So, I read this thread for a rather longish time now and I have to say: WTF is wrong with some people? And I'm mostly addressing people who cry for "European/NATO intervention NOW!!! Fuck Putin!!!!1111". The whole situation is a whole lot more complex than this.
Let's take a quick look at this post:
You know, loathe as I do to wish divisions between people, I would much prefer Russia quietly annexing Crimea and the west spending the next year making lame excuses about why they didn't do anything to an open confrontation. There are many negative consequences in allowing Putin to do as he pleases, but there are even more negative consequences in the western powers deploying their troops in or around the crimean territory of openly threatening Russia. A war is truly the last thing Ukraine needs in these times of tumult. Of course, the best possible situation would be Putin withdrawing his troops due to political pressure and the pro-russian ukrainians sorting thing out with their new government, but, alas, it's extremely unlikely to happen. And let's be realistic here: having one tinpot dictator ruling over Crimea instead of another would not change the lives of people much.
It's such a shame that the worst conflicts are often born of the best intentions - all the ukrainians wanted when they were protesting was a better government.
This is a very good and cool-headed post. An anexation/seccession/whatever of the Crimean penisula is certainly not in the interest of many people, which is reasonable. But at the moment, risking a war over the Crimea is something far more worse than Russia just shitting on international laws. Besides, you people do know that the population in the Crimea is majority ethnic Russian with a significant portion of the country being Tatars and Ukrainians? An european/NATO intervention would be as horrible to the Russians as an Russian invasion would be for the rest of the people there. I'm not saying that it's completly okay for Russia to invade Ukrainia (because it definitly is NOT), but I guess you have to ask the other side the same question: Is is really acceptable for EU/NATO to intervene (militarly) on the Crimea? Certainly not as long as the Ukrainian goverment doesn't ask for such help (and even then it would be a stupid decision).
To elaborate on this I have to take a look at the last sentence on the post quoted above. While the rest of the post is really good, this last sentence is utter shit (please don't take offense Knit tie, it's not personal). This whole story started as a protest against an elected head of state, sure, but it did not represent the whole Ukrainian people. In fact, a lot of the pro-Russian people in eastern Ukrainia supported Janukowitsch. Now that he was overthrown by the Maidan protesters (which were mostly from western Ukrainia and are perceived as nationalists and faschists by the eastern Ukrainian, even if this may not be true) the pro-Russian Ukrainians feel threathend by the new goverment. This is understandble, as the losing side in such a conflict is always in deep shit (and the laws banning Russian as official language on the Crimea have made this clear).
If this new goverment, which is not even perceived as legal by all of its subjects, would now call in foreign forces, it would only speed up the seperation of Ukrainia at the cost of many lives. Do note that the same is true for the Crimea right now: they call in help from Russia and thereby provoke the western Ukrainians and Tartars. In the end, the seperation of Ukrainia is certain, in my humble opinion. Involvement from either Russia or the West will only help to deepen the animosity between the various people in Ukrainia and lead to unneccessary bloodshed. If the ethnic Russian and the rest of the Ukrainians can't live together in peace, by all means seperate them in peace. There is no point in forcefully keeping a state together that falls apart on it's one.
And just as a disclaimer on the end of my post: I do not support Russia and/or it's invasion of a foreign country. But saying that Russia is "EVIL!!!!111" and that all the Ukrainians want to be liberated from Russian influence is utter bullshit. As I mentiond earlier, this situation is more than just complex and thinking in black-and-white is certainly not going to help solve this situation peacfully.
PS:
Frau Merkel, I suggest you to move German troops in Kaliningrad, name them "local self-defense squads" and hold a referendum to annex it. Apparently that is OK for 21th century politics
While I understand your frustration over this whole thing (as it is your country that is invaded) such a thing is a completly wrong thing to do. Besides the fact that (sadly) Kaliningrad/Königsberg has no tie Germany anymore (a fact which you are certainly aware of), provokation is not going to help here. As I said earlier, a seperated Ukrainia is almost a given (again, sadly). What I would do is to make sure that this seperation is a peacful as possible, both to avoid unnecessary bloodshed and to avoid a new animosity between east and west. Because that would lead to a dark future indeed.
PPS:
Does anyone see the irony of this situation happening exactly in 2014? I guess the Austrian Prime Minister and/or the Habsburg should take cover and stay clear of Belgrade for some time
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Topic: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread (Read 309354 times)