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[Guardian G.I.]

Yanukovich made another written statement to Russian media. He apparently was also granted asylum in Russia.

like that small enclave north of Poland. In any case whats with that up anyway?

Kaliningrad/Königsberg and surrounding areas became part of the Soviet Union as a result of the Potsdam Agreement in 1945.

[Sheb]

I wonder if it was such a bright idea to abolish Berkut now. The new government/parliament already passed some stupid stuff (like the downgrading of the Russian language. Whatever you position on this, now is not the time to alienate the Russian-speaking folks.) and abolishing Berkut seems like one of them. If I was a former Berkut officer, no matter what I did, I'd feel edgy now.

So not surprising they want annexation by Russia: it's probably the only way they will escape retaliation.

So remember kids: when you take over a country, whether by force or by revolution, don't disband all the security services. You're just creating a big bunch of trained, armed, unemployed guys. Remember Iraq!

[Funk]

Well they haven disband the police or the army, just Berkut, so its no where near the scale of iraq and there are no army bases left with the armourys open for all.

Wouldn't the  Russian language stay on the same level in Crimea, as part of it's semi autonomous status? or is that just wishfull thinking on my part.

[Sheb]

Exactly, "not as bad". Still not a good idea.

[Helgoland]

Yanukovich made another written statement to Russian media. He apparently was also granted asylum in Russia.

like that small enclave north of Poland. In any case whats with that up anyway?

Kaliningrad/Königsberg and surrounding areas became part of the Soviet Union as a result of the Potsdam Agreement in 1945.

Post-WWII territory rearrangements were a huge clusterfuck to begin with - they just shovved Poland westwards, for example. It's best not to dispute arrangements that were agreed upon pre-45.

[MonkeyHead]

The BBC have a nice summary of the current situation in the Crimea. This could go so badly wrong... :/

[Dutchling]

The BBC have a nice summary of the current situation in the Crimea. This could go so badly wrong... :/

[Owlbread]

Russia does have a valid claim on the region, though, even if it comes from more recent times. Sevastopol was incredibly important to Russia, and remains so such that it leases military facilities from Ukraine in order to base the Black Sea Fleet there. However, it's also incredibly important to Ukraine, for similar reasons in addition to being a very, very important port.

Russia's claim is barely any more valid than their claim on the whole of Ukraine. Crimea hasn't been a part of Russia since the 1950s when it was given to Ukraine by Khrushchev.

This shouldn't be a matter of "claims" though. The age of imperialism is supposed to be over.

Let's be careful not to make out Russia as the Big Bad Guys every time something goes down. We don't want to sound like hypocrites.

Right now they certainly aren't the good guys. I can barely name a time in the last 20 years that they were. That isn't the fault of the Russian people though, and I can generally say the same of the UK.

[Kicior]

OKay i see Comrade P.s point here that Crimea once belonged to Russia some hundred years ago, but lets be honest here you took it by force of arms and it actually belongs to the Tartars and the Ukrainians.

Okay I see you point here that Crimea belongs to Ukraine now but let's be honest here, you took it by force of arms and t actually belongs to Khazars.

Wait, it belonged to Khazars some hundreds years ago but let's be honest here, they took it by force of arms and it actually belongs to Bulgars.

I think that Tauri is the furthest we can go this way so it's their rightful clay, isn't it?

Even if there is a Russian Majority in that part of the Country, it seceding would be the same as if several german cities where the turkish immigrant population is higher than that of the german natives would suddenly go "nah we want to secede to Turkey".

So how big a region must be to let its inhabitants decide for themselves?

Not to mention that if i got crimea right in my head, that its integration to Russia would look weird on the map, like that small enclave north of Poland. In any case whats with that up anyway?
But yeah my point being that it would be completely disconnected from Russia, except by sea.

Best argument ever It's not like they can't build a bridge.

Post-WWII territory rearrangements were a huge clusterfuck to begin with - they just shovved Poland westwards, for example. It's best not to dispute arrangements that were agreed upon pre-45.

No, I'm not serious

[Owlbread]

Okay I see you point here that Crimea belongs to Ukraine now but let's be honest here, you took it by force of arms and t actually belongs to Khazars.

Wait, it belonged to Khazars some hundreds years ago but let's be honest here, they took it by force of arms and it actually belongs to Bulgars.

Considering the ethnically mixed descendents of all of those people, the Crimean Tatars, suffered ethnic cleansing at the time of WW2 (their entire population was deported by Stalin) I think they win as far as morality is concerned.

[Comrade P.]

WHAT? Age of imperialism is over? Where am I? Take me baaaaaaack! Nevermind.

Well, right now in Crimea russian flags are raised. Not ukrainian. Or whatever. You see where this is going.
Oh, and they are not just waving flags. They are gathering forces. Nine companies gathered on volunteer base in Sevastopol, not speaking of russian fleet there.

Oh, and Putin declared "sudden field training of Western Group of Armies", we had it planned, he said, we have sudden field trainings planned.

[MonkeyHead]

So, is this crazy brinksmanship by Putin against a slightly unstable nation, or an internal thing?

[Dutchling]

Considering the ethnically mixed descendents of all of those people, the Crimean Tatars, suffered ethnic cleansing at the time of WW2 (their entire population was deported by Stalin) I think they win as far as morality is concerned.

Does the suffering of a minority remove other people's right of self determination?

[Comrade P.]

So, is this crazy brinksmanship by Putin against a slightly unstable nation, or an internal thing?

No, just trolling. You know, most of Russian external and sometimes internal politics is trolling. I can't really give a better explanation to what they do. Yeah, yeah, state interests, man's rights, talk whatever you want, but they make it look as if it was trolling.

[MonkeyHead]

So you suggest that Russia is deliberatly trying to provoke a response out of an unstable Ukraine for entertainments sake? Shit, this might just end up in a war just as it entertains a high up Russian.