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Players are much tougher than standard enemy units.

7 (53.8%)

Introduce a Fatigue system.

1 (7.7%)

Options 1+2

5 (38.5%)

No Change

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 13

[zacen299]

Some questions for you guys before I start, just looking for some general opinion:

Do you guys think the Legionary and Hastatus are too boring? I attempted to make them the most basic class, thus lacking weaknesses or great strengths, and predicted that they would be the most popular. I'm not saying you should change your class, it's just that I'd like to have as many options open as possible if anyone decides to change classes mid-game, and I don't want to take up two class-spots in the class selection process if no one is going to play this. This is important for future games too, as I planned that in many scenarios, there would be 2-3 'Standard' classes, that is, classes with conventional weapons, one ability and no weaknesses. If people don't want to play them, I'll simply just spruce them up and make every class 2 Abilities, and 1 Weakness.
I had an idea for changing the Legionary, by giving that class the extra ability 'Throw Plumbata'. Plumbata were large lead-tipped darts, almost arrows, that were thrown by hand to impale enemies from short or mid-range distance. The only thing is that because of how 'standard' a Legionary is, I can't think of a good disadvantage for the class.

Also, I was planning for the turns to be set up as 1. All Players perform their actions in a randomized order. 2. All Enemy Units perform their actions in a randomized order. Would anyone like it changed so that each action was randomized, so that the turn might be something like: 2 Player Actions, 1 Enemy Action, 1 Player Action, 3 Enemy Actions, 2 Player Actions, etc.? Or should I keep it how it is?

No comment on turn order. But for the Legionary at very least. I think rather than average he comes off as sub-par. His one ability is in my opinion utter crap. Hastatus I can see having a use but the the Legionaries just seem sub-par I don't know what everyone else thinks but that's my two cents.

[kj1225]

I found that they lack flavor.

[Remuthra]

It's my opinion that the standard classes in general lack nuance, one might say. Because there's nothing special about them, there's also nothing interesting, so they are quickly discarded in favor of classes that would be more fun to play as. Even if the standard guy was more powerful, would you rather play as the man who attacks something, or the man who chooses to sacrifice his defense in a vulnerable position in hopes of breaking through to an important enemy position? There's just more choice involved when you play as a specialist of some sort.

[TCM]

No comment on turn order. But for the Legionary at very least. I think rather than average he comes off as sub-par. His one ability is in my opinion utter crap. Hastatus I can see having a use but the the Legionaries just seem sub-par I don't know what everyone else thinks but that's my two cents.

Ah, so the Legionary ability isn't good. That's understandable, I just thought that the threat of being injured or killed by a counter-attack would be enough to prompt some people into playing a class that has some insurance for blocking counter-attacks. What sort of ability would you rather see a Legionary having that's relevant to his position? Do you thinking adding a Plumbata option would help, and if so, what should the Legionary's weakness be?

I found that they lack flavor.

This one is a bit more problematic, as really, I have to agree with you. It's really unfortunate that the best ancient European armies seem to founded on a soldier who consists of "Spear And/Or Sword, Shield, Helmet, Armor." It's the same reason why I don't want to do the Spartans, who I feel are the most egregious example of the Boring But Practical Ancient warrior. I'd probably like them a whole lot more if instead of sticking with the cliche 'Sharp Weapon + Big Shield' combo, they were armed with Spiked Warhammers and Flaming Whips, or anything interesting really.
The dull Legionary is a necessary evil for this scenario, you can't exclude him given his importance in the Roman military, but he's not too flashy overall. I guess I just thought that smashing someone's face with the edge of your shield and then stabbing them in the chest with a Gladius would be cool. Now that's an idea, maybe he could replace his current ability with a 'Shield Bash'?

[Remuthra]

Should have gone with Sarmatia .

By the way, those should technically be Principes, not Legionnaires, considering the time period, just so you know.

[Rolepgeek]

You could have Centurion as a class, with a group of Legionnaires. By which I mean five or so. I mean, really, the interesting stuff about the Legionnaires was how well they work together,

Actually, speaking of that, you could do stuff that Legionnaires get bonuses when helping people and working together and such. Testudo formation, of course.

I would advise giving Legionnaires a Pilum as well, and giving Hastati several, perhaps.'

EDIT: If looking for a disadvantage, you could make them weaker when having to fight alone. Or, I remember that the Romans got their armies by having a rule that to be a Roman citizen, you had to serve in the army for 25 years. Which means they were foreigners, and might not be veterans in the army....

[TCM]

Should have gone with Sarmatia .

By the way, those should technically be Principes, not Legionnaires, considering the time period, just so you know.

Good to know, Western Ancient History has never been my strong suit.

And since you seem to enjoy knowing all the historical details I'm using and such, the Barbarians we are facing are Germanic, specifically Frankish.

As for the Sarmatians, they seem cool and all, but if we were to do a Scenario with Horse Archers, we could switch the Golden Horde Scenario around and have the Players controlling the Mongols against some other force. I feel like that would be a more accessible scenario than the Sarmatians as: 1. The Mongols are better known. 2. Due to their huge area of conquest, their enemies are also more familiar, such as the Chinese, the Arabs, and Eastern Europeans. 3. Besides Horse Archery, their infantry was packed with all sorts of cool weapons like sabers and maces. It's not the Sarmatians are lame, I would just assume they wouldn't be everyone's first pick.

[Rolepgeek]

Should have gone with Sarmatia .

By the way, those should technically be Principes, not Legionnaires, considering the time period, just so you know.

Good to know, Western Ancient History has never been my strong suit.

And since you seem to enjoy knowing all the historical details I'm using and such, the Barbarians we are facing are Germanic, specifically Frankish.

As for the Sarmatians, they seem cool and all, but if we were to do a Scenario with Horse Archers, we could switch the Golden Horde Scenario around and have the Players controlling the Mongols against some other force. I feel like that would be a more accessible scenario than the Sarmatians as: 1. The Mongols are better known. 2. Due to their huge area of conquest, their enemies are also more familiar, such as the Chinese, the Arabs, and Eastern Europeans. 3. Besides Horse Archery, their infantry was packed with all sorts of cool weapons like sabers and maces. It's not the Sarmatians are lame, I would just assume they wouldn't be everyone's first pick.

In all honesty, I'm disappointed there's no Carthage scenario.

[Remuthra]

Should have gone with Sarmatia .

By the way, those should technically be Principes, not Legionnaires, considering the time period, just so you know.

Good to know, Western Ancient History has never been my strong suit.

And since you seem to enjoy knowing all the historical details I'm using and such, the Barbarians we are facing are Germanic, specifically Frankish.

As for the Sarmatians, they seem cool and all, but if we were to do a Scenario with Horse Archers, we could switch the Golden Horde Scenario around and have the Players controlling the Mongols against some other force. I feel like that would be a more accessible scenario than the Sarmatians as: 1. The Mongols are better known. 2. Due to their huge area of conquest, their enemies are also more familiar, such as the Chinese, the Arabs, and Eastern Europeans. 3. Besides Horse Archery, their infantry was packed with all sorts of cool weapons like sabers and maces. It's not the Sarmatians are lame, I would just assume they wouldn't be everyone's first pick.

Do they have Naked Fanatics?

[TCM]

You could have Centurion as a class, with a group of Legionnaires. By which I mean five or so. I mean, really, the interesting stuff about the Legionnaires was how well they work together,

Actually, speaking of that, you could do stuff that Legionnaires get bonuses when helping people and working together and such. Testudo formation, of course.

I would advise giving Legionnaires a Pilum as well, and giving Hastati several, perhaps.'

EDIT: If looking for a disadvantage, you could make them weaker when having to fight alone. Or, I remember that the Romans got their armies by having a rule that to be a Roman citizen, you had to serve in the army for 25 years. Which means they were foreigners, and might not be veterans in the army....

Group Classes are cool and all, but it's a bit too late in my set-up to implement them now. Perhaps in a different Scenario.

Those are good suggestions for Legionary changes though. How about his abilities would be updated to:

Testudo Formation (Passive): Legionaries hold extensive knowledge of the famous Testudo Formation, which involves packing in closely with other soldiers to form a collective protection unit. Utilizing this tactic means that the Legionary gets a +1 to Combat when Attacking an Enemy Unit that is simultaneously being Attacked by another Player.
Throw Plumbata (Active): The Legionary throws the Plumbata, a long lead-tipped dart, at an enemy in an attempt to impale them. +1 to Attack when used, 2-Turn Cooldown.
Group Specialist: The Legionary is taught to train as a synergized unit with other soldiers, not on his own. -1 to Combat with an Enemy Unit not being attacked by another Player.

I'd rather have the Legionary have a Plumbata, rather than a javelin which is what several other classes already have. Also, the whole 'weapon shortage due to collapse of the Empire' becomes more credible in that case.

In all honesty, I'm disappointed there's no Carthage scenario.

I was trying to balance the possible Eras for the Scenarios evenly. A few ancient, a few medieval, a few colonial/industrial, and a few modern. Plus, as I stated before, I'm not very knowledgeable about Ancient Western History, but I think it's cool regardless and it would be unfair for me to leave Ancient scenarios out.

Tell you what, and this goes for anyone else who really wants a certain scenario:

If you really wish for a certain scenario to be created, and have some spare time, you can create it yourself! Similarly to what I've done, find an Era, and which side the Players would as opposed to which Enemy side. Then, create 7-12 varied Player Classes, using the system I've done for the Romans. It would also help if you made some Enemy Classes, which are created in the same way Player Classes are (Name, Description, 1 Ability or 2 Abilities/1 Weakness, Inventory, Point Value) but don't have to be balanced the same what that Player Classes are, as long as each Enemy Unit has an appropriate Point Value relative to the other Enemies. I'll review what you have, and I may make a few adjustments for the sake of balance, but you have a good chance of getting your Scenario added to the list. There is no guarantee if/when it will be played, as that's up to the Voting Poll.

Do they have Naked Fanatics?

When they were pillaging and raping, I assume so. Did the Smartians have Naked Fanatics? I didn't see a description of those in the Barbarian TW Mod Site.

[zacen299]

You could have Centurion as a class, with a group of Legionnaires. By which I mean five or so. I mean, really, the interesting stuff about the Legionnaires was how well they work together,

Actually, speaking of that, you could do stuff that Legionnaires get bonuses when helping people and working together and such. Testudo formation, of course.

I would advise giving Legionnaires a Pilum as well, and giving Hastati several, perhaps.'

EDIT: If looking for a disadvantage, you could make them weaker when having to fight alone. Or, I remember that the Romans got their armies by having a rule that to be a Roman citizen, you had to serve in the army for 25 years. Which means they were foreigners, and might not be veterans in the army....

Group Classes are cool and all, but it's a bit too late in my set-up to implement them now. Perhaps in a different Scenario.

Those are good suggestions for Legionary changes though. How about his abilities would be updated to:

Testudo Formation (Passive): Legionaries hold extensive knowledge of the famous Testudo Formation, which involves packing in closely with other soldiers to form a collective protection unit. Utilizing this tactic means that the Legionary gets a +1 to Combat when Attacking an Enemy Unit that is simultaneously being Attacked by another Player.
Throw Plumbata (Active): The Legionary throws the Plumbata, a long lead-tipped dart, at an enemy in an attempt to impale them. +1 to Attack when used, 2-Turn Cooldown.
Group Specialist: The Legionary is taught to train as a synergized unit with other soldiers, not on his own. -1 to Combat with an Enemy Unit not being attacked by another Player.

I'd rather have the Legionary have a Plumbata, rather than a javelin which is what several other classes already have. Also, the whole 'weapon shortage due to collapse of the Empire' becomes more credible in that case.

I think for the ancient scenarios group classes should be the norm. Most ancient styles of fighting were about sticking a bunch of guys in a line and having them use weapons built for that. The only real exceptions were mainly horse archers and some barbarian tribes, and both of them specialized in breaking (and or harassing) lines. Pike and spearmen in particular need more than one person to make sense if you know how you're supposed to fight with a pike or spear or heck even a halberd.

[TCM]

I think for the ancient scenarios group classes should be the norm. Most ancient styles of fighting were about sticking a bunch of guys in a line and having them use weapons built for that. The only real exceptions were mainly horse archers and some barbarian tribes, and both of them specialized in breaking (and or harassing) lines. Pike and spearmen in particular need more than one person to make sense if you know how you're supposed to fight with a pike or spear or heck even a halberd.

Perhaps so, though this game always takes place in a situation where well defined and organized lines explicitly can not be made. If you have enough men in an army to form a solid line to appropriately stop opposing armies from advancing, you haven't reached Last Stand-level of hopelessness. If there are any large formations left in Rome, there all off defending the more vital parts of the Empire, rather than this normal small town that this game is occupied in. Group Units are cool, but they'd be better suited in another game, particularly one that emphasizes grand strategy rather than the remnants of a broken army futility trying to protect their homeland from overwhelming forces. 

[Rolepgeek]

However, a Japanese scenario with Samurai would make incredible amounts of sense for this game.

Like, seriously, it's ridiculous; Last Stand, individual fighting, elite warriors? Yes, yes, and yes. Plus all of the different weapons they had, although there wouldn't be TOO many classes, I think.

[TCM]

However, a Japanese scenario with Samurai would make incredible amounts of sense for this game.

Like, seriously, it's ridiculous; Last Stand, individual fighting, elite warriors? Yes, yes, and yes. Plus all of the different weapons they had, although there wouldn't be TOO many classes, I think.

I was thinking of doing a Feudal Japan Scenario, and classes wouldn't be just limited to Samurai, as the different variant of warriors, like Ashigaru and Ninja, would help increase diversity. The main problem is that I like the Scenario to be between two differently armed forces, as to keep things interesting with different kinds of fighters clashing and different weapons present on both sides. Who else would a Feudal Japanese army battle than another Japanese army? Were there ever invaders during this period?

[Remuthra]

However, a Japanese scenario with Samurai would make incredible amounts of sense for this game.

Like, seriously, it's ridiculous; Last Stand, individual fighting, elite warriors? Yes, yes, and yes. Plus all of the different weapons they had, although there wouldn't be TOO many classes, I think.

I was thinking of doing a Feudal Japan Scenario, and classes wouldn't be just limited to Samurai, as the different variant of warriors, like Ashigaru and Ninja, would help increase diversity. The main problem is that I like the Scenario to be between two differently armed forces, as to keep things interesting with different kinds of fighters clashing and different weapons present on both sides. Who else would a Feudal Japanese army battle than another Japanese army? Were there ever invaders during this period?

Aliens. It makes perfect sense if you don't think about it.