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[WanderingKid]

Hey guys, I'm looking for input on a tutorial series for DF I'm thinking of creating.

No offense to CaptnDuck (he got me out of noobieville, after all) but his videos are rather rambling.  I'm debating on creating a DF HowTo: series, with each video, at most, 5 minutes long.  Deeper dives may be possible later, but the idea is to have a tutorial series that drives directly into whatever someone has a question on quickly, directly, and efficiently.

To that end, below is what I'm thinking of as the starting list.  I realize these are mostly newbie concepts, and am wondering what other topics, or things they'd like to have a video to point newbies at easily, you guys would have in mind?  Also, if you just think this is a horrible idea, that's worthy of mentioning too... but I'd like to hear your reasons why if that's your opinion.

1)   Getting Started
     Embark Terrain Selection
     Embark Equipment and Skills
     Arrival - First move overview
2)   Initial tasks
     Starting controls: Moving around the screen and Inspec(t), Loo(k), (q)uery, and (v)iew.
     Digging - How and what the different options do
     Designations - What the rest of the choices are for.
     Stockpiles - Simple.  Wood, Stone, Food.
     Farming - Plot and stockpile setup.
     Primitive early defense methods
3)   Workshops
     Build Menu and Options: Concentration on Workshops
     Starters: Carpenter and Mason workshops - What you'll want early and what the options mean.
              Cycle of Life: Hunters, Butchers, Tanners, and Leathermaker - Early food and prepping the first industries
     Supplies: Kitchen and Still for necessities, Craftdwarf's to begin prepping for trade
     Eventually wanted: Mechanic, Farmer's/Loom/Clothmakers, Bowyer's
     Useful: Quern and Millstone
     Soap: Ashery and Soap Maker's
     Extras: Jewelers, Siege, Fishery, Dyer's
     Furnaces
     Forges
4)   Military (Work in Progress)
   Overview of the military - Uniforms are definitions for armor/weapons aka: types of units
   What the hell is a uniform?
   Creating, uniforming, and assigning members for a squad
   Squad command options
   Burrows - Just that.  They are simple yet rediculously complex
   Alerts - Using them for immediate deployment of troops to particular burrows, and the civilian alert
   Scheduling - How to properly argue with the screen to make it do what you want.
   Patrol Routes
5)   Trading
   The broker - What is needed, what you can care less about
   The Depot - Depot Access, what the commands mean
   Trade Screen - What is all this?

[smjjames]

I actually didn't use the videos myself (at least I don't think I did, it was a long time ago since I was a noob) and I learned mainly from reading the wiki, through experience and asking on the forums. Though if you want to make another video tutorial series, then sure.

Just remember to add subtitles or text if you're going to use speech since I'm sure there are plenty of hard of hearing and deaf people who play DF, although I don't know of anybody besides myself on these forums that are hard of hearing or deaf.

Unless you want to make one for this version as well, maybe hold off until the next version is released? Most of the basic stuff will be unchanged and it's just the concepts that you're doing.

[EvilBob22]

I learned a long time ago from the wiki (before there were any videos).  But, if you are willing to give it a shot, I say go for it!  More newbie advice is a good thing.

One thing I would change in your outline: you have butcher in your basic workshops, and tanner/leatherworker in the later ones.  In my mind, they are basic: butcher/tanner, and later: leatherworker.  That way you don't lose the leather from the first animals butchered.  If you leave out the workshops to create my own picks/weapons, tanner is always in my first 4 workshops built (unless I want to keep the wagon pullers around).

[WanderingKid]

Just remember to add subtitles or text if you're going to use speech since I'm sure there are plenty of hard of hearing and deaf people who play DF, although I don't know of anybody besides myself on these forums that are hard of hearing or deaf.

Good call.  Annoying to transcript each episode but it certainly would make sure I could reach a larger audience.

Unless you want to make one for this version as well, maybe hold off until the next version is released? Most of the basic stuff will be unchanged and it's just the concepts that you're doing.

Well, I've been holding off on it (and using FurnaceClans as my playground to learn techniques) waiting for the next version, but it's certainly taking its sweet time getting here.

One thing I would change in your outline: you have butcher in your basic workshops, and tanner/leatherworker in the later ones.  In my mind, they are basic: butcher/tanner, and later: leatherworker.  That way you don't lose the leather from the first animals butchered.  If you leave out the workshops to create my own picks/weapons, tanner is always in my first 4 workshops built (unless I want to keep the wagon pullers around).

I could see that, but from my personal experience a few missing skins won't make or break a fort that isn't doing a challenge anyway.  I'm 50/50 about it, I had it that way at first too until I thought about overwhelming the time expectations for each.  I may break it up a bit though, so that's certainly an idea.

[neblime]

well I guess I should perpetuate the trend by saying I didnt use videos either, but i'm sure some people find them helpful.  in retrospect, maybe I would have, given you can listen to it in the background with df open.  I reckon go for it

[itg]

I definitely would have used videos if there had been a high-quality set out at the time. No offense meant, but a few minutes of CaptnDuck's 1st video and I was out looking for a written guide. The most important thing to me would be that the video is concise and to the point. I'd encourage you to edit out anything that isn't absolutely necessary.

I support your original organization on butcher/tanner/leatherworker, by the way. The best way for a new fort to get leather is from the caravan, anyway, and it's ridiculously cheap.

[Finn]

You might add somewhere a section on the d_init file, population_cap, baby_cap, etc.

[CreamyDoughnut]

Concise is definitely something needed in the tutorial vids. A five minute overview of the purpose, the practical effect, and relationships a particular facet of the game has would be excellent.

When I find started 5ippycup and Captnduck were the vids I used, both got me going but they felt a bit broad when I tend to like something quick, concise, and spend most of my faq time on the wiki.

I think the trouble you'll have is actually making some elements concise. Things like the military page took me a while to fully understand. As did fortifications and trading. Military especially is an important aspect of the game that I feel could have it's very own tutorial series explaining how to make a good defense, understanding the battleground, and managing the patrols- it's a very broad subject.

[WanderingKid]

You might add somewhere a section on the d_init file, population_cap, baby_cap, etc.

Noted.  I intend to use the LNP as a baseline for new players though, so I'll probably explain the interface to that instead of the .ini's...

I think the trouble you'll have is actually making some elements concise. Things like the military page took me a while to fully understand. As did fortifications and trading. Military especially is an important aspect of the game that I feel could have it's very own tutorial series explaining how to make a good defense, understanding the battleground, and managing the patrols- it's a very broad subject.

I agree, and I expect some of these videos to get feedback of "Dude, seriously?!" with hopefully a few pointers as to where I go wandering off.

Military... needs its own section, I agree.  Concise components for each particular aspect of how the UI works.  I'll contemplate that for a while.

[WoobMonkey]

There are already a bazillion newbie tutorials, all over YTube and Twitch.

And most of them are completely stupid, incomplete, or downright wrong.

IMHO, what is needed is less of a 'how to start' tutorial, and more of 'how to start with a major goal in mind' sort of tutorial.

For example: if one plans to use minecart QSPs, it's best to plan for them before even starting digging.  If one is aiming to embark on a dangerous map (haunted/terrifying), is it more important to bring military to hold the surface, or to turtle up in a hurry, and rush the caverns?

I, personally, learned much more from watching through SnarlingUrn (CapnDuck) than from the DFVIDTUTS series'.  Andrakon's and your Single-Pick Challenge videos were more informative (and entertaining) than anything done by 5ippycup or RiotHouseLP.

I would suggest, instead of doing a straight up tutorial series, instead doing a few different embarks in different situations, and simply explaining what, and especially why you're doing what you're doing.

Also, bonus tutorial points for not wasting time with Dwarf Therapist; once I learned my way through the UI, I started finding it faster and easier to use than DT - and probably a little dwarfier.

If I were doing tutorials, I'd do one on a calm/mirthful biome, detailing the hunting/butchering/leatherworking/food processing industries.  I'd do another on a savage desert with a volcano, to show glassmaking, metalworking, and clay (as well as military, perhaps).  And, finally, a challenge embark - something like FurnaceClans, where the surface is lost from the start.

I recommend checking out Arumba07's 'Ideneral' fort; he's got a knack for explaining things that gets to the heart of the matter.  Sadly, he seems a little obsessed with DFHack and Quickfort, as opposed to DF itself; but still a good watch, if you're looking at how to do a tutorial in an informative, breezy, and fun way.

Just a couple more pennies for the pile.

[MaGicBush]

I think it's a great idea. When I first started playing I wished there was something other than capnducks videos. No offense to him, but I did not like his accent and he seemed to trail off a lot.

[Aslandus]

I got started without video guides, but I did use one with the LAzy newb pack (though I probably could've figured it out on my own), I assume furnaces and forges includes all of them, but there should be at least a basic guide to weapons and hunting, since those become very relevant for simple [trapavoid] creature countermeasures, especially against forgotten beasts

[Nyxalinth]

I used Capt duck's videos and they were a huge help.  I read all the tutorials and  the wiki but his videos made everything click for me.  people all learn in different ways.  Some people pick up DF through osmosis darn near, and are making megaprojects two days later, (my second ex-husband would have been one of these) some need multiple resources to make it all come together, and some fall in between.

[Rhyme]

I learnt by playing and using the wiki, but videos can be a good way to learn. I think that the subtitles would be a good idea not only because some people might have hearing problems, but because some people don't speak English well and have trouble with accents (this year I'm taking an exam after which I'm supposed to have a native level of English and I still have some problems with accents).

[WanderingKid]

For example: if one plans to use minecart QSPs, it's best to plan for them before even starting digging. 

Erm, I disagree. Minecart QSPs are easy enough to setup in any 3x3 area.  A 3x2 'grab' stockpile with 3 wheelbarrows, a 2 square track, and a QSP stockpile.  They're quite possibly one of the easiest things to do.  Building a running water waterfall and/or powered mist generator requires a lot more preparation and expectation than some QSPs.

Now, if you're talking about a minecart system to haul ores to magma, or magma elsewhere, that's a whole different story... and not necessarily what I think of when I consider QSPs.

If one is aiming to embark on a dangerous map (haunted/terrifying), is it more important to bring military to hold the surface, or to turtle up in a hurry, and rush the caverns?

You're getting into very advanced play there.  One of the biggest and most difficult things for new players to grasp in dwarf fortress is what are the options that are hiding underneath the menus. Sure, I *think* I know what channel does, but I wouldn't think to go mining under 'designation', I'd be looking for 'dig'.

By the time you get to the level of play you're talking about, DF is the kind of game that I more see as "I don't want you to show me, I want to go DO it!... but that's a nice tip, thanks.  I'll try that."

I would suggest, instead of doing a straight up tutorial series, instead doing a few different embarks in different situations, and simply explaining what, and especially why you're doing what you're doing.

Now, that could certainly be something to add on at the end.  Hrm...

Also, bonus tutorial points for not wasting time with Dwarf Therapist; once I learned my way through the UI, I started finding it faster and easier to use than DT - and probably a little dwarfier.

To hell with that.  I expect anyone who would follow my videos not to merely install LNP but to use the community tools.  I have abstolutely no damned reason to argue with any bad interface more than I have to.  If someone would write one up for military and scheduling I'd use that too.  I don't like roguelike menu systems, DF is the only game I will even accept it from.  I want a UI.  I work in IT and I know they're a pain in the ass to build well.  I don't care, when someone does it for me I'll happily use that.

I recommend checking out Arumba07's 'Ideneral' fort; he's got a knack for explaining things that gets to the heart of the matter.  Sadly, he seems a little obsessed with DFHack and Quickfort, as opposed to DF itself; but still a good watch, if you're looking at how to do a tutorial in an informative, breezy, and fun way.

I'll definately have to check that out, thanks for the recommendation.

there should be at least a basic guide to weapons and hunting, since those become very relevant for simple [trapavoid] creature countermeasures, especially against forgotten beasts

Good point.  FB's require military more than hunters, but against those damned monkeys... Considering I always start with a hunter you'd think I'd have remembered that.   I'll reorganize that a bit.  I'm still figuring out how I want to outline the military screens for an intelligent review.  Some of that's because I'm still not 100% on all of it.

I learnt by playing and using the wiki, but videos can be a good way to learn. I think that the subtitles would be a good idea not only because some people might have hearing problems, but because some people don't speak English well and have trouble with accents (this year I'm taking an exam after which I'm supposed to have a native level of English and I still have some problems with accents).

You're right, I just am going to cry about it.  Loudly.  Briefly but loudly.  Transcripting and then properly timing even 5 minutes of video is actually a lot of work.  It's not difficult, it's just incredibly time consuming.  I've been poking around in a few japanimation forums about it and seeing what options there are for auto-detection and there's not a lot, and youtube is rather specific about how you have to add it if you're going to use their built-in cc button (otherwise I'd have to produce two videos for each one if I used external components).  I'll try it out though for real instead of assuming the difficulty here eventually and see how it goes.