Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 54 55 [56] 57 58 ... 286

Author Topic: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread  (Read 311484 times)

Sinistar

  • Bay Watcher
  • Absolutely detests Sinibombs
    • View Profile
    • http://dojo.fi/~rancid/loituma__.swf
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #825 on: February 24, 2014, 03:11:31 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Question for Ukrainian Ranger (or really anyone with more current information): so what happened with Klitschko? Or more specifically, what do you think the future holds for him? He was booed on the stage when he presented the deal the opposition leaders made with Yanukovych, right? Do you think he will still remain a relevant person in politics?
And what about Tymoshenko? Years ago when her trial was more relevant, I remember getting the feeling she's just another of corrupted politicians. Will she, as an "enemy" of Yanukovych, remain or become more relevant political figure in the future?
Logged
Everything is an instrument if you hit it the right way.
Oh they know. Spiders are not stupid. They've just got disproportionally huge balls.

Ukrainian Ranger

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #826 on: February 24, 2014, 03:39:48 pm »

Well, booed on the stage is something that every opposition leader experienced :) Can't say that hurt Klitchko much

I still consider him to be the favorite of presidential race. He is respected in Eastern Ukraine, he have never held any position so he has no negative history and people do believe that guy who made millions using his fists  has no intention to steal billions and build a palace for himself.

Many dislike that his team has many old faces, myself included. I'd much prefer if he did what Saakashvili did in Georgia - Mostly young specialists

Tymoshenko... One of  popular jokes in Ukrainian Internet - "If Tymoshenko will become the new president, let's not destroy barricades because we gonna need them soon". She represents old Ukrainian politics with all "good" things it had.

You see, the whole situation in Ukraine is a compromise between revolutionaries and parliament: Knowing that legitimacy is needed and a random group of people from the streets can't make new laws, armed guys on the streets allow parliament to do what it is needed. But there are very little trust* toward that guys, we totally expect that they will play political games of the past with all corruption remaining in place. Returning to pre-Yanukovitch status quo is not enough at all

*Sometimes people are too paranoid if you ask me
Logged
War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Sinistar

  • Bay Watcher
  • Absolutely detests Sinibombs
    • View Profile
    • http://dojo.fi/~rancid/loituma__.swf
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #827 on: February 24, 2014, 05:01:24 pm »

Thanks for the answers, Ukrainian Ranger. Yeah, I understand why people trust Klitchko - I too would rather trust a guy like him to run my country rather than someone who has obvious political ties.  ;D
Logged
Everything is an instrument if you hit it the right way.
Oh they know. Spiders are not stupid. They've just got disproportionally huge balls.

XXSockXX

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #828 on: February 25, 2014, 11:49:32 am »

Klitchko has officialy announced his candidacy today. He's also the favourite of the EU, they seem, from what I've read, to agree with Ukrainian Ranger's assessment that Tymoshenko is too much a part of the old order. On the other hand she is thought of as a candidate who could get along with Russia relatively easy, which might be somewhat useful right now.
Logged

Sheb

  • Bay Watcher
  • You Are An Avatar
    • View Profile
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #829 on: February 25, 2014, 11:55:05 am »

On the other hand her place if in jail.
Logged

Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Comrade P.

  • Bay Watcher
  • For space is wide and good friends are too few
    • View Profile
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #830 on: February 25, 2014, 12:27:53 pm »

Her place is in jail anyway. She is not better than Yanukovich - she'll continue performing massive thefts from state's budget.
Logged
Sigs

Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody’s gonna die. Come watch TV?

Sheb

  • Bay Watcher
  • You Are An Avatar
    • View Profile
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #831 on: February 25, 2014, 01:47:55 pm »

Yeah, I guess the best that can be said about her is that she hasn't ordered the security forces to shoot on people yet.

Anyway, I realy wish I could read Ukrainian right now. You see, a small band of journalists have taken over a guesthouse on Yanukovich's compound and started drying, scanning and uploading all the documents that were found at his house (including ~200 folders rescued from his lake by volunteer divers). There must be some interesting stuff to read in there.

Story of the journalists
YanukovychLeaks
Logged

Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

XXSockXX

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #832 on: February 25, 2014, 02:09:13 pm »

That's some fascinating stuff. They seem to have totally botched the destruction of these documents. Quite a rare opportunity to study a regime in depth. First looks seem to suggest there is also material about journalists who were persecuted in there. All stuff that might come in handy in a trial, if they can get hold of Yanukovych.
Logged

Sheb

  • Bay Watcher
  • You Are An Avatar
    • View Profile
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #833 on: February 25, 2014, 02:57:35 pm »

Tymoshenko accepted an offer to go to Germany for medical care. Hopefully it'll give her a nice way out.

BTW, if you don't already, I suggest you follow the "Euromaidan in English" page of Facebook. Great news.
Logged

Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

XXSockXX

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #834 on: February 25, 2014, 03:24:24 pm »

Good news site, yes. A bit one-sided of course. The news themselves are quite mixed I'd say, especially the passport thing. They are doing that in Estonia too though, so it's not necessarily going to go the Georgia route I guess.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 03:44:03 pm by XXSockXX »
Logged

Helgoland

  • Bay Watcher
  • No man is an island.
    • View Profile
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #835 on: February 25, 2014, 03:40:59 pm »

Tymoshenko accepted an offer to go to Germany for medical care. Hopefully it'll give her a nice way out.
I gather the German Secret Service is more capable than most people (including me) think - it won't happen, of course, but it might not be the worst option...
Logged
The Bay12 postcard club
Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Sheb

  • Bay Watcher
  • You Are An Avatar
    • View Profile
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #836 on: February 25, 2014, 03:54:00 pm »

Estonia is in NATO, Ukraine and Georgia aren't.

Helgoland, what do you mean, won't happen? Apparently Merkel offered Tymmoshenko the trip. My guess is that Merkel (like most of the West) is behind Klitshko, and want to remove Tymoshenko from Ukraine.
Logged

Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Digital Hellhound

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #837 on: February 25, 2014, 03:57:37 pm »

Wait, what? They're not gonna kill her, that's absurd. It's not like there's any reason for anyone to want that much.
Logged
Russia is simply taking an anti-Fascist stance against European Nazi products, they should be applauded. ¡No parmesan!

XXSockXX

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #838 on: February 25, 2014, 03:59:03 pm »

He's (mostly) kidding I guess. The treatment for Tymoshenko in Germany has been on the table for a long time, IIRC more than a year before the current events.
Logged

Helgoland

  • Bay Watcher
  • No man is an island.
    • View Profile
Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #839 on: February 25, 2014, 04:16:49 pm »

He's (mostly) kidding I guess. The treatment for Tymoshenko in Germany has been on the table for a long time, IIRC more than a year before the current events.
Yeah, I am (duuh :P ) - they'd never do something like that to such a high-profile person. But it's reasonable that the Western states want to keep her away from Ukraine - and I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of someone tampering with her treatment to keep her here for a longer time, if that becomes necessary.
Logged
The Bay12 postcard club
Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.
Pages: 1 ... 54 55 [56] 57 58 ... 286