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[ThaMuzz]

Breeding Pits:
- Convert Changling to Broodmother: Uses warpstone and a slave item, causes changlings caught in area to become basic Broodmother/lords.
- Transform to (Race) Broodmother: Uses warpstone and a (race) slave item, causes Broodmothers (not lords) to turn into a (Race) Broodmother.
- Perform Vile Experiment: Uses warpstone, several slave items and several Vile Reagents.  Chance to cause Broodmother to transform into some variety of Vile Broodmother, which produce strange offspring.  High risk, as offspring can turn on fortress.
- Perform Demonic Experiment: Uses warpstone, several slave items and Demon Reagents.  Demonic Broodmothers produce dangerous but powerful pets.
- Perform Necrotic Experiments:  Uses warpstone, several skeletal cysts and Magical Reagents.  Necrotic Broodmothers produce undead offspring.

Summoning Circle:
- Summon (Demon): Can produce either subdued demon of the desired type, or spawn a demon like the Colosseum.
- Subdue (Demon): Takes a corpse dropped by a hostile demon, produces a demon shard.

Demonologist Hall:
- Consort with (Demon): Sort of like Tavern or Public speaker, different demon types produce different results.  Succubus might remove bad thoughts, Pit Lord might provide strength, ect.
- Extract Shard: Consumes subdued (Demon), produces (Demon) shard.  Useful elsewhere.
- Process (Demon): Produces Demonic and Vile Reagents.

Reagent Category Suggestions:
- Magical: Phylacteries, magical books, magical rods, crystals, ect.
- Vile: Stuff like blood, pus, biles, ect.  Harvested and refined from various Changling breeds.  Possible foodsource?
- Soul: Harvested from sacrificed slaves.
- Demonic: Gained by butchering subdued demons.  Furs, hearts, claws, ect.

[Meph]

I like these idea a lot. Some of them are not possible, or only possible in a slightly changed way (for example civ members will all be skeletons, or warlock-nobles, nothing else), but the overall theme is quite fitting.

I also want to add dark humor, not just "omg, I am so evil stuff", because among mermaid farms and dwarven childcare, DF cant get any more evil anyway. A "summon horned reaper" easter egg, Jack'o'Lantern helmets for your skeletons, a creature that likes to be in the torture chamber, things like that.

[Remuthra]

Warlocks are basically Dungeon Keepers?

[ThaMuzz]

Warlocks are basically Dungeon Keepers?

I was about to say that, you bastard!

As for everything being skeletons:  What happens when you import a broodmother to an Orc fortress?  Do the slaves it produces use Orc or Dwarf sprites?
Also: Can syndroms be used to force members of particular castes to drop altered corpses when they die?  Or would you have to make them turn into a different caste, which would drop that special corpse?  Could be a way for the tower master to convert invaders into slave objects.

[Meph]

Broodmothers in their current form produce dwarves. It was a workaround , a fancy one at that, to get new civ members. The townportal makes this obsolete. I think I will remove them from appearing naturally (they are from a time, when dwarves were the only playable race) and will make a custom reaction to create them in the Warlock Dungeon.

If people claim that Orcs are influenced by Warhammer, then I guess the same people will say that the Warlocks will feel influenced by Dungeon Keeper. I love that game, and I am sure that I will include at least a few references to it. But otherwise the Warlocks will be a wild mix of evil stuff.

[ThaMuzz]

Broodmothers in their current form produce dwarves. It was a workaround , a fancy one at that, to get new civ members. The townportal makes this obsolete. I think I will remove them from appearing naturally (they are from a time, when dwarves were the only playable race) and will make a custom reaction to create them in the Warlock Dungeon.

If people claim that Orcs are influenced by Warhammer, then I guess the same people will say that the Warlocks will feel influenced by Dungeon Keeper. I love that game, and I am sure that I will include at least a few references to it. But otherwise the Warlocks will be a wild mix of evil stuff.

Perhaps I should clarify: I was wondering if broodmothers and town portal like reactions could be a workaround on the sprite issue.
As for removing the Broodmothers from Dwarf: please don't!  The Rendermax fortress got a Lich in an early migration wave, and I had ever so much fun turning that place into a pit of evil.  Had slaves, bound demons and forgotten beasts.  Then I created an arcane defender, imprisoned the Lich, butchered the Broodmothers and killed the demons.  Was good fun.
Although, making acquiring Broodmothers/lords require reactions might be better than having them be purchased.

As for influences: everything is influenced by something.  This is not a bad thing.

Oh, and since I haven't said it yet:  You are freaking amazing for creating all this stuff (Masterwork as a whole, I mean).

[Meph]

Thanks. Always appreciated.

I guess I can leave current broodmothers as a dark reaction something for evil dwarven mages. But they only work for dwarves, so getting broodmother in their current state as orcs or kobolds would be very odd.

I can make warlock specific broodmothers, not problem.

Perhaps I should clarify: I was wondering if broodmothers and town portal like reactions could be a workaround on the sprite issue.

Nope, not a chance. ^^

[Grimmash]

Chiming in to say I like the idea of very few nobles, and no real migrants.  If there are migrants, I think it should be acolytes of some shade, or a powerful necromancer lord that wants to usurp the current order.  I'm not sure how that would work out though. 

The idea of only having seven (or some starting embark size) of necros, but they don't need bodies was nifty idea someone else tossed out.  I imagine that working something like the temple of armok, but giving the resulting body a longer life span, or no set limit, and then having a slain necro drop a shard that requires the reaction again to reanimate?  That way you could have fortress death if all your necros are disembodied, and you have nothing left to reraise them with.  There could also be tiers of reaction, and you might have to kill the current embodiment of the necro to get its' soul item, and run the reaction again.  So if you want to upgrade, it requires sacrificing the current form and a period of danger for the new transformation to take place.

Not sure if this has been covered, but it might make sense to have skeletons or whatever have a shelf life, maybe a syndrome that causes random body parts to rot or disintegrate or something, so you need to engage sieges to replenish the undead slave hordes.  A sort of trade off for what I imagine will be rather shockingly powerful necromancers.

[Meph]

Shell life for skeletons: MAXAGE:10. Done.

The rest I am thinking about. I did the soul system for creatures today, hiding it under the guise of an improvement for dwarven religion... but we all know why I modded that in.

[udsuna]

Woo! Someone likes my upgraded siege system!


The upgrade-from-skele-to-nobles thing sounds interesting. Although I think there should be a sort of upgrade system so eventually you can control a larger number of warlocks. You may start out as a small cluster of outcasts, but you should have the ability to slowly grow in power and fame, attracting other 'locks to your evil wizards' college.


Question- if you can't control the body drop based upon death, can you randomly create different possible corpses that a single creature could drop? So instead of a corpse, you occasionally get a prisoner.

[ThaMuzz]

So, new idea for the slave system:
Broodmothers produce pet creatures.  These creatures can be processed into slaves (either by butchery or via some syndrome that kills them and makes them drop a slave item).
There could be a set of specialty slave workshops, like Slave Furniture Shop or Slave Greateforge, ect.
The tasks in these shops would be governed by some slavemaster skill, either a single master skill or several specialty skills.
These reactions take some number of slave tools, each of which may or may not be consumed, and whatever materials are appropriate for what is being produced.
These reactions are useful for bulk production, and have a variable chance to spawn rebellious slaves.

I would suggest adding another type of appointed noble/caste: Slavemaster.  I'm torn as to whether there should be more than one, recalling the idea of the harassed leader.  Perhaps the number could be based on fortress size?

Slave Hall:
- Prepare Slaves: Produces a syndrome that kills slave pets and makes them drop slave items, based on species (if possible.  Otherwise, butchery)
- Train Slaves in (Skill): Takes a few slaves (some are lost as motivation), journals and appropriate equipment for skill.  Produces 1-2 (Skilled) Slave item.  Very small chance small of revolt.
- Train War Thralls: Takes several slaves, journals and equipment.  Produces handful of War Thrall items.  Moderate chance of small revolt of armed slave creatures.

Slave Forge: If non-generic Slavedriver skill, something like Forgemaster
Slave forge would be used for batch producing large amounts of metal weapons and armor.
Basic equipment would require any slave, and have a very small chance of revolt.
Using better metals or producing better equipment would require Forge Slaves.  Still low chance of revolt, but units spawned might have

Slave Furniture Shop:
Mass produce furniture.

ect.

War Thrall Pit:
- Deploy War Thrall: Consumes a War Thrall item, creates a pet that can be war trained and assigned.  Small chance of rebellion.
- Battle Slaves for Sport: Consumes several War Thrall items, spawns a rebellion for you to crush.

Torture Pit:
All torture pit reactions have a small chance of producing a Loyal or Fanatical slave instead of the expected outcome.
- Torture Captured (Race): Takes a (Race) Captured Slave, produces a (Race) Docile Slave.
- Prepare (Special) Slave: Takes slave items, produce special slaves.

Slave Item Types:
- Docile Slave: Basic Slave, spawned by Broodmothers
- Captured Slave: Slave captured as a result of raiding.
- (Skilled) Slave: A Slave that has been trained in a skill.
- War Thrall: A Slave that has been trained to for war.
- Loyal: A Slave that wants to serve.  Useful in certain reactions.
- Fanatical: A Slave that really wants to serve.  Useful when sacrificed.

Slave Materials:
- (Race): Human, Dwarf, Orc, Kobold, Elf, ect.  Some reactions demand slaves of a particular race.
- (Skill): Supersedes (Race).  Used in advanced slave industry.
- (Special):  Wracked, Virginal, Deranged, ect.  Useful in certain advanced reactions.  Some (Specialty) slaves might produce better souls when sacrificed, some might be needed to summon advanced demons, ect.  Diseased Slaves could be released back to races to weaken them.

[Meph]

No, it can only be one corpse type per creature. Except if you kill them with interactions (transform creature into a different creature which dies and leaves its unique corpse), but I dont like that system.

I would rather add more and more spells to a few warlocks, then make more warlocks. This way you have these uber-powerful sorcerers, but do you really want to use them in combat? What if one dies? You have to convert a new skeleton to a warlock and start learning spells again. I think thats more interesting from a balancing perspective.

The siege/kidnapping system got a nice upgrade by McTeellox: The Probability-Syndrome script. Previously I could only add dfhack scripts with YES/NO to reactions. Now I can say: 0-100% chance. That allows a lot more balancing. For example kidnap from farmstead, I have a 50% chace for a kidnapped dude and a 5% chance that it causes a siege or ambush.

[Meph]

I wont be doing slaves. Torture chamber, yeah. Thralls, maybe. (Probably ) But slaves, no. Makes no sense for Warlocks that control the undead to have unrelyable meatbags running around that must be guarded, fed and watered. Undead are more efficient. Besides, drow and goblins use slaves a lot.

[ThaMuzz]

I wont be doing slaves. Torture chamber, yeah. Thralls, maybe. (Probably ) But slaves, no. Makes no sense for Warlocks that control the undead to have unrelyable meatbags running around that must be guarded, fed and watered. Undead are more efficient. Besides, drow and goblins use slaves a lot.

Awwwww
I imagined that the skeletons would be largely mindless to start off.  Useful for grunt labor like mining, hauling and basic combat, but unable to really advance in other areas.  Slaves and slavemasters would fill in the gaps, as it were.

[Remuthra]

...

That almost suggests that drow and/or goblins will be playable at some point in the future.