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[Urist McTeellox]

Meph/All: Can anyone spot what I'm doing wrong here?  I've got:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SCALP_TEMPLATE]
    [STATE_COLOR:ALL:MAUVE]
    [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:bloody]
    [DISPLAY_COLOR:4:0:0]
    [ROTS]
    [BUTCHER_SPECIAL:MEAT:NONE]
    [MEAT_NAME:NONE:scalp:scalps]
    [REACTION_CLASS:SCLAP]

[CREATURE:SCALP_DROW]
    [NAME:drow:drow:drow]
    [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MUSCLE:SCALP_TEMPLATE]
    [SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL][ARENA_RESTRICTED][DOES_NOT_EXIST]
    [REACTION_CLASS:DROW]

# Ditto above for CREATURE:SCALP_ELF, etc

[REACTION:CHEAT_ORC_SCALPS]
    [NAME:Spawn fresh scalps]
    [BUILDING:CHEAT:NONE]
    [PRODUCT:100:5:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:SCALP_DWARF:MUSCLE]
    [PRODUCT:100:5:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:SCALP_ELF:MUSCLE]
    [PRODUCT:100:5:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:SCALP_DROW:MUSCLE]
    [PRODUCT:100:5:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:SCALP_HUMAN:MUSCLE]

[REACTION:PREPARE_SCALP]
    [NAME:Prepare a scalp]
    [BUILDING:TANNER:NONE]
    [REAGENT:A:1:MEAT:NONE:NONE:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:SCALP]
    [PRODUCT:100:1:TOOL:PREPARED_SCALP:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
    [SKILL:LEATHERWORK]


I can spawn scalps at the cheat workshop, but I can't for the life of me get the reaction at the tanner to work, and I have no idea why.

Meph, I've slimmed down your material template, because almost all the default tags for materials are fine. While I'm not sure if I should use [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SCALP_TEMPLATE] rather than [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MUSCLE:SCALP_TEMPLATE] in SCALP_DROW or not, but I don't think that's the issue.

As an aside, I've changed the EBO for scalps to be associated with the skull. (I presume this means if an enemy get decapitated, one needs to retrieve their skull to get the scalp.)  That's obviously not related to my issue above, but I thought I'd mention it in case there's a reason that's a bad idea, and I don't have to discover it during testing.

Code: [Select]

[EXTRA_BUTCHER_OBJECT:BY_CATEGORY:SKULL][EBO_ITEM:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:SCALP_ELF:MUSCLE]

All of the above is up on the orc_rebalance branch (which is still a work in progress).

I am liking all of the ideas I am seeing here.  Particularly the modular ritual circle.  I would suggest "ritual circle" or "orcish spirit circle" as the name of the building.  Each module would be called something like "node of earth" or "node of exsanguinated elf" (for elf reactions), "node of fire"/"node of the disemboweled dwarf" (for dwarf reaction) and so on, as appropriate for the theme you chose.

Thank you! And thank you for the suggested names!

~ T

[Meph]

It doesnt work, because I guess I made a typo?

In the reaction you call for: [REACTION_CLASS:SCALP] sCAlp
In the template I see a: [REACTION_CLASS:SCLAP]  sCLap

Why change from THOUGHT to SKULL? Thought = Brain, which is in the skull anyway.

[Urist McTeellox]

In the reaction you call for: [REACTION_CLASS:SCALP] sCAlp
In the template I see a: [REACTION_CLASS:SCLAP]  sCLap

Oh! I never would have spotted that on my own!  So let me fix all occurrences of me making REACTION_CLASS typos forever! I've updated lint-raws.pl to spot when a reaction class has only been used once. Most of the results look harmless, but now if I typo SCALP in the future, I should see it when I run my checking tools:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Reaction class used only once: 50
Reaction class used only once: ACID
Reaction class used only once: AGED_BLOODWINE_MAT
Reaction class used only once: BLOODWINE_MAT
Reaction class used only once: BONE
Reaction class used only once: DFHACK_OCEAN_WAVE
Reaction class used only once: DRAGONFIRE
Reaction class used only once: DRY_HEARTSTONE
Reaction class used only once: GRANITE
Reaction class used only once: IS_HEART
Reaction class used only once: IS_HOOF
Reaction class used only once: IS_STOMACH
Reaction class used only once: IS_TOOTH
Reaction class used only once: LEATHER_LAMELLAR
Reaction class used only once: SPOILED_BLOODWINE_MAT
Reaction class used only once: STEEL
Reaction class used only once: TOTEM_AMMO_KOBOLD_BLIND_EMISSION
Reaction class used only once: TOTEM_AMMO_KOBOLD_POLYMORPH_EMISSION
Reaction class used only once: TOTEM_AMMO_KOBOLD_SLEEP_EMISSION
Reaction class used only once: TOTEM_AMMO_KOBOLD_SPORE_EMISSION
Reaction class used only once: TOTEM_AMMO_KOBOLD_VOODOO_EMISSION
Reaction class used only once: TOTEM_AMMO_KOBOLD_WEB_EMISSION
Reaction class used only once: WATER


I'm pretty sure I should be releasing lint-raws.pl as a stand-alone tool, it's actually reached the point where other people may find it useful. (It checks for missing reactions, duplicate hotkeys, malformed headers, and now possible REACTION_CLASS typos.)

Why change from THOUGHT to SKULL? Thought = Brain, which is in the skull anyway.

This happened because I was tired, and I couldn't for the life of me figure out what body part a 'thought' was.

If it's problematic with scalps being attached to the skull, I'll move them back to the brain.

Thanks again for your help! You rock!

~ T

[Urist McTeellox]

Also I can now prepare scalps! Huzzah!

[Urist McTeellox]

Oh goodness, I see why making things nice for stockpiles is so darn hard now. The stockpile menu just lets me select 'tools' (but not their subtype), and I can't for the life of me find how to select only tools made from a particular creature mat. (I could have prepared scalps be an inorganic, but that feels inelegant!)

What I can do is provide sorting reactions in a workshop.  'Sort elf scalps' takes an item with [ELF] and [SCALP] reaction classes, and outputs the exact same item. Leave the skill off, and it's an instant reaction with no XP. That means one can use stockpile links to move subtypes around with a little manual effort. I think there's scope for a generic 'sorting bench' workshop (1x1, just a table) which allows for all sorts of sorting reactions. I know personally I would love a 'sort cotton clothing' reaction to sift all my invader's clothing into the trade stockpile.

But the good news it that scalps are prepared correctly now, and they have sensible names. They still seem to have *quality*, so one can end up with masterwork scalps, even though they shouldn't have any quality levels at all.  I thought [UNIMPROVABLE] on the item raw would fix this, but apparently that just stops one from studding the scalp with gems.

~ T

[Meph]

All tools have quality. You can make them... bars. Or blocks. Or boulders. Or muscle that doesnt rot.

I'm pretty sure I should be releasing lint-raws.pl as a stand-alone tool, it's actually reached the point where other people may find it useful. (It checks for missing reactions, duplicate hotkeys, malformed headers, and now possible REACTION_CLASS typos.)

I would have a look for sure. It would help cleaning up raws for MDF, which at some point I just have to do. ^^ Or you can just post a list of the scripts output, thats fine by me. Enough to look up stuff.

'sorting bench' workshop (1x1, just a table)

=> Bad idea. Or maybe good idea, but bad game design. A 1x1 workshop that looks like a normal table, will be impossible to find in a large fort, because it is visually indistinguisable from a normal table. Yes, you can just build a new one, but workshops should look somewhat unique and recognizeable. Are you sure that "prepare scalp" cant be added to the tanner? Tanners work with leather and skin all the time, and are usually build close to the butchery anyway. I dont know if "scalp sorting" merits a unique workshop.

[Urist McTeellox]

All tools have quality. You can make them... bars. Or blocks. Or boulders. Or muscle that doesnt rot.

Damn you Dwarf Fortress and your crazy oddities!  I'm going to leave them as tools for now.

I'm pretty sure I should be releasing lint-raws.pl as a stand-alone tool, it's actually reached the point where other people may find it useful. (It checks for missing reactions, duplicate hotkeys, malformed headers, and now possible REACTION_CLASS typos.)

I would have a look for sure. It would help cleaning up raws for MDF, which at some point I just have to do. ^^ Or you can just post a list of the scripts output, thats fine by me. Enough to look up stuff.

Sure! Here's the current output.  As for doing cleaning up of raws, I would be really nice to Sage Ethereal. He did an amazing job with the hotkeys, and from our PMs I'm very sure he's got the right idea about how to go about things. The duplicate-hotkey section of my linting code was specifically to help Sage spot hotkey conflicts.

'sorting bench' workshop (1x1, just a table)

=> Bad idea. Or maybe good idea, but bad game design. A 1x1 workshop that looks like a normal table, will be impossible to find in a large fort, because it is visually indistinguisable from a normal table. Yes, you can just build a new one, but workshops should look somewhat unique and recognizeable. Are you sure that "prepare scalp" cant be added to the tanner? Tanners work with leather and skin all the time, and are usually build close to the butchery anyway. I dont know if "scalp sorting" merits a unique workshop.

Prepare scalp is already on the tanner. But as you said, tanners also tan leather, and clean feathers, and all the other things. So you end up with all your different scalps in one big stockpile. If you wanted to sort the elf scalps out separately because you wish to save them (eg: because you're saving up enough to build a Monument of the Razed Forest), then there's currently no good way of doing that. And Orcish players will definitely want to be saving up particular scalp types, because in milestone 2 they'll be needed for certain building unlocks.

Sorting benches are only useful in moving items into stockpiles, so it makes sense to put them next to (or even inside) the stockpile they're sorting into. Most people don't have tables sitting next to their stockpiles, so I think they'd stand out enough.

I'm pretty darn sure I've seen sorting benches in other mods, but I can't remember which ones (I suspect My Little Fortress: Losing is Magic). In any case, it wouldn't be a 'just scalps' thing; we regularly see people asking 'how do I get a stockpile that only accepts X' (where X is something that's really hard to select in the stockpile options).  I know that I spent hours trying to get stockpiles to only accept orcish raiding materials (longboats and weapon-kits), and a sorting bench would make that dead simple.

~ T

[Meph]

Now I am not entirely sure what you mean by sorting bench. What exactly does it do?

The way I see it is that the scalps already have the elf, human, kobolds and so on, material on them. So why sort them? Do you mean that you have a reaction that accepts all scalps, but you want to stockpile-feed it with only non-elf scalps and save them? This could be avoided by splitting the "all scalps" reaction into one for each type. This would mean more reactions in one workshop, but way less micromanagement for players, especially if they use the manager to run them.

And that output is very helpful. If I were you I would release the program, together with the output (as an example for how messed up raws can get) in the utility section. Its like an advanced version of the DF errorlog.

[Urist McTeellox]

The way I see it is that the scalps already have the elf, human, kobolds and so on, material on them. So why sort them? Do you mean that you have a reaction that accepts all scalps, but you want to stockpile-feed it with only non-elf scalps and save them? This could be avoided by splitting the "all scalps" reaction into one for each type. This would mean more reactions in one workshop, but way less micromanagement for players, especially if they use the manager to run them.

Let's say that I have 2 dwarf scalps, 3 elf scalps, 3 human scalps, 5 drow scalps. A "standard of honor" requires ten scalps of any type, and is used in unlocking basic buildings like the Caravanasi. I can't say "make standard of honor from drow scalps", because I don't have enough to make it entirely from drow scalps. However if I sort dwarf, human, and drow scalps into a stockpile, and use stockpile links, then I can have it created from exactly what I want. This lets me save my elf scalps for a higher-level, elf-scalp-only unlock later.

I *could* have a reaction which turns a specific scalp into a generic scalp of some sort, and only allow *that* to be used in reactions which don't care about scalp types. But that has a bigger 'oops' factor, if you end up converting a scalp by accident. Advanced players are pretty used to using stockpile links to make sure a workshop only uses materials of a certain type, so a sorting bench provides an easy way to get otherwise hard-to-select types into those stockpiles.

All reactions would use [PRESERVE_REAGENT] so no changes would be done to the item, it'd just take a single input and return it. There'd be no skill on the workshop, so reactions would complete instantly with no XP. It's essentially a "haul this item to my linked stockpile" reaction, and so benches would only be useful in combination with linked stockpiles. One could have (for example) separate pen, paper, and ink stockpiles by having the appropriate sort reactions on the bench.  I really like having separate stockpiles for things, because it means I can see visually how my fortress is progressing.

And that output is very helpful. If I were you I would release the program, together with the output (as an example for how messed up raws can get) in the utility section. Its like an advanced version of the DF errorlog.

Thanks! I'll see what I can do about cleaning it up a little and making it possible to switch linting options on and off appropriately.

~ T

[Meph]

 

I am absolutely confused. Why?

Yes, you can make a custom workshop with custom reactions that are intended to be used with custom stockpile feeding, into a stockpile that custom feeds another custom workshop... but... what? You can just use stockpile settings. Go to the stockpile, say: "Only accept human/drow/dwarf scalps", then link that stockpile to the workshop with the "accept any scalp" reaction. The elf scalps will not be stockpiled in it, and will not be accepted by the reaction.

Is this online? Because if it is, I might just download it and make a screenshot of the stockpile settings I mean. I have the feeling that we are talking around each other.

[Urist McTeellox]

Yes, you can make a custom workshop with custom reactions that are intended to be used with custom stockpile feeding, into a stockpile that custom feeds another custom workshop... but... what? You can just use stockpile settings. Go to the stockpile, say: "Only accept human/drow/dwarf scalps", then link that stockpile to the workshop with the "accept any scalp" reaction. The elf scalps will not be stockpiled in it, and will not be accepted by the reaction.

How? The prepared scalps are a tool (and so not selectable by sub-type) and they're made of a creature mat (specific creature mats are not selectable for tools), and even if they were they'd have names like 'orc' or 'drow', rather than 'dwarf scalp' and 'elf scalp'.

I might be missing something entirely obvious here. I really, really hope I am. But I can't for the life of me figure out how to get a stockpile that only accept some scalps and not others.

Is this online? Because if it is, I might just download it and make a screenshot of the stockpile settings I mean. I have the feeling that we are talking around each other.

I suspect we might be. https://github.com/pjf/masterwork-dwarf-fortress/archive/orc_rebalance.zip is the current work-in-progress, but it's not in a fully-playable state. You'll want to add cheats to the orc entity file. The last reaction here makes a bunch of fresh scalps:

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[PERMITTED_BUILDING:CHEAT]
    [PERMITTED_REACTION:CHEAT_ORC_BUILD_MATERIALS]
    [PERMITTED_REACTION:CHEAT_ORC_TOOLS]
    [PERMITTED_REACTION:CHEAT_ORC_SCALPS]

The tannery lets you turn fresh scalps into processed ones.

~ T

[Meph]

You were right, there is no material selection for it. I was sure that "other materials" would list it, but its only bone and leather... not muscles/meat. 

[megahelmet]

There isn't a way to create dreamwalkers is there? (I was still figuring out magic when my last fort fell).

Perhaps, if there was a ritualistic altar where orcs could bathe in blood under the power of ancient magic to transform. Must be built outside. Must have a water source. Not all orcs survive. Only 10% survive. Orcs that die leave behind a piece of unworthy soul (or something). 10 of those can be used to insure a transformation success.

The blueprints could be with the warlocks. They need a reason to be genned in the world anyway.

[Urist McTeellox]

There isn't a way to create dreamwalkers is there? (I was still figuring out magic when my last fort fell).

Nope. But they can be born, and they'll arrive in migration waves. They're not that uncommon; I often get one on embark, and a couple more from migrations in the first year or two. It doesn't feel thematic to have them 'created', they're like orcs and snagas and uruks, a genetic variation that is sometimes seen.

The blueprints could be with the warlocks. They need a reason to be genned in the world anyway.

I'm hoping to keep the tech-unlocks with particular races. It might make sense to move the library blueprints to warlocks when they come in. (Or have them unlockable via warlocks as well as drow).

In other news, where it makes sense to do so, I'm putting orcish rebalance changes into SWP when they're compatible with the existing release. The most excited of which I'm excited about is that orc castes now show on embark:

• Orcish tribal embark actually includes wolves, and no longer blows point balance. (McTeellox)
• Orcfort: All orcs now show their castes on embark (McTeellox)

[Gamerlord]

Hallelujah for the caste showing, though I'd still be checking the Uruk/Ronin strengths because if they're 'weak' or lower I name them 'Weakhearts' and treat them like dirt.