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[fricy]

RE: Pitchforks - while at first glance they seem to fit the theme, on second thought these are the weapons that are usually wielded by the peasants in horror movies when they want to kill the evil scientists/wizards/etc. Maybe something more fitting would be more appropriate? Just a thought.

I think they're supposed to be like the devil pitchforks.

I guess, I didn't consider that. Ok, I'm sold.

[Meph]

I know all discworld novels, but I cant do procedually generated bodyparts, nor change bodyparts on a creature, nor do I want to add more creatures with different graphics to the civ. For each one I add, I have to give 6 points in natural skills for 1 civilians skill and 1 combat skill, to each caste.

I wouldnt know how to add them. The same goes for Dungeon Keeper Imps. Or Overlord Minions. Would love to have them. But what should they do? They are pointless as fighters, and would just be farmed for meat.

[shadowclasper]

Sorry, I thought you said they didn't work because they got cleaned up, What I was suggesting was that whatever spawns them spawns the contaminants at regular intervals so even if it gets cleaned up the sources of it will be refilled regularly.

[mahrgell]

And your entire population never runs out of work, because they will never do anything else but cleaning.

[Meph]

Exactly.

[shadowclasper]

Ah, gotcha. And having cleaning disabled is probably going to cause more harm than good given how syndrom causing contaminents from forgotten beast work...

Well, if you don't mind me putting this in here, and it might solve our problems with skills not rising properly... so bear with me here.

What if there was a different caste for each kind of profession we want? Can you set the learning rate for some professions in a caste to 0% and raise that learning rate for others? So one caste might have only, for example, smithing labors. They can be enabled for other types of labors, but they'll never gain any skill in anything not related to smithing stuff.

So we have the following jobs.

Miner/Stoneworker: Combining these two. Perhaps skeletons? They're used for construction and shit and making crude stone objects? Though I'd put engraving with the crafter group.

Woodworker: No idea.

Ranger: Ghouls I think.

Doctor: Igores or Warlocks.

Farmer: No idea. Some kind of fungal being perhaps?

Fishery Worker: Deep Ones?

Metalsmith: Some kind of fire demon?

Jeweler: Maybe mix with stoneworker/miner? That or make it a Warlock profession involving turning gems into magical foci or something?

Crafter: No idea. Generalized minion?

Engineer: Gremlins/Minions? I dunno for this one.

Anyway. If you can set it up so that a caste can only gain skill in certain jobs or can only take certain labors, this might work. Skeletons could be set up as a general 'stop gap' group until you can attract members of the other castes. Without the ability to gain skill in anything, they'll never get their sprite changed over to the relevant laborer type right? (or is it triggered when the labor they do remains what they do, even when they're unskilled at it?)

That way we could have a vareity of races I guess. It'd just be an expansion on the differences between Ghoul and Skeleton at the end of the day?

Personally I'm still in favor of just skeletons and using them as tools. Additional castes might be cool, but ehn... I still think having a multitude of skeletons is pretty badass if they can be made to gain skill levels as something you craft onto them with a reaction rather than something they can learn naturally.

[Meph]

shadowclasper, sometimes I think you are never actually reading what is being written. I stated at least 5 times in this thread, and just 2 posts ago (!!!) again, that I cant do that.

nor do I want to add more creatures with different graphics to the civ. For each one I add, I have to give 6 points in natural skills for 1 civilians skill and 1 combat skill, to each caste.

You just suggested that I add a multitude of castes that require different graphics, like deep ones, minions, gremlins, etc.

[Meph]

Dev Log - Day 16

I added all buildmats to the manual. I added the chemist, a building that can make acid, clean rust, make oil and create a new trapcomp: an acid disperser loaded with acid flasks. They are usually non-lethal, but soften up the target and slow it down.

And pylons. I tried to give a reasonable explanation down below, but if anyone can come up with a simpler way of describing it, feel free to write a better text. Essentially you have to build a network of crystals to keep controling your undead servants.



How is that for nerfing too powerful undeads?

[LMeire]

Do Pylons work across z-levels?

[Nuttycompa]

Will/can warlock-pylon radius apply through z-level?
Is that mean I can have my warlock chilling at his 15th floor penhouse while the pylon at the ground floor doing the control?
Will there be some in game warning sign that show us which skel is out of range, like some blinking "?"

[shadowclasper]

shadowclasper, sometimes I think you are never actually reading what is being written. I stated at least 5 times in this thread, and just 2 posts ago (!!!) again, that I cant do that.

nor do I want to add more creatures with different graphics to the civ. For each one I add, I have to give 6 points in natural skills for 1 civilians skill and 1 combat skill, to each caste.

You just suggested that I add a multitude of castes that require different graphics, like deep ones, minions, gremlins, etc.

arrrrrg.... that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying the distinction would be made the same as the ghouls and warlocks are from the skeletons if it was done at all. You'd set it up so that certain labors were only possible with certain castes. It's exactly what you've done with the Ghouls and Warlocks right now. Separate castes, with separate graphics, because they have separate labors and skills. I did read about not being able to make different graphics for different castes, and strictly that is true. But you can also bridge that gap (because you obviously already have) like how you did with ghouls and skeletons. Just like how you'll never have a skeleton or warlock lasher, only ghouls, so you'll never really have to worry about anybody but a ghoul appearing as a lasher.

I know I make mistakes in suggesting stuff or misunderstanding, but this at least I understand :S I'm sorry for the confusion I'm causing.

[zach123b]

the last paragraph in the picture states pylons can go over z levels while warlocks are line of sight

[Meph]

Is that mean I can have my warlock chilling at his 15th floor penhouse while the pylon at the ground floor doing the control?
Will there be some in game warning sign that show us which skel is out of range, like some blinking "?"

Yes, you can have a warlock with a pylon in sight in your penthouse, and a pylon at the bottom. If its within 30 tiles of penthouse-pylon, it will power the pylon downstairs.

The blinking signs: I'd love to. But yet again DF has a silly hurdle: You can only add them. Not remove them. I can make them blink for a short time, as soon as they get unpowered. But if I make them blink when they get unpowered, they will not stop blinking if they get powered. Display name is the same. I wanted to do "pylon (powered)" and "pylon (unpowered)", but I can only add those, not remove them. And they dont overwrite each other, so once it has a display name, thats it. No changes possible. Its maddening.

shadowclasper: Ghouls and Warlocks and Skeletons work, because they all have natural skills. Ghouls have 6 points in wrestling and butchery. both rather pointless. Warlocks have 6 points in Praying and Pike (you have no pikes). So again, both rather useless. Skeletons have 6 points in mining, and I didnt give them a combat skill yet. But they will get 6 points in a weapon skill. Probably blowgun/crossbow, because you cant make those. This is seriously OP already. For each caste I add, I have to do the same. If I add igors, deep ones, gremlins and minions, that another 48 skill points for free.

I have to use 6 points in civilian and soldier professions, to overwrite the max 5 points you can give at embark.

[mahrgell]

Hm... about the pylons...
3 things:

a) I would suggest to make control radius and power radius the same. Yes this leads to double coverage for most areas, but in return simplifies the system, imho. But maybe this is just my personal preference But it is imho much simpler, if you just say, the pylon powers everything (other pylon/skel) in that one radius
b) is it really a sphere? or a cube? So is really only one tile controlled on z+-15?
c) Those pylons are destructible? Because right now I just see everyone to build a pylon network 5 z levels below ground. Then no enemy will ever reach those and skels can fight on the surface without any issues.
If you want to make those pylons valuable and force the player to take care of his pylons (or at least invest a bit more in them by walling each of them in) you could (it it is possible) make them only transferring power/control on their zlevel and add a second type called transfer pylon that can not control skels, but power other pylons across zlevels. If you follow a), you could give those transfer pylons a longer range, but keep the control pylons at a range of 20 or something alike.
This would require control pylons on every level, where skels stay for longer times. No need for it in stairways, as they pass through those fairly quick anyway.

[shadowclasper]

Okay okay, sorry. Forget it then.

I don't suppose a transformation would work? Rather than blinking you transform them between two states? Don't Pylons have to undergo a transformation in the first place once they're made in order to get them to do stuff? I recall that earlier on.

What if they start off as unpowered, and under go a transformation if a warlock is within the prerequisite distance? Becoming a powered pylon? Or is that what you mean by adding (Powered)/(Unpowered) to their name? Cause I thought a transformation was a total reset for the creature? Changing it completely?