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[Guardian G.I.]

The parliament of Crimea announced a referendum on a political status of Crimea.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Considering the ethnically mixed descendents of all of those people, the Crimean Tatars, suffered ethnic cleansing at the time of WW2 (their entire population was deported by Stalin) I think they win as far as morality is concerned.

Does the suffering of a minority remove other people's right of self determination?

That is one of misconceptions of democracy - That majority can do whatever they want and minorities should shut up and comply

The basis of any stable democratic society is a political deal between majority and minorities - "Majority rules but don't use that power to make decision that are unacceptable for minorities"

So even if majority of Crimeans want to Russia that doesn't mean that they can do that.

The parliament of Crimea announced a referendum on a political status of Crimea.

LOL. Russian Media are so Russian

Guardian.... Parliament of Crimea announced = That was voted.
Not: "The Council will vote on a proposal to hold the referendum later Thursday" as you can read in the article.

[Comrade P.]

So you suggest that Russia is deliberatly trying to provoke a response out of an unstable Ukraine for entertainments sake? Shit, this might just end up in a war just as it entertains a high up Russian.

I don't think Russia is going to make an intervention. Totally unprobable. Seriously, what the heck we forgot there? We don't even have an excuse for that.

[10ebbor10]

The basis of any stable democratic society is a political deal between majority and minorities - "Majority rules but don't use that power to make decision that are unacceptable for minorities"

Belgium has a nice formalized version of that running through the political framework. It works, but it occasionally leads to funny results.

[Morrigi]

So you suggest that Russia is deliberatly trying to provoke a response out of an unstable Ukraine for entertainments sake? Shit, this might just end up in a war just as it entertains a high up Russian.

No, they just want Sevastopol because of their naval base there. They also want to protect the ethnic Russians in the area, but that seems to be a secondary objective.
It should be noted that Crimea is an autonomous republic with its own parliament and Constitution, on a comparable level to a state in the U.S.

Also, there's this: http://rt.com/news/ukraine-crimea-referendum-future-014/
Yes, I know it's from RT

[Sheb]

So a bunch of gunmen lock themselves into parliament and then parliament passed this?

Anyway, feel like the shit is going to hit the fan. I hope this doesn't turn into war. And at least, winter is mostly over, so you've got until next winter to find some non-russian gas. We really should work on modifying those pipelines to be able to bring gas eastward.

[Mephansteras]

Considering the ethnically mixed descendents of all of those people, the Crimean Tatars, suffered ethnic cleansing at the time of WW2 (their entire population was deported by Stalin) I think they win as far as morality is concerned.

Does the suffering of a minority remove other people's right of self determination?

That is one of misconceptions of democracy - That majority can do whatever they want and minorities should shut up and comply

The basis of any stable democratic society is a political deal between majority and minorities - "Majority rules but don't use that power to make decision that are unacceptable for minorities"

So even if majority of Crimeans want to Russia that doesn't mean that they can do that.

In the US that's called the Tyrrany of the Majority and is one of the things that the US system was specifically intended to counteract.

[Comrade P.]

So a bunch of gunmen lock themselves into parliament and then parliament passed this?

Anyway, feel like the shit is going to hit the fan. I hope this doesn't turn into war. And at least, winter is mostly over, so you've got until next winter to find some non-russian gas. We really should work on modifying those pipelines to be able to bring gas eastward.

Hey, I thought the alternative way of gas transport to Europe was functioning all the way. How it is called, the Northen Flow (Северный Поток, Severny Potok)? At least, in Russia I call it that way. Or is it just not big enough to take the full traffic of gas yet? Not quite sure about it.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

So a bunch of gunmen lock themselves into parliament and then parliament passed this?

The funnies part that they got zero proofs that it was actually voted and most likely they didn't  have a quorum

[XXSockXX]

So, Yanukovych is in Russia and will hold a press conference tomorrow.

[kaijyuu]

Maybe it's because of the history of my country, but raising the flag of the country you gained independence from seems to me to be in really bad taste.

[burningpet]

Didn't read most of the thread so i couldn't spot it, but, did we talk how a lot of those anti-russia protesters are openly exhibiting neo-nazis symbols/slogans?

[Sheb]

Comrade P. I did not mean to get gas to Europe, I meant to get gas to Ukraine to help them through the winter.

kaijyu, what's you're country again? I'd say Korea, but I'm probably wrong.

[Dutchling]

You would indeed be wrong.

[kaijyuu]

kaijyu, what's you're country again? I'd say Korea, but I'm probably wrong.

United States. We're pretty cool with England/the UK now, but raising an English flag without good reason will still raise some eyebrows.