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[GreatWyrmGold]

Well, the main difference is that we have a completely different network of alliances today. Hitler probably wouldn't have invaded Poland if he had known he'd have to fight pretty much everybody as a consequence. Maybe he would have because he was a lunatic.

Dude. The guy invaded Russia when they had a non-aggression pact. While still at war with most of Europe.
Still, Putin isn't Hitler.

Anyway the situations do not compare at all. NATO and Russia both have nukes, so they won't fight. Ukraine isn't in NATO, so that's bad for them. Whatever the outcome of this will be, it might be bad for Ukraine, but it won't be WW3.

Well, that makes me feel better.

Which makes them pretty average internet users. Internet comments are the worst place to get an opinion on anything.

I'm sure I can think of somewhere worse! Like the drunk tank of a jail. Or the rest of a jail. Or any party's headquarters.

[Knit tie]

People on "VKontakte", meanwhile, are successfully upholding their reputation of mildly scitzophrenic, violently radical and extremely gullible idiots by crying for blood and murder and calling each other names.

Which makes them pretty average internet users. Internet comments are the worst place to get an opinion on anything.

Two of my favourite ones:
"You eat salo? I'll fuck you in the eye!"
and
"Even dying on the lands of Ukraine or getting crippled there is a rare luck for such a putrid little bitch as you, putinsucker! Fuck you and your family! Hope you die and all your friends die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!1!!!!!!1!!!11!!!cos(0)!!!"(sic)

[GreatWyrmGold]

cos(0)? That is rather more education and wit than I expected from a troll.

[XXSockXX]

Still, Putin isn't Hitler.

Oh yeah, I should have emphasized that more also, before these comparisons start again.

I'm sure I can think of somewhere worse! Like the drunk tank of a jail. Or the rest of a jail. Or any party's headquarters.

I'm not that sure. I have definitely seen more signs of intelligence on the wall of a pub toilet than in youtube comments.

[Knit tie]

Russia has a very good school education. Even our trolls know the unit circle. Regardless, "VK", Russia's main social network, has a well-deserved reputation as a crucible of the worst qualities of humanity.

Which makes them pretty average internet users. Internet comments are the worst place to get an opinion on anything.

Makes me wonder about our discussion here, by the way. We are on the internet too, you know.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Bay12 is one of those communities where the population is too low for Sturgeon's Law to come into effect.

[Knit tie]

I thought that law was about 4/5 of anything being crude?

On a more serious note, assuming the worst happens and armed combat starts, do you believe NATO will send any help to Ukraine at all? What if Ukraine capitulates?

[XXSockXX]

Which makes them pretty average internet users. Internet comments are the worst place to get an opinion on anything.

Makes me wonder about our discussion here, by the way. We are on the internet too, you know.

This:

Bay12 is one of those communities where the population is too low for Sturgeon's Law to come into effect.

Also, I was referring to comments on social media sites and stuff like that. I'd say our discussion is pretty good for the average internet discussion. We made it over 100 pages relatively peacefully. Mostly because the people who are emotionally involved in this have shown a great deal of restraint, especially Ukrainian Ranger.

On a more serious note, assuming the worst happens and armed combat starts, do you believe NATO will send any help to Ukraine at all? What if Ukraine capitulates?

NATO will not send troops, even with a full scale invasion of Ukraine. There would be no legal ground for that, because NATO only defends NATO members or acts on UN mandates.* Any troops, even peacekeepers, could only be sent by the UN. That would probably not happen either, because Russia is in the UN Security Council.
It would be a step back to Cold War times though, with Russia being pretty much isolated.

*Actually, technically they could intervene on humanitarian grounds without any legalizing mandates, like against Serbia. That is extremely unlikely though, because they certainly wouldn't risk a fight with another nuclear power.

[Knit tie]

Also, I was referring to comments on social media sites and stuff like that. I'd say our discussion is pretty good for the average internet discussion. We made it over 100 pages relatively peacefully. Mostly because the people who are emotionally involved in this have shown a great deal of restraint, especially Ukrainian Ranger.

Yes, big thanks to him for that! Poor guy, it must be really hard on him.

On a more serious note, assuming the worst happens and armed combat starts, do you believe NATO will send any help to Ukraine at all? What if Ukraine capitulates?

NATO will not send troops, even with a full scale invasion of Ukraine. There would be no legal ground for that, because NATO only defends NATO members or acts on UN mandates. Any troops, even peacekeepers, could only be sent by the UN. That would probably not happen either, because Russia is in the UN Security Council.
It would be a step back to Cold War times though, with Russia being pretty much isolated.

Then what could stop Putin from just using the ukrainian military mobilisation as a casus belli and conquering Ukraine like it's middle ages all over again? Or would that be too extreme even for him?

[Chaoswizkid]

I thought that law was about 4/5 of anything being crude?

More correctly, 90% of anything is crap.

Then what could stop Putin from just using the ukrainian military mobilisation as a casus belli and conquering Ukraine like it's middle ages all over again? Or would that be too extreme even for him?

Because he's already making everyone in the West really uneasy over just having troops in Crimea. If Putin goes for all of Ukraine, there won't be anything stopping him from doing that, but after he's done I bet everyone else in the area not a part of NATO will try to get in or in another similar Treaty Organization and the general attitude towards removing Russia from G8 and positions in the UN will change somewhat. Ukraine will be the last place he takes, or Russia will implode from internal pressures over a leader who threatens another Cold War since that would be what it means to grab anything else (or worse).

It sucks for Ukraine right now, though.

[Vattic]

Was keeping an eye on the thread anyway, but PTW.

[XXSockXX]

Then what could stop Putin from just using the ukrainian military mobilisation as a casus belli and conquering Ukraine like it's middle ages all over again? Or would that be too extreme even for him?

I don't really think anybody could or would stop him if he tried that (except of course the Ukrainians themselves, but they wouldn't have much of a chance). I just doubt he would try that because it's an extremely bad idea.
He would gain Ukraine, but it would be destabilized, impoverished economically and would probably have a resistance movement going on. With the Russian army presence he strengthens his enemies in Ukraine already, as the threat of war always strenghtens nationalists and the more extreme people on the political spectrum. 
Also he would isolate Russia internationally, it would be like the Cold War all over again. I don't know what he's up to, but I think he is smarter than that. He will try something to keep Ukraine in close ties with Russia, because he thinks he is losing Ukraine to the West. It would be more useful to him if he somehow manages that peacefully.
So, I hope at least, maybe this is all sabre-rattling, to show that Russia still wants a say in Ukraine. That's not so great either, but at least it's not a war.

BTW the G7 have cancelled the G8 meeting in Sochi now. So while there are still talks going on, that's a first taste of isolation.

[Bouchart]

If Putin goes for all of Ukraine, there won't be anything stopping him from doing that

But the Ukraine is not weak.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

BTW the G7 have cancelled the G8 meeting in Sochi now. So while there are still talks going on, that's a first taste of isolation.

Do you have a source for that? Google is failing me.
here's one



-e
Thank ye

[XXSockXX]

Do you have a source for that? Google is failing me.

It was in German news, but not on many English-speaking news sites yet:

"We, the leaders of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States and the President of the European Council and President of the European Commission, join together today to condemn the Russian Federation's clear violation of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine," the G7 said in a statement.
"We have decided for the time being to suspend our participation in activities associated with the preparation of the scheduled G8 Summit in Sochi in June," the group said.

So they are suspending preparations, not cancelling it as I wrote above.