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[olemars]

On topic, unidentified soldiers have boarded and taken control over at least four Ukrainian navy corvettes. Under normal circumstances that's an act of war. Technically so is blockading another country's ports. Sinking old ships as a blockade is probably a violation of any number of international conventions and protocols. So is having your soldiers running around without insignia.

[RedKing]

@ GI: I... don't think it's actually on fire yet, s'just Mict actively trying to set it alight. And CP helping a little, I'unno.

I've got extra matches, if anyone wants 'em.

I'm not terribly anti-Russian, and I'm not even thoroughly anti-Soviet. I can understand why they did what they did. But at the same time, I'm definitely anti-Stalin, and anti-Putin, and anti-anyone who thinks fondly on that "strong Slavic autocrat" type of ruler and thinks that Russia can't function without one.

They probably CAN'T, mind you (I think the 1990's showcased that pretty well)...but then IMHO the solution is to break Russia up into more manageable chunks than to keep putting iron-fisted powermongers in charge.


Part of my family lived in the Saratov region for around 200 years until their ethnic group began getting the shit end of the stick from neighboring Russians and the Russian Imperial government. They got out just shortly before the 1917 Revolution, which is good. Because after 1943 or so, those who were still left found themselves on trains bound for Siberia because they were deemed insufficiently loyal  because they were ethnic Germans. Ignoring the fact that when they originally migrated in the 1700s, there was no German state, and that their version of German language was so heavily divergent that it's almost unintelligible to native Germans, and that they had fought and died for the Tsar in the Russo-Japanese War....

[Comrade P.]

I don't think he cares about that, the discussion on the pro-soviet side consists entirely of falsehoods of misrepresentation anyways

Just more: "you're a westerner and soviet russia didn't do things that bad" victim complex puffing up like usual

I just invented a perfect argument I'll give towards you since now.

Spoiler: Argument for Mictlantecuhtli (click to show/hide)

Fuck you

Here I cease all the offense towards him.

Since this thread went up in flames because of my previous post, I want to say that by "sacrifices" I originally meant people sacrificing themselves for the Soviet Union (e.g. soldiers during WW2). While some may say that it is also necessary in some cases, killing political dissidents isn't a sacrifice (although if Stalinist Aztecs had existed, they would have regarded that as a genuine contribution to the country).

You mean those soldiers who were forced to attack fortified positions with rifles only because all the best equipment was used by NKVD to stop them from retreating?

Proof. I want a proof of your words.

[BlindKitty]

On topic, unidentified soldiers have boarded and taken control over at least four Ukrainian navy corvettes. Under normal circumstances that's an act of war. Technically so is blockading another country's ports. Sinking old ships as a blockade is probably a violation of any number of international conventions and protocols. So is having your soldiers running around without insignia.

I'm half sure that having soldiers run around without insignia is even a war crime under Geneva convention or something similar, but it's only half sure and Russia may not have yet signed those.
(It's actually a funny bit of trivia - Soviet soldiers during Cold War didn't know that shooting things with big red crosses on white fields on them is considered rude out there in the West.)

I don't think he cares about that, the discussion on the pro-soviet side consists entirely of falsehoods of misrepresentation anyways

Just more: "you're a westerner and soviet russia didn't do things that bad" victim complex puffing up like usual

I just invented a perfect argument I'll give towards you since now.

Spoiler: Argument for Mictlantecuhtli (click to show/hide)

Fuck you

Here I cease all the offense towards him.

Since this thread went up in flames because of my previous post, I want to say that by "sacrifices" I originally meant people sacrificing themselves for the Soviet Union (e.g. soldiers during WW2). While some may say that it is also necessary in some cases, killing political dissidents isn't a sacrifice (although if Stalinist Aztecs had existed, they would have regarded that as a genuine contribution to the country).

You mean those soldiers who were forced to attack fortified positions with rifles only because all the best equipment was used by NKVD to stop them from retreating?

Proof. I want a proof of your words.

Order No. 227 and Order No. 270 issued by the Stalin, for example. Various memoirs of the Red Army soldiers. Books about the 'Great Patriotic War' (is this the right term in English?) written by people who have no interest in conforming with the propaganda (for starters, Victor Suvorov). You know, things like that. I'm actually interested in the history of WW II, but most of my sources aren't in English (or Russian, for that matter), so I can only direct you to things that Googling 'barrier troops in Red Army' uncovers, or Suvorov books, as those are available in English for sure.

[miljan]

Proof. I want a proof of your words.

Duhh, call of duty...

[Guardian G.I.]

*pokes thread*

I think I'll leave this until it's cooled down a bit.

Me too. Let's agree to disagree, guys.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

MINSK, 20 March (BelTA) – A delegation of the NATO headquarters has arrived in Belarus on a visit until 21 March, BelTA learnt from the press service of the Defense Ministry of Belarus.

Now that IS interesting. What can they  discuss?

[Mictlantecuhtli]

On topic, unidentified soldiers have boarded and taken control over at least four Ukrainian navy corvettes. Under normal circumstances that's an act of war. Technically so is blockading another country's ports. Sinking old ships as a blockade is probably a violation of any number of international conventions and protocols. So is having your soldiers running around without insignia.

I'm half sure that having soldiers run around without insignia is even a war crime under Geneva convention or something similar, but it's only half sure and Russia may not have yet signed those.
(It's actually a funny bit of trivia - Soviet soldiers during Cold War didn't know that shooting things with big red crosses on white fields on them is considered rude out there in the West.)

I actually was just looking into this. Apparently it's not a violation. The passage pertaining to this reads:

In order to ensure respect for and protection of the civilian population and civilian objects, the Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives.

So, obviously being soldiers counts as distinction, even if not showing any insignia is still looked down on.

@Comrade Lol. Chill out dude. Did your family personally participate in the purges, or something? /sarcasm

[GlyphGryph]

MINSK, 20 March (BelTA) – A delegation of the NATO headquarters has arrived in Belarus on a visit until 21 March, BelTA learnt from the press service of the Defense Ministry of Belarus.

Now that IS interesting. What can they  discuss?

Perhaps NATO will be considering allowing Ukraine to join.

[RedKing]

MINSK, 20 March (BelTA) – A delegation of the NATO headquarters has arrived in Belarus on a visit until 21 March, BelTA learnt from the press service of the Defense Ministry of Belarus.

Now that IS interesting. What can they  discuss?

Looks like a pre-planned typical attache type meeting. Nothing major there.

[nenjin]

CP, you need to read the rules of this forum. Disagreeing with someone, and even an attitude you don't like, isn't grounds to just start throwing f-bombs around. You're bringing this discussion down, and honestly, your entire argument. Was your first warning from Toady not enough?

[Comrade P.]

@Comrade Lol. Chill out dude. Did your family personally participate in the purges, or something? /sarcasm

My family didn't. Checked that. If you are just fond of making me feel discomforted, congrats, you succeed.

CP, you need to read the rules of this forum. Disagreeing with someone, and even an attitude you don't like, isn't grounds to just start throwing f-bombs around. You're bringing this discussion down, and honestly, your entire argument. Was your first warning from Toady not enough?

That time it was BlindKitty who posted a text full of racial hatred towards Russians. Now it is my bad, I know. I'll go chill out for a while, you guys are right.

EDIT: @BlindKitty you know, you should definitely read sources beyond Victor Suvorov. Suvorov is actually translating his books to English because he is flooded with critics in his homeland. It was different from place to place. Somewhere, things like that could occur. But that was minority. Soviet Army wasn't in great condition, but not like that everywhere.

[nenjin]

@Comrade Lol. Chill out dude. Did your family personally participate in the purges, or something? /sarcasm

My family didn't. Checked that. If you are just fond of making me feel discomforted, congrats, you succeed.

CP, you need to read the rules of this forum. Disagreeing with someone, and even an attitude you don't like, isn't grounds to just start throwing f-bombs around. You're bringing this discussion down, and honestly, your entire argument. Was your first warning from Toady not enough?

That time it was BlindKitty who posted a text full of racial hatred towards Russians. Now it is my bad, I know. I'll go chill out for a while, you guys are right.

If you feel that way, report him and let Toady decide.

It's what I did with your post.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Order No. 227 and Order No. 270 issued by the Stalin, for example. Various memoirs of the Red Army soldiers. Books about the 'Great Patriotic War' (is this the right term in English?) written by people who have no interest in conforming with the propaganda (for starters, Victor Suvorov). You know, things like that. I'm actually interested in the history of WW II, but most of my sources aren't in English (or Russian, for that matter), so I can only direct you to things that Googling 'barrier troops in Red Army' uncovers, or Suvorov books, as those are available in English for sure.

Hey, wait a goddamn second... You mean this mission wasn't based on made-up stories?

[Criptfeind]

CP, you need to read the rules of this forum. Disagreeing with someone, and even an attitude you don't like, isn't grounds to just start throwing f-bombs around. You're bringing this discussion down, and honestly, your entire argument. Was your first warning from Toady not enough?

To be fair, he is pretty much right about Mictlantecuhtli, who seems to do nothing but post a single sentence flippant remark every once in a while. Although technically I agree with much of what Mictlantecuhtli says and the meaning behind his words his actions are also pretty much just deliberately provoking and not really conductive to the argument that is going on (unlike most of Comrade Ps remarks, which although I personally disagree with him he is at least trying to have a conversation with other people.)