb part. So, if i do an unaimed attack, i have a greater chance to hit, and will, 8 out of 12 (2/3) times, target an upper limb, trunk, or brain. That means that an unaimed attack has a 2 in 3 chance of doing the same amount of damage to the trunk as an aimed attack, wiht better odds of hitting. And it has a 1/3 chance of doing 30 more damage to the trunk. So, until the brain is exposed, or the trunk parts are sufficiently weakened to make targeting the core viable, there is no benefit to a targeted attack.

additionally, if I hit upper limb, or ifI destroy a trunk part, I remove that limb from consideration for both attack and defence. only problem is, I need four attacks to prevent the blob from being able to one hit kill me. My odds are still not good.

we only had 2 die, and one of them had his body destroyed to fuel someone else' humanity. The other is ren, and his body is currently guarded by two demons. the other three are demons. So, I cannot get replacement parts or usable weapons from them.

I have ... 31 humanity myself this turn, so I could conceivably spend up to about 25 for an attack, which would bring my 62 up to a 87, 22 points above the blob's dex, meaning I have about, what? a 72% chance to hit? but if I spent that much, and got hit with infect immediately after, I would be dead. well, 11 out of 15 chance anyway.

Let's talk multiple attacks. If I spent the humanity and attacked twice, the second attack would have to beat the target of 100. since I would be attacking with a base of 82, I would need to roll 18 or more to hit - not bad. Third attack would need a roll of 38 or more - a gamble, but still a reasonable risk. more than that, andI don't fancy my chances at all. So I could conceivably do three hits with 30 base damage, plus whatever difference between my success and the demon's roll.

I feel like it would still be better to wait three additional rounds, if I can avoid being hit that long. that woldgive me 18 more humanity to spend, and I could use my mechanical arm to block infect attacks,going pure defensive. problem is, infect is strong against al my fleshy bits, and the demon has writhe, which will obliterate my mechanical arm. It is folly to attempt a protracted defensive game.

What about ranged attacks? can I possibly stay at a distance and throw some junk at the thing? will that do damage, enough to matter?

Sure, why not.

I should point out that I now flip a coin so its 50/50 between hitting a limb or the main body. Hence why people are getting maimed faster.

If you attack twice, you have to beat a speed roll of 100 for the second attack to even happen, but thats the only difference between the first and second attacks. But if you fail the speed roll, the tentacle jello gets an attack back at you, remember. At least if you're in melee range, since it has no ranged normal attacks.

And yeah, you can throw stuff. Damage would be equal to the base damage of the weapon or item thrown.

[Ozarck]

50/50 trunk v limb eh? that gives me a pretty high likelyhood of being killed outright if the demon hits me with infect.

I was looking at the "double attack thing" while calculating what my chances were based on my strength stat, with cyber bonus, and some humanity pumped in. Then I remembered: it's a speed check, not a strength check. Double attacks are not a likely thing for me unless I spend 40 humanity on speed. And that reduces both the chance to hit, and the damage done, significantly.

I several options right now (none of them really great):
1) hide in the scrap and hope the jagged metal causes more damage to the gelatin beast than to me (it is much bigger after all).
2) kite and throw shit, hoping to wear it down until I can either sever some tentacles or break apart a trunk piece or two.
3) save up my humanity for a major direct assault.
4) run away and hope that I have better odds with one of the other demons.
5) adopt a defensive stance, and hope for a chance at a counter attack. Tank the humanity drain, and simply block all attempts to infect.

pros:
1) if the junk is too cluttered for the beast to get through, it will either weaken by coming through it, or will stay in throwing range, allowing me to whittle it down with tossed junk. There's some rebar in here that could have decent damage, I think.
2) plenty of junk to throw, and my speed should keep me out of arms length.
3) strength of 62, + say 47 humanity, gives me an attack of 109 vs. the dex of 65 of the creature. that 44 point advantage gives me pretty good odds of actually hitting. base damage of my current makeshift weapon, means any hit would be enough to sever a limb if it landed there, and an average attack of 44 above the demon's means I would be doing 74 damage all in one go. additionally, a lucky hit (at 70+ over the defense roll) could shear off two whole trunk parts, or even kill it outright, if it hit a trunk part and the core.
4) writhe has a far greater chance of harming sydemon than it has of doing anything useful to the gooboy.
5) since the goodemon can do only one attack per round, I could conceivably stalemate him while he tries to infect me, and counterattack on turns where he uses writhe. Thus, I could possibly whittle down it's limbs. Once it has none of those, I am at an advantage. And a defensive stance, according to how PW let Ren play it, gives a +30 to dodge, bringing my dodge up to 70 or so.

and cons:
1) The junk could damage me, or it could simply move out of the way of the monster, since it seems to move according to the will of Oro.
2) my dex is 25 points lower than the demon's, so my hit rate will be pretty low. Plus, if he hits me with three writhes on my various non-cyber limbs, I would be nearly immobilized. though I guess my cyber limb could still keep me moving.
3) this puts me at arrm's length. Once my attack resolves, the demon has a pretty good chance of hitting back. And it has a pretty good chance of hitting a part of me I cannot afford to lose. This is basically an all or nothing, unless I do something like "defend wen the demon approaches within arms length, and next round, hit and run."
4) sydemon's physical stats makes using writhe on it a pretty big gamble. Plus, goodemon is smart, and might just follow me in there.
5) if I adopt a defensive stance, it's still only a fifty fifty whether I cold block each attack. This means that every turn risks me getting one hit killed.

Best option I can see is to hide until the goodemon spots me, and then start throwing shit and running. maybe spend some humanity to boost my odds of hitting. Keep kiting backand forth through the three rooms until my humanity charges. Keep kiting, just out of reach of the limbs, and delay attacks until after the demon takes it's turn- then dash in and hit. run away at teh start of the next turn so as to be out of hitting range before it's turn. Now, with my 39 point speed advantage, generally I am going to get to act first (why did we introduce an initiative roll, why?) so if I take my hit turn in one round afterthe demon, and run away before it can react, I stand a chance.

[Ozarck]

come on, guys, comment. help me out here.

good news is, my humanity is nearing max. bad news is, all three of them stand in a group, between me and the only probable exit.

Now, I had just about convinced myself that I might be able to take them each, one by one, especially if I could scavenge one of the infected arms, but three at once is less optimal.

Spider legs probably moves quite fast, we got the genius spell caster, and the bruiser. All I have is a faulty spell, a powerful arm, and a weapon or two. I really really wish I had swapped writhe for piston strength.

[spazyak]

come on, guys, comment. help me out here.

good news is, my humanity is nearing max. bad news is, all three of them stand in a group, between me and the only probable exit.

Now, I had just about convinced myself that I might be able to take them each, one by one, especially if I could scavenge one of the infected arms, but three at once is less optimal.

Spider legs probably moves quite fast, we got the genius spell caster, and the bruiser. All I have is a faulty spell, a powerful arm, and a weapon or two. I really really wish I had swapped writhe for piston strength.

keep something between you and them and move around them, seek out high ground or vents. Like with the ER test and the giant alien man death pyramid I survived by just staying out of the way

[piecewise]

As Oz shits himself and then gets eaten, lets talk about things I'm gonna change for the next incarnation of the game

1. Humanity is gonna be unconnected to Human parts and instead is gonna be connected to the Heart stat. In fact, humanity may not even be a thing anymore. Instead we can just have heart and Corruption. Heart is a static stat, corruption goes up and down. How fast it goes down is something we'll have to play with. I'm tempted to have it based on human parts, but that's potentially a hassle to track.  Oh, maybe I'll have it related to the actual amount of corruption you have. So at lower corruptions it will reduce quicker but at higher corruptions it takes longer. Or maybe I'll connect it to level? Hmm.

2.Demon parts no longer cost anything to put on you AS LONG AS THEY ARE IN THEIR SLOTS. So you can full demon yourself and it costs nothing to just have those parts. Now, USING those parts is where it costs in terms of corruption. What demon parts will have is a cost, and that cost is paid either in permanent corruption if you put them outside your slots or in temp if you use them. And probably outside the slots you'll have them be like 3 times the cost or something, to keep those costs high without making limb bonuses impossibly expensive.  So you can have those high powered demon limbs and use them as normal, but kicking in their full power and using their bonuses will cause some corruption. A small amount, yes, but it builds as you fight. So no matter what you do, pure bonus using fighter or pure magic user, you have to manage your corruption at least a bit.

3. Need to add weapons. And weapons will function a lot like body parts but they'll need a grasp rather than be physically attached. And they'll have a base damage, if they are ranged or not, and HP. The HP is so that they can be targeted and damaged like body parts; they don't degrade via normal use. But they also can't be healed normally. Weapons in the game will probably be swapped around a fair bit. I'll probably also have stat requirements on some of them. Such as a certain strength to wield big ass weapons. Easy enough.

4. I'll need to rebalance some things in terms of cost for parts, obviously.

[piecewise]

Weapons have a fair bit of detail in them

Name: Longsword
Type: Melee
HP: 200
Base Damage: 30
Stat Used: Strength
Stat Bonus: None
Stat Requirement: None
Stat Scaling: Yes
Special attribute: None


Rather than just say Str is melee, Dex is ranged, I'm going for this method where we can do strength based ranged or dex based melee, but the majority will still follow the str melee, dex ranged rule.  This way also allows for stat bonuses  such as small weapons having speed bonuses for multi-attacks and big weapons having built in str bonuses for more damage.

[piecewise]

I've removed the exponentially increasing cost of body parts outside their normal slots. They're now a flat cost of 4x activation corruption, while normal ones are free to add, but still cost to use.

I'm gonna go through the body building rules and make a few changes to be consistent with this.

What I'm considering is what to do about the cost of using limbs. If I make the cost very small, you can use them more often and they will have low bonuses, or I can make them cost more but give larger bonuses. So it's the choice between paying 5 and getting +7 or paying 15 and getting +25 or something.

[renegadelobster]

I like the cost more/larger bonus.