Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dwarf4Explosives]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

About the dwarven culture act, isn't it more of a labour proposal, as we're going to build something, and there won't be punishments for anything or anything like that?
Wouldn't change the outcome (at least not at this rate), I just thought, what exactly will I put in the law section for it when(if) it goes through, the specific items which represent specific things?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You're quite right. I guess I should have named it differently. I suppose the law section should simply mention the "rules" for it, as you've said:artifacts represent, well, themselves, whips represent sieges, swords represent snatchers, slabs the death of important members of the fort and mechanisms/similar represent megaprojects.

Do not humble yourself unduly Cain. Your work is inspiring.

[TeleDwarf]

So, the revised and final version of my proposed law, rewritten slightly to lay the concerns of other Council Members to rest:

The Dwarven Culture Act:
A long hallway shall be dedicated to historical events. (Important/valuable) artifacts shall be put behind glass walls. Sieges shall be marked with a single whip, snatchers with a sword (again, behind glass). Important dwarven historical figures shall also have a slab here. Large engineering projects shall be marked with either miniaturized versions, or small lava or water circulation systems if these are deemed to unwieldy to miniaturize. This hallway will present these items in chronological order. Unruly dwarves will be sent into this hallway to have the importance of obeying their tasks impressed upon them (i.e. dwarves that throw tantrums will be sent in here to cheer them up).

Rhetoric:

A lot of different stuff I have to consider, given my current position. Sometimes even the wisest dwarf can make a mistake. But the true wisdom manifest itself not by avoiding mistakes, but by fixing them. And for that any true noble has friends, who can show  him what gone wrong and how to fix that.

After all due consideration I have to agree with noble Kerod and stand against this folly. Our venerable king has sent us here not to build a dead museum, but to create a living society. Our traditions, our values and our strength must be our museum. No matter how lavish burial rituals are, or how many artifacts we entomb in some useless barn, if we will not survive and flourish - we will fail our mission and let down our king. And that is not something we can afford.

Despite our minimal success so far, we are at a danger of complete ruin. Yes, we were lucky so far to have only five-gob squads attacking us. But what if the next suad will be 10 goblins? And what if all of them will be lashers or crossbowgobs? You surely remember how one crossbowgob crippled half of our fortress, even being severely outnumbered. What if the next visitor will happen to be a long forgotten beast with deadly poison, or a fully-grown dragon?

We must think forward, not backward. We must protect the living before over-pleasing the dead. How good will be those lavish tombs, if for creation of those we will have to deconstruct the hospital? How good will all those artifacts and other museum items be, if our dwarves will be slaughtered and their blood will be sprayed on the very glass, that protects an artifact axe or shield?

I hereby have to re-vote on museum issue. Revisited or not, but it is way to expensive to even consider this before we have everything we need for our extended survival.

The Dwarven Culture Act:
For:2
Against: 3

[FireCrazy]

OOC:
Since neblime and my dwarf are lovers so basically neblime convinced my dwarf to change his vote:

IC:
Neblime Inkydances (+10) Proposes a law (The dignified Burial act)

For: 4
Against: 1

[Hahayeah]

So it seems the museum will never exist unless we get our defenses up and rolling and later construct the museum. The burial plan will possibly be made and we shall have equal burial for all. Meanwhile Cain will be acclaimed for his good deeds.

[TeleDwarf]

Seeing as The dignified Burial act goes, we might gather proposals of burial designs that comply with the proposed law. The way I see it we will have to use 4(floor+up stair)+4(ceiling+down stair)+12(walls) stone blocks for each tomb. Am I correct?

[Cain12]

Seeing as The dignified Burial act goes, we might gather proposals of burial designs that comply with the proposed law. The way I see it we will have to use 4(floor+up stair)+4(ceiling+down stair)+12(walls) stone blocks for each tomb. Am I correct?

OOC
I think you are.
Sounds rather wasteful, unless it was for a noble or actual notable dwarf.

[TeleDwarf]

Sounds rather wasteful, unless it was for a noble or actual notable dwarf.

That may be, but as the loyal servants of the council we have to do what we can to fulfill the sacred decisions of the senators. The republican traditions should go far before any considerations of efficiency, economy or personal rivalry.

[Hahayeah]

Like neblime said, When we die even a soul of an emperor would be the same as a soul of a goblin low-life scum. Everyone deserves an equal grave no better than the other.

[Dwarf4Explosives]

While we wait for the votes to be concluded, what are the limitations we have imposed upon weapon devices? Even a simple balista hallway (or even just one or two balista) could do wonders for our fort security, especially if dwarves are in the appropriate rooms (and thanks to the wonders of lockable doors, only this room) in shifts, relieving each other of duty periodically.

[TeleDwarf]

Like neblime said, When we die even a soul of an emperor would be the same as a soul of a goblin low-life scum. Everyone deserves an equal grave no better than the other.

I am surprised by your optimism, as peasants are in fact the most injured party if this act succeeds.
I however understand that you are not of gentle birth and may be unfamiliar with the noble art of bookkeeping and management, so let me explain the implications:
Council approval of this law will mean that we need to rebury 5 previously buried dwarves, as well as 2 fresh corpses. That will require about 140 blocks of stone, most of which will be taken from the hospital(well, maybe a bit less due to shared walls.). The overall strain on our productive resources will most assuredly slow down other construction projects, like peasant homes and, more importantly, defensive fortifications. The lack of later will undeniably increase the death rate among peasantry(Your nephew and your brother come to mind), and therefore increase strain even further.
You should also note that "The dignified Burial act" is voted well before the "The dignified dwelling act" or any similar law. While it would be possible to rebury dead peasants with more dignity at later date - no one will be able to amend them their lives spend in the mud.

OOC:

While we wait for the votes to be concluded, what are the limitations we have imposed upon weapon devices? Even a simple balista hallway (or even just one or two balista) could do wonders for our fort security, especially if dwarves are in the appropriate rooms (and thanks to the wonders of lockable doors, only this room) in shifts, relieving each other of duty periodically.

we were discussing the fortifications limitations somewhere before in this thread. I think those cover weapon devices too: we are opposed to the exploitation of AI pathfinding, DF bugs, shortcuts and limitations(goblins being unable to scale a short wall, blind charge into the shredder every single time and same such), but we are willing to have realistic defensive designs, if their effectiveness is outweighed by their complexity and cost.

[Dwarf4Explosives]

Dwarf4explosive (+10) proposes a construction plan (the Ballista Gate Project)

The Ballista Gate Project:
The construction of two 4x5 rooms at every entry point to our fortress. These rooms will be offset by one tile, although they will share a single design:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

WWFWW
WB b fW
WD f SW
WT f sW
WWDWW

W = wall
F  = fortification
B  = bed
b  = ballista (constructed from the best parts available)
f   = floor
D  = point to drop in food and extra bolts from above
S  = stockpile for ballista bolts
T  = table
s   = seat
D  = wall

In each room, a single dwarf will be sent. Every half-month these dwarves will be relieved of their duty and replaced by another.


Dwarf4explosive (+10) proposes a law (The Dignified Housing act)

As mentioned by TeleDwarf, one of our noble founders and a fellow Member of the Council, the attention to proper provisions after death has been much greater than that devoted to proper dwellings in life. To remedy this, I propose the following:
The Dignified Housing Act:
Every peasant dwarf must have a 4x4 house or room, containing all of the following: a bed, a statue and a door.

[Hahayeah]

What about soldier dwarves, Council dwarves?

[TeleDwarf]

The Ballista Gate Project:
Opposed.
1. We do not have any fortress yet.
2. There is no feasible way to severely limit entry points to any large area.
3. There is definitely not enough stone to carry out this and The Dignified Burial Act.
4. Given the cone of ballistae fire - operators are likely to kill each other.
5. Plan need to be greatly improved and be more readable (that is a 3x3 room, containg a 3x3 ballista + other stuff, while table and chair are separated by a floor. o_O)

For: 1
Against:1

The Dignified Housing act
Opposed for same reasons as Barracks construction and The Dignified Burial Act. Our economy is not strong enough to perform such massive project(we are talking about at least 20 new houses).
Furthermore, there is no way we can enforce both this and The Dignified Burial Act at the same time (severe labor shortage imminent).
For: 1
Against:1

OOC:
Hahayeah, and you wanted to advance time...

[Cain12]

Like neblime said, When we die even a soul of an emperor would be the same as a soul of a goblin low-life scum. Everyone deserves an equal grave no better than the other.

IC
I contest that.
We are our actions, they define us, make us who we are, shape our soul if you will, they will continue to do so long after death, comparing a goblin's soul and an emperor's soul is foolishness.
Also just so it is known, my wife will remain in the ground where she was buried, defile her resting place at your own risk.

Dwarf4explosive (+10) proposes a construction plan (the Ballista Gate Project)

I am not opposed to the plan itself, it is structurally sound if not efficient, but as the royal liaison said we can not support it the now.
Same for the housing act, should be giving priority to the living not the dead, but since you chose the dead.

For:1
Against: 2
OOC
We are just setting the bare minimum for tombs right? Because the "no better" statement made me doubt this.

Nothing against the plan personally, just don't think it is worth the effort it would take to make and keep stocked.

[Hahayeah]

The ballista gate project
For:1
Against:3
No mines = No stone = No resources to build it. Also, I don't believe we have any siege operators currently. If we do then they're highly inexperienced and could possibly accidently launch a ballista arrow at a dwarf, Killing the dwarf.
The Dignified Housing act
For:1
Against:3
Like teledwarf said,Not good enough economy and also not enough laborers. I wish i could make a plan to make a jewelry and a guild hall of crafting to improve our economy but like teledwarf said we already have a lot of debates and we can't handle all of these plans at the same time.
OOC:
Actually, I'd rather see all the votes done and then worry about advancing time. Sorry for my impatience.