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Author Topic: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread  (Read 305338 times)

Sheb

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1771 on: March 04, 2014, 04:00:55 am »

Oh, so economic war. By the way, wouldn't Russia lose tremendous amount of cash if it dumped all its Treasuries bills at once?
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
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GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1772 on: March 04, 2014, 04:03:37 am »

/sigh of relief

Indeed UR

Yeah sheb. And just threatening that is an opening salvo.
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Sheb

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1773 on: March 04, 2014, 04:16:48 am »

Did we talk about the proposed question for the Crimean referendum? "Crimea has state sovereignty and is a part of Ukraine, in accordance with treaties and agreements."

I'm not sure if they mistranslated the question, or if they really hope to just confuse the population into submission.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 04:27:52 am by Sheb »
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1774 on: March 04, 2014, 04:25:34 am »

It is correctly translated
You don't understand their twisted strategy

If they get "no" - that means that Crimeans don't  want to be a part of Ukraine
If they get "yes" that means that Crimeans want to become a sovereign state

Win-win

What do you expect from the "government" that has a criminal nicknamed "Goblin" as a Prime Minister? Russians should find better puppets

And better diplomats
Quote from: UN ambassador Churkin
When it comes to Ukraine, US authorities are fooled by lies from American media
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 04:30:29 am by Ukrainian Ranger »
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

olemars

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1775 on: March 04, 2014, 04:42:40 am »

Just listened to the Ukrainian ambassador to the UN (who has had the job since 2007) at the post-UNSC-meeting press conference, and he made a convincing case for why the language law issue had nothing to do with the russian language at all, that it was right to repeal it and replace it with the originally intended law (which was to align ukrainian language protections with EU frameworks), but the timing was stupid.

Also listened a bit to the Moldovan representative to the UNSC, and apparently Putin is ramping up meddling around their territory as well.

e: Also no support for Putin to be found from the Chinese.

Webcast of press conference by Ukrainian UN ambassador now available here. The language law question starts at 25:30.

Russian ambassador's press conference statements.

Here's also what the Moldovan ambassador said, which is interesting in context.
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10ebbor10

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Sheb

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1777 on: March 04, 2014, 05:36:04 am »

Interesting article, making the point that Putin ain't so much a chessmaster trying to take over the Free World(tm) as scrambling to save what can be saved of Russian influence in the region. After all, 25 years ago, Moscow controlled the whole Black Sea coast save for Turkey. Now, with Georgia definitely West and Ukraine heading that way too, all that's left is a small stretch of Russian coast and Abkhazia. The same dynamic is at play all over Europe, with the west (in the guise of the EU and NATO) surging eastward over the last 25 years.

Since as I said before Russia won't assimilate into the West, Putin understandably feel more and more isolated. After all, he may have taken Crimea, but over the last months he lost the rest of Ukraine. 

(Fun fact: the West now stretch all the way to 25° East.)
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1778 on: March 04, 2014, 06:04:12 am »

Watching Putin's press-conference.... IMO it is "hello Cold War V2.0"
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olemars

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1779 on: March 04, 2014, 06:24:36 am »

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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1780 on: March 04, 2014, 06:32:18 am »

Ukrainians are laboratory rats of the West (c) Putin

Dear Putin, *****, *******, *****, ******, ********
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

10ebbor10

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1781 on: March 04, 2014, 06:47:08 am »

Anyway, there goes the economy.

Since Ukraine couldn't afford to pay for Russian gas, Gazprom has cancelled the December bailout agreement, and is reverting to the earlier price of $400 per thousand cubic metres negotiated in the 2009 agreements. This is quite a bit higher than 280$ dollar per thousand cubic meter they paid from December till now.
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Sheb

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1782 on: March 04, 2014, 06:50:23 am »

Which means Russia broke the 2010 Kharkiv agreement that extend the lease for the Sevastopol base. So if Russia doesn't secure Crimean independence, they may lose their base in 2017.
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Darvi

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1783 on: March 04, 2014, 06:51:53 am »

Y'know even if the invaders were driven from Crimea, it would only end in a war of succession anyway. That would then escalate into a continent-wide conflict which would then end in a deicidal crusade.

SCNR
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Duuvian

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1784 on: March 04, 2014, 06:52:36 am »


Despite this I think the West should, if it appears necessary, at least agree to guarantee Ukraine with the exception of any part voting itself out of Ukraine by ballot. That guarantee would help make an occupation past Crimea less likely. If Putin is REALLY determined to keep trying to control more of Ukraine past Crimea he might encourage or take advantage of an uprising in the East of Ukraine against Kiev in the hope the new government makes similar mistakes in using violence. (However his latest statements this morning show no sign of any wish for this to happen.) By allowing a region like Crimea to leave by ballot Ukraine doesn't have to fight Russia, Putin doesn't have to spill any blood, civil strife in Ukraine is minimized and if the voting is fair the population that lives in an area chooses what happens to that area. For it to be fair there shouldn't be armed people influencing the vote and all sides of the vote should be able to run campaigns in the press. Ukraine would have to change it's Constitution as it has a chapter that any territorial changes must be approved by a nationwide referendum.
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