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[Kaos]

I made skeletons opposed to life, and you need Warlocks to keep them under control now.   They are also no longer genderless, as this caused weird friendships and even marriages. They are now all male. Some of the warlock witches will still marry them, but hey, why not?

this gives a new meaning to "getting boned"!

[Meph]

Hm... about the pylons...
3 things:

a) I would suggest to make control radius and power radius the same. Yes this leads to double coverage for most areas, but in return simplifies the system, imho. But maybe this is just my personal preference But it is imho much simpler, if you just say, the pylon powers everything (other pylon/skel) in that one radius
b) is it really a sphere? or a cube? So is really only one tile controlled on z+-15?
c) Those pylons are destructible? Because right now I just see everyone to build a pylon network 5 z levels below ground. Then no enemy will ever reach those and skels can fight on the surface without any issues.
If you want to make those pylons valuable and force the player to take care of his pylons (or at least invest a bit more in them by walling each of them in) you could (it it is possible) make them only transferring power/control on their zlevel and add a second type called transfer pylon that can not control skels, but power other pylons across zlevels. If you follow a), you could give those transfer pylons a longer range, but keep the control pylons at a range of 20 or something alike.
This would require control pylons on every level, where skels stay for longer times. No need for it in stairways, as they pass through those fairly quick anyway.

Hehe, you suggest one thing to make it simpler, and one thing to make it harder. Ok, lets see: Doubling the control radius would mean you need only half the pylons. Reducing the power radius means you need twice the pylons. I did spend a lot of thought on the difference. Because you can set up pylons 30 tiles away, they are powered, and their control range with 2x15 just touches.

It should be a sphere. Its TARGET_RANGE:A:30, so... should be a sphere. But honestly there is no way to check, except building a very precise arena for this.

They are destructable. They are tiny, immobile creatures. The underground pylon network sounds awesome, but of course you spotted an exploit with only one glance... well... I can make them control only in line of sight, but power across zlevels, but I fear for mining-tunnels. Miners would constantly get confused while digging out ore-veins, because of all the bends and leaving the line of sight for long times.

This is one of these things that only long term testing can show. I know how to write both systems, but I have no idea how balanced they will be in the end. If everything fails: Use ghouls. ^^

I don't suppose a transformation would work? Rather than blinking you transform them between two states? Don't Pylons have to undergo a transformation in the first place once they're made in order to get them to do stuff? I recall that earlier on.

Every time a creature transforms in the mod, a popup shows up and the game pauses. If people have a 200 skeleton fort, with 100 pylons, and something happens to unpower part of your network, it will spam the living hell out of the player. It will also fully heal the pylon. I add their abilities with interactions btw, no need for transformation.

Kaos:  (I might actually have to take out witches, to ensure that the civ dies out in worldgen... but... but... I need female civ members for the Mistress noble. )

[mahrgell]

Yeah, always make some things simpler for making other stuff harder And it felt this was a change that wouldn't lose much benefit.

For checking those spheres:
Build pylon, build 13z, 9x and 9y away a small room, lock skel in it. Wait. End of test ^^ Not that much precision required
If it is a cylinder or a cube the skel remains under control, if it is a sphere, it doesn't.

And about mining: As warlocks are supposed to shredder most rocks/ores anyway, is there any reason besides habit to dig out long winding tunnels instead of strip mining?
I would be more worried about stuff like sleeping rooms, unless you plan open dormitories for those skels. Warlocks with their insane needs luckily don't need pylons ^^

[Meph]

shredder most rocks

They dont shredder rocks. Only ores.

sleeping rooms

lol. Skeletons dont sleep. They dont need rooms. They dont have emotions, and wouldnt even feel bad about having none. They also dont need clothes, and therefore no chests/cabinets.

[shadowclasper]

Ouch, yeah... that is a problem.

Is there something they could do to attract attention to themselves? I know we discussed contaminents before... but... and just talking off the top of my head here. Can you have it so that while a Pylon is unpowered they drop a contaminent that will draw the attention of anybody with free time (such as your nonnoble warlocks who are walking around just learning spells) to clean them? Or heck, even if it doesn't attract a warlock, it could splash color onto the screen once a month to alert the player that there's a hole in their pylon network?. Drops it once a month or once every 3 months so people aren't constantly spending time cleaning it up, but still gives you a decent chance of seeing it happen?

Or does this run into the same problem of 'being able to add stuff but not take it away"? Would an unpowered pylon who began splashing purple 'pylon decay' in a 3x3 area around itself never stop doing so even if it was powered again?

Another possibility if that they produce an object like a soul right on their own tile so they'll start flashing back and forth with it, when they become unpowered? It obviously wouldn't be a soul, it'd be some sort of object that was a plant that wasn't used for any sort of reaction, wasn't edible, etc.

Pylon goes unpowered. Starts reaction that drops some kind of object with a long decay like an ethereal type item (heck, call it Etheric Warning Signal) onto it's own square. It's immobile, it'll never move.

The one problem is in how to prevent the object from being picked up and brought to a stockpile or refuse area... I don't suppose it could spawn as forbidden? Could a pylon produce and fire a piece of ammo at it's own space? (I don't think that's possible at all btw. Though it would be perfect since ammo auto forbids once it's fired. The problem lies in giving it equipment to shoot it, etc. Forget it. Probably wouldn't work.)

Just bouncing ideas around here. If it's just annoying at this point I'll shut up.

[Meph]

shadowclasper: You are not annoying. You are trying to help. The problem is just that you try to suggest how to do thing, without the background knowledge to actually do so. The suggestions for new features are always good. So if you just say: Pylons should tell you somehow that they are unpowered/powered, thats ok. You dont need to type out a lot of text and assume things about the raws, which you dont know for sure. Just the suggestion itself is enough.

[mikael grey]

About the pylons, would it be possible that the control radious spreads through stone if the tile is DARK/INSIDE/UNDERGOUND and only work on Line of sight if its ABOVEGROUND/OUTSIDE? That would solve the 'underground pylon network' exploit. Not sure if thats even possible, just throwing an idea out there.

[Neri]

Just to clarify, are necromantic circles supposed to wreck themselves when the soul they were made with expires, much in the same way that things from the ethereal portal do?

[Meph]

About the pylons, would it be possible that the control radious spreads through stone if the tile is DARK/INSIDE/UNDERGOUND and only work on Line of sight if its ABOVEGROUND/OUTSIDE? That would solve the 'underground pylon network' exploit. Not sure if thats even possible, just throwing an idea out there.

no, thats not possible.

Just to clarify, are necromantic circles supposed to wreck themselves when the soul they were made with expires, much in the same way that things from the ethereal portal do?

yes. Use Phylacteries, if you want a stable build material.

[Meph]

Tomorrow I will have a look at a Herbalist. The evil drow plants and nether stuff needs something to do.

But I kicked the fountains of bone/blood/tears out. Makes no sense to add 3 workshops, just for 3 inorganics. I will add some summoning reactions to the abyss with these gems, tear/blood/bone of armok.

And skill learning for skeletons. thats also on the list.

EDIT: Somehow I think that this pic makes it a lot clearer. ^^

[Nuttycompa]

So you need gem to creat your pylon. While it is not that rare , I used to embark on land with absolute zero gems of anytype (right after I finished skyrim and want to arm my dwarf with a badass gemsword )
Suggestion, have some resction to create it, may be exchange some metal to gem via philosoper stone

[shadowclasper]

Why not have a reaction that turns blood into a gem? An incredibly low value gem maybe, but it'd be able for anybody to get it it?

edit: Also, um, and sorry for doing the whole 'suggesting a way of doing it' type thing. So just going to ask a question before continuing the idea. But if I remember correctly, animals and pets and things that are generally friendly to your civilization as a whole will have status icons flashing when certain effects are going on with them? (Hungry, sleeping, etc?) Not just your own dwarves (or dwarf equivalents). Specifically merchants can have the various madness icons, and pastured animals can get the hunger icon right?

[kamikazi1231]

I like the pylon idea.  I tend to build my up/down stairs in a 3x3 pattern with the middle tile being simply mined out.  Let's me in dwarf mode put statues or Armoks ward there.  I figure it'd be a great place to put a pylon every five levels or so to control my whole tower.

[shadowclasper]

Okay, did some research and double checked in the Modding little questions thread (and I intend to use it myself for something later once I can get DF onto my proper computer).

Alright, so using a syndrome with the CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION interaction token. You can in give a creature a syndrome that will give them the MATERIAL_EMISSION Token. Specifically it can give them the UNDIRECTED_VAPOR or UNDIRECTED_GAS tokens. And when the syndrome is removed, it'll lose the the interaction, and thus stop breathing out vapor or gas or whatever.

This way we can have it so an Unpowered Pylon will gain a syndrome that causes it to produce clouds of some kind of gas or vapor that doesn't leave behind any residue. This'll create a big old honking sign to the player that one of their pylons isn't working properly, and they'll be able to rectify that immediately.

I seem to recall you saying that with DFHack you could set up scripts and autosyndromes right? So could you do that in this case? When a Pylon goes unpowered you can hit it with the syndrome, and when it becomes powered, you can cure it right?

assuming this all would work, you can just create some material that isn't otherwise present or used anywhere else with a low boiling point relative to normal temperature and have it form the vapor or mist. I'm not sure, but I recall reading on the wiki that if you give it a material to be a vapor or gas, it'll heat it up to the temperature necessary for that. So if we used blood or water or similar, it'd probably set loads of things on fire I'm guessing?

I hope this time I've actually contributed ^^;

[Boltgun]

I made skeletons opposed to life, and you need Warlocks to keep them under control now.   They are also no longer genderless, as this caused weird friendships and even marriages. They are now all male. Some of the warlock witches will still marry them, but hey, why not?

this gives a new meaning to "getting boned"!

I am late to the battle, but did you try NO_GENDER ?