Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[nenjin]

I don't really disagree either Cript. But IMO, the first one to be reduced to saying FU is the one that has "lost" the argument. If debating on the Internet is a matter of knowledge and wit, then making your argument "FU!" essentially says you've got nothing left but rage.

And you know, Toady has never had a problem identifying instigators who aren't swearing.

Anyways, I'd rather not see this thread get closed because more than one person can't reign it in. It's the only place I'm going to get to hear from Russians and Ukrainians that isn't coming from one or another biased news source or out of context video.

[BlindKitty]

Order No. 227 and Order No. 270 issued by the Stalin, for example. Various memoirs of the Red Army soldiers. Books about the 'Great Patriotic War' (is this the right term in English?) written by people who have no interest in conforming with the propaganda (for starters, Victor Suvorov). You know, things like that. I'm actually interested in the history of WW II, but most of my sources aren't in English (or Russian, for that matter), so I can only direct you to things that Googling 'barrier troops in Red Army' uncovers, or Suvorov books, as those are available in English for sure.

Hey, wait a goddamn second... You mean this mission wasn't based on made-up stories?

As far as the Penal units went, the guys from this mission had it pretty good. Read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtrafbat#.22Trampler.22_mine-clearing_battalions

[Comrade P.]

@Comrade Lol. Chill out dude. Did your family personally participate in the purges, or something? /sarcasm

My family didn't. Checked that. If you are just fond of making me feel discomforted, congrats, you succeed.

CP, you need to read the rules of this forum. Disagreeing with someone, and even an attitude you don't like, isn't grounds to just start throwing f-bombs around. You're bringing this discussion down, and honestly, your entire argument. Was your first warning from Toady not enough?

That time it was BlindKitty who posted a text full of racial hatred towards Russians. Now it is my bad, I know. I'll go chill out for a while, you guys are right.

If you feel that way, report him and let Toady decide.

It's what I did with your post.

I did. That post I was talking about was deleted. Well, if you reported, okay. That post of mine was somehow against rules. I could report Mict for trlling, because it sounds to me like that, but you guys like him, so I don't.

@nenjin: I am empty on arguments, you are right. No, really. Whatever way discussion goes, whatever arguments spoken, Mict keeps his line with sincere devotion.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I don't really disagree either Cript. But IMO, the first one to be reduced to saying FU is the one that has "lost" the argument. If debating on the Internet is a matter of knowledge and wit, then making your argument "FU!" essentially says you've got nothing left but rage.

And you know, Toady has never had a problem identifying instigators who aren't swearing.

Anyways, I'd rather not see this thread get closed because more than one person can't reign it in. It's the only place I'm going to get to hear from Russians and Ukrainians that isn't coming from one or another biased news source or out of context video.

I doubt it's even possible to hear something from a Russian or Ukrainian on this matter that isn't going to be biased, in some ways even to a worse extent than any news source.

Even I, apathetic as I am to this whole ordeal, and with as much as I know about not trusting any given media sources, would still put my trust in my government over someone else's, all other probabilities being equally uncertain. That's just the way these things work.

[Baffler]

I think it's probably best we just drop this line of conversation.

[nenjin]

Even I, apathetic as I am to this whole ordeal, and with as much as I know about not trusting any given media sources, would still put my trust in my government over someone else's, all other probabilities being equally uncertain. That's just the way these things work.

I guess what I mean is, I'd rather hear a "man on the street" view than an official report or statement. Perhaps because I want to know the bias inherent in everyday people's view of the situation. (Plenty of that on display already.)

I could report Mict for trlling, because it sounds to me like that, but you guys like him, so I don't.

It's not about who likes who. It's about putting an honest debate first above everything.

[Comrade P.]

I could report Mict for trlling, because it sounds to me like that, but you guys like him, so I don't.

It's not about who likes who. It's about putting an honest debate first above everything.

That was mine point too. I just can't have those with a man who is not about to change his mind at all and believes his is right. I cannot reject the fact I am stubborn in the bad sense of it as well, but I'm mostly speaking of my own country's actions here, trying to avoid discussion of other's policies/history.

[Mephansteras]

Honestly, at the point where you have nothing left to really say the best thing to do is just ignore that person's posts and move on.

[nenjin]

Honestly, at the point where you have nothing left to really say the best thing to do is just ignore that person's posts and move on.

Or, you know, recenter and hope the other person goes "alright, I wasn't exactly being intellectually fair either."

[Comrade P.]

Honestly, at the point where you have nothing left to really say the best thing to do is just ignore that person's posts and move on.

I confess, I just do not have enough will to do this reasonable thing.

[Criptfeind]

Ah, there is a ignore list, under profile, Buddies/Ignore List, Edit Ignore list. Very useful sometimes.

[Comrade P.]

Ah, there is a ignore list, under profile, Buddies/Ignore List, Edit Ignore list. Very useful sometimes.

But what if he occasionlly says a thing I agree with? Then this ignoring would be unjustified, for I could find a common language and establish dialog. I actually believe I can, if the discussion goes in normal way.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

For the record I've not been insulted by you or anything you say, Comrade. Just saying. I incorrectly lumped you in with Beznogin, who actually holds the.. unique views of 'acceptable sacrifice'.

Since this thread went up in flames because of my previous post, I want to say that by "sacrifices" I originally meant people sacrificing themselves for the Soviet Union (e.g. soldiers during WW2). While some may say that it is also necessary in some cases, killing political dissidents isn't a sacrifice (although if Stalinist Aztecs had existed, they would have regarded that as a genuine contribution to the country).

You didn't mention this in response to Beznogin, you mentioned it after you told me to fuck off, which is alright, but it doesn't help that I thought you agreed with his held view of acceptable sacrifice. I apologize for that misrepresentation.


But. Same way if someone from the US told me it was perfectly alright for us to genocide the natives, or that slavery was a reasonable sacrifice, I'd go to great lengths to atleast condemn such a viewpoint. I'm an enemy of these viewpoints, not any nationality.

[RedKing]

Group hug? Followed by much vodka. And bears.

[Comrade P.]

Mictlantecuhtli, my apologies then. I wasn't really going to insult anyone, but it looks like when I went full-steam ahead to this.

So, are the both sides of accident reported to Toady satisfied now? Good. Note that please, Toady.


Back to the point... Where have we slipped into history and racial cleansing from Crimean/Ukrainian events, guys?

EDIT: I'm off to sleep.